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Jujutsu Kaisen Calculations Revisions

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M3X

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Jujutsu Kaisen is getting a lot of attention, wich is good, The bad thing is that no staff member reads the manga, as far as I know. With that, it's easy to simply wank some feats to get really higher results, and wank the scaling toi scale creation to Attack Potency. I'll revise the calculations, and then the scaling.

Finger Bearer evaporates a cave

Let's start with the easy one. For context, the cave has a flat "roof", and after the blast, it became a half ellipsoid. It's easy to calculate this, however, the calcer made it difficult and got insanely higher results for something that couldn't be more than Tier 8. Let's start with the base. The calcer calculated it with an ellipsoid, but it's arbitrary. The left one is an image that @ShadowWhoWalks sent to me, the pixelscaling shows that a lot of circles can be done in that scan, with the orange one being the most consistent one, from the lookings of it. The image in the right side is the actual pixelscaling used, wich is obviously inconsistent with the image itself.
latest

NaSjUnG.png


The second flaw is the destruction method. He used vaporization with the justifications of "Steam and a smooth crater" these are actually his words. And you don't need to be a genius that this is not evidence for vaporization, even considering that the blast is a kinetic force. To quote @ShadowWhoWalks:

"Also, for the pulverization end, the omnidirectional blast of the Finger Bearer is actually a kinetic force.

0007-007.png


It is just a barrier of pure Cursed Energy, and while Cursed Energy has kinetic force it is not associated with burning. So the rocks getting crushed (which can produce smoke the floats for a while) after being pushed by the barrier is a much more reasonable conclusion."

So, the calc needs a correct pixelscaling and a new destruction method, wich is pulverization of rock.

Yuji goes through a wall Recalc

Ok, I've recalculated this one. Here is my recalc. The issue with the current one, is that for some reason (We pretty much know why...) he used the biggest chunk of rock to calculate the thickness, and if you look at the scan that he posted, the thickness isn't near 2 meters, it's actually really small. (Also, it makes me think.... how the chunks have different thickness if they are supposed to be the same). Anyway, I've calculated the thickness using a second scan moments after the blast.

This is all.


 
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Oh, pain. I knew this day would come

On the point about Finger's evaporation, that scale created by Shadow makes no sense. He assumes a line, but in my calculation I follow the line that the scan shows, thus showing a consistent size. And it makes no sense to consider this as an explosion of kinetic energy, the stones were literally pulverized/evaporated

I was told that "Possessing vapor, being of energy and the crater being smooth" is evidence of evaporation
Anyway, I've calculated the thickness using a second scan moments after the blast.
It is better to use the bigger one, because it is more reliable. A bigger piece can get smaller with fragmentation, but a smaller piece cannot get bigger.

EDIT: Today is a family member's birthday and tomorrow I have a test at school. So I won't be able to do much in this thread (And the calculations are mine so I think it's better to wait)
 
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M3X

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On the point about Finger's evaporation, that scale created by Shadow makes no sense. He assumes a line, but in my calculation I follow the line that the scan shows, thus showing a consistent size.
The orange and light blue line also follows the line of the circle, and they have a small and big size. This isn't difference from when you calculate a planet feat using planet curvature, you can make the line bigger, smaller or correct. And the orange one is the closest we have for a correct line.
And it makes no sense to consider this as an explosion of kinetic energy, the stones were literally pulverized/evaporated
Kinetic Energy can pulzerize stuff, but what Finger Bearer does is to create a pseudo blast with enough force to pulverize. I said that the method that should be used is pulverization, I don't know what's the issue here.
It is better to use the bigger one, because it is more reliable. A bigger piece can get smaller with fragmentation, but a smaller piece cannot get bigger.
Absolutely not. The thickness is just inconsistent with everything else, the other pieces and the actual thickness of the wall, after the feat.
 
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The wikia image will appear broken if you insert it as image without deleting whatever comes after .jpg or .png (and even then, it would appear in low resolution).

