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Jimmy Hopkins vs Akabane Karma

So, this matchup is the most popular, hypothetical, “death battle” matchup for both the characters.

Rules:
Both combatants start bare handed, but are gradually allowed to use all their standard/optional equipment.
Karma starts with his standard PE suit and Jimmy starts with his Ninja outfit.
Speed is equalized.

Connections:
Rough-mannered, intelligent delinquents from wealthy families who have a history of violence, suspension and breaking school regulations. They are dead-set on achieving their goals no matter what it takes, despite being considered the worst of the worst at their schools due to their school's social hierarchy. They were sent to their respective schools in order to improve their bad behaviors, which were molded by their neglectful parents, and are well-known across said schools for being excellent melee fighters and using their various weapons to either prank or fight people.

While they may initially come off as cold, they aren't evil deep down, especially because their reason for fighting people is actually to protect others (Jimmy dealing with the horrible people at Bullworth so he can put an end to the bullying, and Karma is in Class 3-E because he defended a senior from getting bullied, and in general, he's always ready to defend his classmates when they need it).

By attending these schools, they were betrayed by someone they thought they could trust (Gary and Kensaku), but later on, they found new life paths and goals, with one of these goals being to challenge their school's hierarchy. They, also frequently rely on the help of their muscle-brained friends (Russel and Terasaka) who are physically stronger (but dumber and less skilled) than them in order to put their plans into action.

Both are seen as loners compared to their classmates, but fortunately, they can always count on their shy best friends (Pete and Nagisa) who are the complete opposite of them (Pete and Nagisa are both calm and reserved compared to Jimmy and Karma's rebellious personalities). By the end of their journeys, they paved a better future for their communities (Jimmy restoring peace to Bullworth, and Karma becoming a bureaucrat).


Scaling:
Karma scales to 5.87 MJ and 205 m/s travel speed (?)
Jimmy scales to 7.82 MJ and 8 m/s travel speed
(Travel speed can’t get equalized)

Polling:
Jimmy Hopkins: 3 (@GoCommitDi, @Axl233, @jojo123)
Karma Akabane: 3 (@Doggo, me, @J.J._Chambers)
Inconclusive:
 
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Am not sure who wins this but I’ll just give the advantages each has:
Karma: (Travel) Speed, Intelligence, Skill/Exp.
Jimmy: AP, Stamina, Durability, Weaponry/Arsenal.
Both: Not being an asshole.


I can see a few scenarios where each of then wins, Karma may win if he tags Jimmy with the tranquilliser darts that 3-E has or the gas weapon (carried by Smog) but Jimmy may win if he hits Karma enough times with his spud guns or firecrackers.

Karma might have a rough ~3x speed edge but Jimmy’s wacky-ass arsenal will cause a lot of trouble.
 
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I think karma takes vie superior skill, intelligence and experience. the only thing jimmy has is equipment and ap which karma can handle
 
I think karma takes vie superior skill, intelligence and experience. the only thing jimmy has is equipment and ap which karma can handle
You need to give more reasons than that for it to count as a vote. Like, Why would Karma be able to handle Jimmy’s AP And weapons?

Jimmy has the superior range advantage, itching powder would ruin Karma’s day and distract him long enough for Jimmy to land his fire crackers.

Karma’s only edge here would be to get up close to Jimmy and hit him with the smog weapon, or snipe him with tranquilzers (he’s ranked 4th in the class in overall sniping, Chiba and Hayami can hit their targets from more than 50m away).

Honestly, I’ll just vote incon And unless you elaborate, your vote does not count.
 
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He fought Craig who could literally crush his skull if he was caught so I don't really an ap difference is going to bother him to much, also the ap difference is not that big tbh its 7 MJ vs 5 MJ.

range is irrelevant when karma has enhance senses which makes it easier to dodge, also he has a gun. also smoke manip and stealth is gonna mess with jimmy since he doesn't have any enhance senses
 
karma can also counter his explosives via special cloth
He fought Craig who could literally crush his skull if he was caught so I don't really an ap difference is going to bother him to much, also the ap difference is not that big tbh its 7 MJ vs 5 MJ.

range is irrelevant when karma has enhance senses which makes it easier to dodge, also he has a gun. also smoke manip and stealth is gonna mess with jimmy since he doesn't have any enhance senses

That’s fair ig, alright, I’ll count your vote but I’m still 50/50 on this.
 
itching powder seem like jimmy's only real bet here since his ap advantage is not that big at all
 
