Joker Downgrade + Abilities

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

Ok, so this may only be for AP, as he seems to be more durable than he is strong. All of the feats he has are 10-A. Breaking a window of similar size with just a headbutt? Rather easy for even normal humans. Breaking a old decrepit clock off the wall in a few swings also doesn't seem that impressive. Chocking someone larger than him can be classified as just 10-A.

That being said, some of the durability stuff I also have slight issue with. "Survived being inside a police car that was totaled by an ambulance crash" while true, he was knocked out and normal humans can do the same. "Withstood a wooden sign board getting broken over his head" a very flimsy and thing wooden board. While I do think the care feat does make him 9-C durability wise, it is questionable.

Minor power additions and weaknesses: while not overwhelmingly good, he is at least adept with stealth and possibly should have Stealth Mastery. He easily stalks a women without her noticing and easily snuck into the theater. Also shows a great deal of Pain Tolerance throughout the film, which iirc is Pain Resistance. Also he suffers from illusions and hallucinations.

Blade shiv...when did he use that again? Pretty sure it isn't standard equipment.

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

Also something really minor, he says his original clown name was "Carnival" iirc.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah he did.

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

Oh ok. What about the rest?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I dunno. I don't think he's Peak Human, obviously, but he does have some good durability. He shouldn't have just gotten up from the car accident and the ambulance crash should have killed any real person.

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

Humans have survived crazy things like that, but yeah.

 

[Cropfist]

I contemplated the tier a lot, but he scaled down from destroying phone booths, which is wall level from what i've seen, the clock was still pretty large and bolted to the wall, and strangling Alfred is just supporting I guess but he was able to do it with his arms constrained by the gate.

He was on the side of the car that was directly hit by the ambulance, was only bloodied and knocked out for a few minutes, while the two police officers (one on the opposite side) were instantly killed, I would say that is above human. And wooden objects not much bigger than the sign are calced at wall level.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

To be fair, the headbutt was really, really light. He didn't slam his head or anything. I still think he should be 9-C. Another feat he had was overpowering a man and easily killing him by slamming his head into the wall. The car accident did a pretty good number on the car, it even killed the same police officer that was in it. So he's survived two car crashes. I disagree with stealth mastery, following someone without getting caught in a city is...not stealth mastery really. Either way, he did get caught by her. His blade shiv comes from a scene of his other workers visiting him, with Arthur killing one of them. I don't know if he kept it with him after that.

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

I contemplated the tier a lot, but he scaled down from destroying phone booths, which is wall level from what i've seen, the clock was still pretty large and bolted to the wall, and strangling Alfred is just supporting I guess but he was able to do it with his arms constrained by the gate.

And wooden objects not much bigger than the sign are calced at wall level.

He shattered a ghetto phone booths window...would that ever be wall? The clock was old, likely made of relatively thin metal. It really didn't look like that high of a feat.

Why? The sigh isn't very thick?

To be fair, the headbutt was really, really light. He didn't slam his head or anything. I still think he should be 9-C. Another feat he had was overpowering a man and easily killing him by slamming his head into the wall. The car accident did a pretty good number on the car, it even killed the same police officer that was in it. So he's survived two car crashes. I disagree with stealth mastery, following someone without getting caught in a city is...not stealth mastery really. Either way, he did get caught by her. His blade shiv comes from a scene of his other workers visiting him, with Arthur killing one of them. I don't know if he kept it with him after that.

One he leaned forward and shattered a window. I don't see why that is seen as impressive. He killed the man with scissors and then slammed his head again the wall a couple times. Nothing above 10-A.

And no, he wasn't caught. First time he thought he was caught was an illusion in his head and the second time once he got in he stopped hiding.

Yeah, that shouldn't be on the profile then. He used it once, and we never see it again.

 

[Ted_Ed]

>downgrading Joker

We truly live in a society

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

>downgrading Joker

We truly live in a society

Your point?

 

[Cropfist]

Phone booths should made of sturdier glass than average, even in a place like Gotham, or perhaps especially. The clock was too big to be made of too thin materials.

A wooden door a few inches larger and thicker than the sign are about 35x above base wall level. Using the shiv once is using it enough.

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

Hope we can get some calcs as soon as possible then.

K

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Gonna be a bit difficult because the movie barley came out. Still, he should at least stay as 9-C.

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

Then can we remove the "likely" at least? While I disagree with the AP, I guess it is fine

 

[Ionliosite]

His guns should remain be 9-C, and I think his durability should be 9-C given he has survived things most humans would die from.

 

[Wokistan]

I feel like him bashing his former boss' skull against the wall like he did would qualify for 9-C, he maybe killed his psychologist at the very end of the movie with his bare hands in a violent enough way to give himself bloody footprints, and knives and pistol would be on this level anyway. His durability should definitely be here though, he just walks off the first car crash and survives one that should be fatal to a normal person.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

It was the person who sold him the gun, not his boss. Which makes it better because he was fairly larger.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Just saw the movie, I disagree with these downgrades.

 

[Cropfist]

When it comes to abilities, I would not be against stealth mastery, but I don't recall any notable pain resistance.

 

[Jackythejack]

I mean one of his car crash surviving feats specifically cracked the windshield. Isn't that 9-C+ or am I wrong

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Could he scale from killing one of his coworkers?

 

[DatOneWeeb]

It should be another reason for 9-C as he was fairly large.

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

Bump

 

[GojiBoyForever]

So have we all agreed?

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

Durability upgrade, sign needs a calc, adding Stealth Mastery

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Ok, Stealth can probably just be added.

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

Ok, what about the rest?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Wasn't the stalking feat all in his head? The lady didn't even know who he was when he broke into her appartment.

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

The being spotted part of it was in his head.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

^

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Durability can be added too I think.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

How could we tell honestly? All the flashbacks showed was that she wasn't with him after the supposed kiss, which was all in his head.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Because she wasnt fading away.

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

And because that scene wasn't shown when the the other illusions were shown.