The image used is smaller + has thicker lines, other than that I don't see how it is unique.
Overall, it is less consistent and makes less sense as the Finger Bearer is standing away from the center of his omnidirectional kinetic blast/barrier, and the blast/barrier inexplicitly expands much further away off-screen on the sides and backwards, but only extends a bit forward (in the direction we can actually see).

And yes, kinetic force is able to crush/grind/pulverize rocks into dust or fine particles.
 
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I really want to help on this thread, considering that the calculations are mine. There is a problem wait until saturday? My test end tomorrow
 

M3X

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I don't really understand why people are so unsure about agreeing with the first calc. It has more wrong stuff than the second one. Weird.
 
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For what it's worth, the circle for the original calc is definitely off, it simply doesn't make any sense given with what we see, the fact it's a omnidirectional blast and that pixel scaling would put his ass at the very edge of something he should be the center in and basic perspective and depth.
Honestly something between the orange and gray circle would probably be the most accurate given the angle but orange looks to be the most accurate between them all.

Pulv or vaporization I have no idea on what's better given I'm not caught up but I don't see any actual vapor or anything resembling steam in the posted panels so...
 
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I don't really understand why people are so unsure about agreeing with the first calc. It has more wrong stuff than the second one. Weird.
It is because this calculation was discussed in the thread about the AP.
Out of curiosity, how does it get 300 views?

- About pixelscale

Screenshot_20210417-164035.png

This was mentioned from the last Jujutsu thread. The scale Shadow uses to disprove the size of the destruction makes no sense, it is not coherent and uses no logic. The original pixel scale uses the shape of the crater to determine the size, just as we do with the curvature of planets in several calculation on the site, we use the coherent scale that is shown. Literally Shadow just put lines in random positions in the scan

See the line of the calculation:
Screenshot_20210417-165411.png


Screenshot_20210417-165316.png


It is the same logic used here:
980.png

Or here:
768.png

These two pixel scales being accepted on the site

You can understand? It is a reasoning used in many calculations. If you use a consistent line in the image you will find the same size. There is nothing wrong with the scale

- About evaporation

The calculation showed white steam and a smooth crater. These are the requirements for evaporation. We use evaporation for the crater created by Netero simply because it shows steam, the crater is not even smooth. Also, "Shshshshs" scene is shown, indicating steam (Literally we accept a Berserk calculation to use evaporation because of this onomatopoeia)
Screenshot_20210417-170659.png
Screenshot_20210417-172102.png

About the explosion being of kinetic energy, I honestly still don't understand the logic. Just because an alternative weaker version pushed the opponent with energy doesn't mean that a more powerful version will follow the same logic, they are different curses
[SPOILER/]
 
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In other words, you are willing to accept this projection (which is almost identical to the orange line).

bT9rdsP.png


It is an incredibly weak argument to complain that the projections are a few pixels off the cut-off point (which isn't clear by the way, and up to interpretation):
  1. They fall under margin of error as they won't change the area by any significant amount
  2. They are EASILY adjusted by extending the ellipsoid a bit or repositioning it by a few pixels
Comparing projection of an ellipsoid to projecting a perfect circle out of a curvature is the epitome of false analogy. Not sure that it is worth elaborating further.

Also, if this was discussed, then the discussion was extremely brief, not concluded, and the problems were left unanswered. Didn't know my amateur art was that popular... Maybe I should go pro!


The amount of smoke is very small and inconsistent; basically indistinguishable from rocks crumbling. This is considered a good example of vaporization:
Zangetsu_Cero_Heat.png


Furthermore, we see plenty of debris/fragments around the Finger Bearer on the ground, which is by itself is sufficient to disqualify vaporization.

Onomatopoeia is not enough to salvage the lacking evidence for vaporization or counter the evidence against it. In fact the same Onomatopoeia has been used for kicking up dust, flipping up cards, and impact:
dS9kWYR.jpg
Kw6tc7D.jpg
DIbZQ9Q.jpg

For all I know, the "SSaaa.." is just the impact echoing throughout the cave.