Oh nice, I made that matchup

So, this is relatively close. Karma has better training under his belt, and both tend to be really brutal as their first tactics in a fight (Jimmy's the type to go for nut shots and whatnot while Karma didn't hesitate to throw dirt into his best friend's eyes). There's also how Karma actively takes on and finds his opponent's weaknesses. However, I don't think there's a lot of exploitable weaknesses Jimmy would have as he'd take the fight more seriously, not to mention Jimmy's entire shtick is only going for melee whenever he's attacked directly; he almost always goes for a form of incapping his opponent, overwhelming them with status effect. or simply trying to out-range them. In comparison, Karma's best method would be to use a gun, which he rarely uses in combat outside of Korosensei, and you could honestly argue Jimmy can survive a few bullets since he took shots from a rapid-fire potato gun that destroyed two metal doors. With that being said, Jimmy would also easily disarm Karma.

Sure, the AP difference isn't particularly huge, but this isn't news to Jimmy as he is very used to fighting opponents much stronger than him (e.g. Russell), as well as those who can attack him before he does (e.g. Norton). On top of that, Jimmy is a lot better at keeping his cool and not blasting off against his opponents, and his arsenal can outright negate Karma's statistic edges.

Voting Jimmy mid-diff.
 
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so skillwise, jimmy beat the crap out of a boxer champion of his town and proceeded to do the same with the rest of the rich kids, has been thought self-defense by a vietnam veteran and graduated in his wrestling gym classes.And like the guy said above if Jimmy get pressured by him he could always rely on playing dirty like throwing his Sticky bombs,using his guns at point blank who can one shot people who are comparable to him or kick him in the balls a bunch of times.

Jimmy FRA
 
I mean
Oh nice, I made that matchup

So, this is relatively close. Karma has better training under his belt, and both tend to be really brutal as their first tactics in a fight (Jimmy's the type to go for nut shots and whatnot while Karma didn't hesitate to throw dirt into his best friend's eyes). There's also how Karma actively takes on and finds his opponent's weaknesses. However, I don't think there's a lot of exploitable weaknesses Jimmy would have as he'd take the fight more seriously, not to mention Jimmy's entire shtick is only going for melee whenever he's attacked directly; he almost always goes for a form of incapping his opponent, overwhelming them with status effect. or simply trying to out-range them. In comparison, Karma's best method would be to use a gun, which he rarely uses in combat outside of Korosensei, and you could honestly argue Jimmy can survive a few bullets since he took shots from a rapid-fire potato gun that destroyed two metal doors. With that being said, Jimmy would also easily disarm Karma.

Sure, the AP difference isn't particularly huge, but this isn't news to Jimmy as he is very used to fighting opponents much stronger than him (e.g. Russell), as well as those who can attack him before he does (e.g. Norton). On top of that, Jimmy is a lot better at keeping his cool and not blasting off against his opponents, and his arsenal can outright negate Karma's statistic edges.

Voting Jimmy mid-diff.

I’ve counted both of your guys’ voted. But Imean, Karma beating the shit out of Jimmy wasn’t his win con, it was either hitting him with stun darts or smog’s gas weapon, how would Jimmy avoid that btw? Especially since he does melee combat and Karma has a travel speed advantage (you can’t equalize this apparently according to vsb mods)?

Both Karma and Jimmy are equally cool headed under some serious pressure, Jimmy has more feats of it though. And yea I agree jimmy’s arsenal is more out of wack than Karma’s so he’d get overwhelmed but Karma‘s arsenal can one-shot jimmy by immobilizing him (Stun darts, smog’s gas weapon). Jimmy’d need to actively bombard Karma with AoE weapons or outrange him.

Karma’s gun would have an effect on Jimmy because of piercing damage (which can even hurt large building lvl characters), spud gund don’t really have that much piecing damage but they do to an extent. Iirc, Jimmy does have feats of tanking regular guns as well, so again 50/50 on this.

I mean, my main question is, can Jimmy bombard Karma with his arsenal before Karma one-shots him with tranquelizers or Smog’s gas weapon? If he can, then I’ll votr for Jimmy but for now, both have an equal chance of subdueing each other without a long drawn out fight, so Incon it is for me.
 
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so skillwise, jimmy beat the crap out of a boxer champion of his town and proceeded to do the same with the rest of the rich kids, has been thought self-defense by a vietnam veteran and graduated in his wrestling gym classes.And like the guy said above if Jimmy get pressured by him he could always rely on playing dirty like throwing his Sticky bombs,using his guns at point blank who can one shot people who are comparable to him or kick him in the balls a bunch of times.

Jimmy FRA
Karma has much better skill than Jimmy, on top of hybrid martial arts and assassination training, he can copy people’s moves by looking at them and sticky bombs would become useless thanks to Karma’s handkerchief, and it’s not like Karma hasn’t been able to react at point blank (he did it with his fights with Shindo, Grip and Nagisa).

Neither of their wincons is beating the shit out of each other, AP advantage is just too small for anyone to care about. Jimmy’s wincon is his range, aoe and superior arsenal, Karma’s wincon are his hax (stealth/ fear hax along with enhanced senses which allows him to aim-dodge, copying people‘s techniques and damage reduction), skills or stun darts/gas weapons. So, how would Jimmy/Karma counter each other? I mean, they have never fought opponent‘s who acted just like them. Karma hasn’t fought an opponent who uses AoE and range, Jimmy hasn’t fought an opponent who’s more skilled and can immobilise him.
 
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Oh nice, I made that matchup

So, this is relatively close. Karma has better training under his belt, and both tend to be really brutal as their first tactics in a fight (Jimmy's the type to go for nut shots and whatnot while Karma didn't hesitate to throw dirt into his best friend's eyes). There's also how Karma actively takes on and finds his opponent's weaknesses. However, I don't think there's a lot of exploitable weaknesses Jimmy would have as he'd take the fight more seriously, not to mention Jimmy's entire shtick is only going for melee whenever he's attacked directly; he almost always goes for a form of incapping his opponent, overwhelming them with status effect. or simply trying to out-range them. In comparison, Karma's best method would be to use a gun, which he rarely uses in combat outside of Korosensei, and you could honestly argue Jimmy can survive a few bullets since he took shots from a rapid-fire potato gun that destroyed two metal doors. With that being said, Jimmy would also easily disarm Karma.

Sure, the AP difference isn't particularly huge, but this isn't news to Jimmy as he is very used to fighting opponents much stronger than him (e.g. Russell), as well as those who can attack him before he does (e.g. Norton). On top of that, Jimmy is a lot better at keeping his cool and not blasting off against his opponents, and his arsenal can outright negate Karma's statistic edges.

Voting Jimmy mid-diff.
Jimmy has being "Gullible" as weakness on his page, considering karma is vastly smarter than him he can easily exploit it as a weakness. Also how will jimmy disarm karma exactly? its peak human vs super human LS its gonna be Karma whos disarming him.

Also no karma does not have the statistic edge, its jimmy. Also Jimmy's range and usually fighting style is not gonna cut it for him. Karma is FAR more agile as shown when Class 3-E being able to jump on trees to take out a bunch of soldiers in the dark, i don't see why he cant use that to simply avoid his shots. Also how fast does his slingshot reload? cause if its like a normal slingshot karma can easily just blitz him before he loads his next shot via superior travel speed. Karma also has his stealth which jimmy cant counter, what's stopping karma from simply sneaking at him and use his tranquillizer darts
 
so skillwise, jimmy beat the crap out of a boxer champion of his town and proceeded to do the same with the rest of the rich kids, has been thought self-defense by a vietnam veteran and graduated in his wrestling gym classes.And like the guy said above if Jimmy get pressured by him he could always rely on playing dirty like throwing his Sticky bombs,using his guns at point blank who can one shot people who are comparable to him or kick him in the balls a bunch of times.

Jimmy FRA
Karma has been taught by skilled fighters for an entire school year and defeat As well as impress world class assassin and entire group of soldiers
 
You can't vote on your own threads (although you can argue for a character)
Nope. To my knowledge, it is very possible to vote for your own threads. There is no rule that say you shouldn't and quite a few have done so, although, typically, thread makers usually just vote for their thread if there is only one vote needed to reach grace.
 
Actually, that’s allowed now.
My bad, didn't know

Jimmy has being "Gullible" as weakness on his page, considering karma is vastly smarter than him he can easily exploit it as a weakness. Also how will jimmy disarm karma exactly? its peak human vs super human LS its gonna be Karma whos disarming him.
I wouldn't say Jimmy is always gullible. He got tricked by Gary, sure, but that was early on in the game when he needed a friend to guide him through the school (honestly though, he was already a tad suspicious about Gary anyway), and a single failure compared to numerous successes (later on in the game, he didn't buy Lola's manipulative tactics at all, and he managed to outsmart the Nerds, who can build rapid-fire defense systems) doesn't mean he's always that naive.