Being a kinetic blast means that it is not a radiation-type attack that heats up whatever it touches into liquid and then gas, but that it pushes/crushes objects.
The Finger Bearer lacks Innate Techniques and just uses pure Cursed Energy.
0007-004.png
0007-005.png

0007-007.png
0007-008.png

So yes, the same technique (Cursed Energy barrier), but with more oomph. Literally the same type of Cursed Spirit with more power.
 
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In other words, you are willing to accept this projection (which is almost identical to the orange line).

bT9rdsP.png
Now that's fair. Your other examples did not even have coherent logic.

But I mean, this image you used is not complete. The complete one is this:
Screenshot_20210417-221540.png
372_Sem_Titulo_20210418003323.png


Try this image now
Also, if this was discussed, then the discussion was extremely brief, not concluded, and the problems were left unanswered. Didn't know my amateur art was that popular... Maybe I should go pro!
Man, a lot has been discussed before you came along. You showed up at the end lol
This is considered a good example of vaporization:


Furthermore, we see plenty of debris/fragments around the Finger Bearer on the ground, which is by itself is sufficient to disqualify vaporization.
There is absolutely no fragmentation in the crater, there is only a crater in the ceiling and the ground. What is left in the picture is just some rocks that were out of the range of the cursed explosion. Literally the only thing that managed to ""survive"" in the crater was just a few drops of shadow from Megumi's Domain Expansion. I really don't know where you could see a remnant fragment

Another thing, that example of yours was extremely irrelevant. Amount of whie steam does not necessarily mean that it was more evaporated than the other crater. Finger Bearer's reasons for evaporating the cave is the fact of 3 things:
  • White Steam
  • The crater is 100% smooth
  • The attack has onomatopoeia of evaporation ("Shshshshs")
This is more than necessary to consider evaporation.
Onomatopoeia is not enough to salvage the lacking evidence for vaporization or counter the evidence against it. In fact the same Onomatopoeia has been used for kicking up dust, flipping up cards, and impact:
None of these scans are using the specific kanji (You can even check with the site's translator). And of course, you need context. Do you think the scan will have "Sshshs" in the image without a reason? Finger Bearer literally just created a crater with white steam, it's obvious the meaning that Gage Akutami wanted to convey by this.
For all I know, the "SSaaa.." is just the impact echoing throughout the cave.
No, you can see it in the link to the calculation I sent. ササア means "Shshshs" in the sense of steam, I showed an example of a character evaporating supposedly water with the same Kanji. Here is another one by the way (The scan is in Portuguese, but the important thing is the kanji)
So yes, the same technique (Cursed Energy barrier), but with more oomph. Literally the same type of Cursed Spirit with more power.
You didn't explain anything. Megumi said that he didn't use any cursed techniques, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't possess any others. My Jesus, Finger Bearer has literally created an Domain Expansion, one of the most powerful and difficult techniques to use in Jujutsu World. Simply because a weaker version used only cursed energy to play with Itadori means nothing
 
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Now that's fair. Your other examples did not even have coherent logic.
On the contrary, they are perfectly usable due to the reasons I outlined.
But this is one based of the calc:
2Q2Hiyb.png


There is absolutely no fragmentation in the crater, there is only a crater in the ceiling and the ground. What is left in the picture is just some rocks that were out of the range of the cursed explosion. Literally the only thing that managed to ""survive"" in the crater was just a few drops of shadow from Megumi's Domain Expansion. I really don't know where you could see a remnant fragment
8b0UrwO.png

Debris getting launched, and debris all over the 'crater'. Vaporization gets rejected for a lot less.

Another thing, that example of yours was extremely irrelevant. Amount of whie steam does not necessarily mean that it was more evaporated than the other crater.
On the contrary; vaporization requires either considerable amount of visible vapor or character statements that imply vaporization. There is a lack of considerable amount of vapor, and character statements affirms that the attack works via. pushing/crushing things and not vaporizing them.

None of these scans are using the specific kanji (You can even check with the site's translator). And of course, you need context. Do you think the scan will have "Sshshs" in the image without a reason? Finger Bearer literally just created a crater with white steam, it's obvious the meaning that Gage Akutami wanted to convey by this.
???
M4xV68B.png

Maybe you didn't look carefully and missed those?