Also, itching powder, stink bombs and the rubber band ball will help with disarming.
 
My bad, didn't know


I wouldn't say Jimmy is always gullible. He got tricked by Gary, sure, but that was early on in the game when he needed a friend to guide him through the school (honestly though, he was already a tad suspicious about Gary anyway), and a single failure compared to numerous successes (later on in the game, he didn't buy Lola's manipulative tactics at all, and he managed to outsmart the Nerds, who can build rapid-fire defense systems) doesn't mean he's always that naive.

Also, itching powder, stink bombs and the rubber band ball will help with disarming.
Oh sorry seems like i underestimated him, But karma is still WAYY smarter than anyone Jimmy has ever met or faced. karma can also disarm jimmy with his superior LS leading to a H2H fight. Another thing that is worth noting is that Jimmy has no counters to Karmas stealth meaning he can easily hide and sneak up to jimmy and use his Tranquillizers darts.

stink bombs probably wont work since he has a hacker chief which he used to protect himself from sleeping gas
 
I think karma takes this . Jimmy's ap advantage is not gonna bother him much since karma has fought a dude who could crush his skull. Karma also has travel speed advantage here, meaning who literally just blitz jimmy and use tranquillizers darts or hide somewhere before he could catch him and sneak him up with stealth. Jimmy could win via his slingshot dealing more damage than him but karma has a gun and can simply dodged his attacks
 
Alright, I am voting for Karma after long deliberation:
Basically, the fight can't be ended by hand to hand combat, Jimmy's strength gets negated by Karma's PE suit and Karma isn't as strong as JImmy is either. Their AP roughly equal anyway.

So the winner of this fight will be based on:
1. Who'll be able to recognise that h2h are useless
2. Who's weapons are actually more useful?
3. Who can counter the other person's weapons?

So, 1. Karma gets this due to superior intelligence, he has informational analysis and can assess people's strength just by looking at them and has knowledge of hybrid martial arts and assassination techniques. As for usefulness, both have equally useful weapons but Karma's weapons can knock out Jimmy instantly whilst Jimmy's weapons can't one-shot Karma.

Karma also has a lot of counters for Jimmy's weapons, he can't outrange him because of Karma's faster travel speed (Jimmy would have to run for hundreds of meters to outrange him, at that point he'll just tire out), sticky bombs and toxic fumes would be negated by by the handkerchief, PE suit has better stealth and provides resistance to firecrackers and can negate the itching powder. Jimmy meanwhile has no counter to Karma's gas weapons, once inhaled he's done for, all Karma has to do would be to taunt him, repeatedly make fun of him until Jimmy loses it and ambushes Karma, at that point Karma can just spray him with the gas and it's all over. He is more manipulative afterall.

Karma can also pretend to be knocked out (Like he did with Grip or Nagisa did with him) and spray him that way too, Karma has enhanced senses so Jimmy can't sneak up on him ordinarily as Karma would notice and Karma has faced oppnents who are far stronger than him (Grip, Craig, 2.0, those athletes in the sports fest etc.) and always won. Reaction speed is equal but Karma also has more experience dodging pointblank attacks (The batter, Grip, Nagisa etc.) than Jimmy does, so he can spray him within point-blank range. Karma also has fear hax and his gaze that he can use on Jimmy which might scare him.

And if that doesn't work, he has 4th out of 28th in marksmanship which should put him on par with Chiba and Hayami, both of whom can shoot from 100 of meters way, so Karma can snipe him at close range with stun darts, at which point Jimmy would get knocked out. Karma also has 3-E's tazer weapons, so he can just electrocute Jimmy at close range too.
 
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All and all, even if Jimmy has more weapons and stronger, his edges can't really counter Karma's edges, Karma may have fewer edges but his arsenal and training can counter most of what Jimmy throws it him and he can knock him out in just one attack, he's very intelligent and unlike Himmster, stopped underestimating people.

So Karma would just stall him like he did with Grip and then gas him or snipe him. Jimmy has a larger arsenal and better range, but that won't work if he gets knocked out within the first few minutes or so, and Karma will definitely be the one to use weapons first because of his intelligence and better situational awareness.
 
Jim Hopkins if he fights Jim Hawkins
dead-guy.gif
 
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