They are not Kanji by the way, but Katakana (basically letters that are mainly used to spell foreign words. There are also an other letter set representing the same sounds called Hiragana which is used to spell native words or act as a suffix, though it is mainly used to supplement Kanji).

From the context, it is a kinetic force that crushes or pushes things in its way, and as we've seen the SFX is used generically and the extension can easily refer to echo.

You didn't explain anything. Megumi said that he didn't use any cursed techniques, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't possess any others. My Jesus, Finger Bearer has literally created an Domain Expansion, one of the most powerful and difficult techniques to use in Jujutsu World. Simply because a weaker version used only cursed energy to play with Itadori means nothing
He manifested an unfinished Domain (And not a Domain Expansion, which is something that gives auto-hit and a stat boost) without use of any Cursed Technique.

0015-009.png
0056-015.png


So yes, literally spitting and pushing pure Cursed Energy as a kinetic force.
 
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Lol I was about to turn off my computer now
On the contrary, they are perfectly usable due to the reasons I outlined.
But this is one based of the calc:
Did you use the scale I sent you or did you keep using the old one? The previous one I sent you was not complete, as I said before
Debris getting launched, and debris all over the 'crater'. Vaporization gets rejected for a lot less.
None of this is a fragmentation, man, none. This fragmentation that is in the explosion is simply a rock that is still going to be destroyed by the explosion. If it was really just a barrier that pushes things around, why didn't a sea of stone (ground and ceiling area) just appear in the scene? It was literally just a rock. Your other examples don't mean anything either. Your other examples don't mean anything either, they are literally a few micro-fragments, but that doesn't discount the other 99.9% of the crater
character statements affirms that the attack works via. pushing/crushing things and not vaporizing them.
That was never mentioned...
M4xV68B.png

Maybe you didn't look carefully and missed those?
Man, these are not the onotopia of evaporation (The "shshshs")... I even asked you to check with the "site translator", @Qliphoth_Bacikal. They are different onotopia you can see that just by looking at the scan. These three onotopia are different too
Screenshot_20210418-172609.png

You see? Different onomatopoeia
From the context, it is a kinetic force that crushes or pushes things in its way, and as we've seen the SFX is used generically and the extension can easily refer to echo.
I have never seen an explosion generate an echo with the sound of "shshsshs". Me clapping my hands makes an echo of "Braham", but an massive explosion will now sound a "Sshshs"?????? What is the meaning of this logic of yours?
He manifested an unfinished Domain (And not a Domain Expansion, which is something that gives auto-hit and a stat boost) without use of any Cursed Technique.
Man, is this serious? It is an incomplete domain expansion but still one of the most powerful techniques in the jujutsu world. Many sorcerers can't even use a domain expansion incomplete like Finger Bearer and use a "Simple Domain" mastering because they are not able to get create to the level of a real Domain Expansion. His dominion expansion is more powerful and complete than Megumi's. In the same scan you sent Gojo says that the domains expansion are extremely strong. Hell, Megumi himself said it was impressive
So yes, literally spitting and pushing pure Cursed Energy as a kinetic force.
No explanation yet. I still want a justification of why a weaker version has no cursed technique for playing a prey (Itadori and Megumi) even after showing an ability that impresses many characters
 
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Did you use the scale I sent you or did you keep using the old one? The previous one I sent you was not complete, as I said before
I still fail to see why sticking to your scale is necessary for reasons I previously mentioned; all projections are perfectly usable and within margin of error and plausible interpretation. I would be interested to hear an explanation for why it is required.
But here is it any way:
tnQwBfo.png


None of this is a fragmentation, man, none. This fragmentation that is in the explosion is simply a rock that is still going to be destroyed by the explosion. If it was really just a barrier that pushes things around, why didn't a sea of stone (ground and ceiling area) just appear in the scene? It was literally just a rock. Your other examples don't mean anything either. Your other examples don't mean anything either, they are literally a few micro-fragments, but that doesn't discount the other 99.9% of the crater
By definition they are fragmentation; rocks being broken into fragments.
Evidence that the rocks flying away is still going to be destroyed and not get flown off-screen?
Lack of 'a sea of stone' is due some stones being pushed away to the background, and some stones being crushed to dust. Though some stones did hold their ground apparently.


Pulverization: Applied when the matter that was destroyed was turned to dust. We usually use this value when we see no remains of the matter that was destroyed in the aftermath of the attack. The value is 214.35 (j/cc).

Vaporisation: Applied when the matter that was destroyed was vaporised during the attack. Much like for Pulverization, we usually use this value when we see no remains of the matter that was destroyed in the attack, but in addition there has to be a considerable amount of visible vapor and/or character statements that imply vaporization, usually the latter. The value is 25700 (j/cc).

Considering that there are visible remains of the matter that was destroyed, the discussion should be why the feat was pulverization, not why the feat was vaporization.
The energy required to vaporize rocks is >>>>> the energy required to crush rocks to dust. The fact that there are rocks that are just fragmented and not even pulverized shoots down the idea of mass-vaporization by itself.

Man, these are not the onotopia of evaporation (The "shshshs")... I even asked you to check with the "site translator", @Qliphoth_Bacikal. They are different onotopia you can see that just by looking at the scan. These three onotopia are different too
Screenshot_20210418-172609.png

You see? Different onomatopoeia
Looks like Qliphoth realized that all of the onomatopoeia (including the one you claimed is saying "shshsh") is saying "za" instead of "ssa". Which further discredits the claim of sizzling or evaporation.
You don't need to have +level 90 in the Japanese language skill to figure out that the Katakana characters look the same. Simple and basic observation is more than sufficient. Qliphoth explicitly confirmed that they obviously look the same by the way.

I have never seen an explosion generate an echo with the sound of "shshsshs". Me clapping my hands makes an echo of "Braham", but an massive explosion will now sound a "Sshshs"?????? What is the meaning of this logic of yours?
I've never seen someone move faster than eye sight, and kick up dust that produces the sound "ssa/za", so?
I mean even if you somehow were an expert on how (fictional) kinetic blasts inside caves sound like, different people and authors will disagree and come up with different sounds.

Man, is this serious? It is an incomplete domain expansion but still one of the most powerful techniques in the jujutsu world. Many sorcerers can't even use a domain expansion incomplete like Finger Bearer and use a "Simple Domain" mastering because they are not able to get create to the level of a real Domain Expansion. His dominion expansion is more powerful and complete than Megumi's. In the same scan you sent Gojo says that the domains expansion are extremely strong. Hell, Megumi himself said it was impressive
Don't see your point. Cursed Spirits can do some things easier than humans, such as using Cursed Energy for healing. This doesn't demonstrate that Cursed Energy by itself heats objects so much that they force them to immediately go from solid -> liquid -> gas state.
 

Antvasima

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What are the conclusions here? It seems like our calc group members are not interested so far.
 
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I have a test next week, so I won't help. Obviously I won't stop the discussion this time. But I ask that if the calculation is rejected, wait until I post some new calculations for the verse before change the profiles (If that's okay, of course)
 

M3X

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So, given that a calc group member has evaluated this, what should we do here?
I was hoping if we could get more opinions, I asked Damage yesterday and I'll remind him again. If he agrees, then I will redo the first calc and then apply it.
 

Antvasima

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Well, the other calc group members unfortunately seem uninterested so far.
 

Therefir

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FB creates an explosion

This explosion destroys several rocks in a cave

This destruction looks like vaporization

Link
It looks like the explosion destroyed part of the cave ceiling, but I'm not sure if there's something that justifies vaporization, those sound effects are also used for dust.

I can still calculate the feat though, I just need the name of the character that performed it to find his height.
 

M3X

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Fushiguro, 1.75m. I've done a recalc here, comparing the distance between the ceiling and the ground before and after the destruction, I got the difference and the result is the height of the "crater".
 

Therefir

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Calculating FB's height makes the calculation more precise

I already calculated the height in the previous blog, just use the same scale
 
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