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Izuku Midoriya (My Hero Academia) vs John Doe (UnOrdinary)

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CasuallyDone

CasuallyDone

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Izuku Midoriya vs John Doe

Location, Wellston Courtyard
Starting Distance, 30m apart
Speed Equalized
In Character
Quirks are treated as abilities; John can copy One for All and amplify it and can read Izuku's "stats" and quirk.
Izuku gets basic knowledge of Aura Manipulation. (Copy abilities John perceives being used.) Aside from that no prior knowledge.

UA Beginnings Izuku (Stain Fight, 5% max)
Unrestrained John (Start of Royal Fight, Phase Shift only)

John - 1
Izuku - 4
 
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Uh, I'm not sure if OFA's nature will allow the thread to let John copy it.
But assuming it does. Copying One For All basically gives John a significant advantage, since it would enhance his already 9-A self to presumably a higher degree of High 8-C. But it highly depends on whether or not his control over his aura would allow him to use OFA at 5%.
Because if he can't he'll essentially self-destruct with his own limbs.

Izuku is smarter and has a better mental constitution than John, but if John has full control of OFA he would probably beat Deku if his physicals on top of his other abilities (assuming he has a stockpile of copied abilities) are boosted by OFA.

If it's just John with OFA boos alone, then I guess it's a coin toss with John having the general stats advantage.
 
Metalballrun said:
Uh, I'm not sure if OFA's nature will allow the thread to let John copy it.
But assuming it does. Copying One For All basically gives John a significant advantage, since it would enhance his already 9-A self to presumably a higher degree of High 8-C. But it highly depends on whether or not his control over his aura would allow him to use OFA at 5%.
Because if he can't he'll essentially self-destruct with his own limbs.

Izuku is smarter and has a better mental constitution than John, but if John has full control of OFA he would probably beat Deku if his physicals on top of his other abilities (assuming he has a stockpile of copied abilities) are boosted by OFA.

If it's just John with OFA boos alone, then I guess it's a coin toss with John having the general stats advantage.
Click to expand...
Actually yeah, He can’t copy OFA, we’ve seen it with Monama.
or well, he can copy the ability to transfer his power, but not the accumulated power over time, so he’d get nothing Useful
OFA also takes time to strength it’s abilities (we’ve seen it with Deku’s 100% growing over time) and even then, it strengths the quirks the same way it strengths power, so none of John’s abilities would get powered unless the fight takes several days or weeks
 
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Acer__ said:
or well, he can copy the ability to transfer his power, but not the accumulated power over time, so he’d get nothing Useful
Click to expand...
Yeah this is what I was considering, but I wrote a premise where John gets the accumulated power anyways.

Now that it's mentioned, the accumulated power is not part of the quirk so it probably won't be copied.
 
Metalballrun said:
Yeah this is what I was considering, but I wrote a premise where John gets the accumulated power anyways.

Now that it's mentioned, the accumulated power is not part of the quirk so it probably won't be copied.
Click to expand...
Either way his aura won’t immediately catch to OFA even if he gets the accumulated power, so 5% still blows him up
 
CasuallyDone said:
5.13Izuku Midoriya vs John Doe

Location, Wellston Courtyard
Starting Distance, 30m apart
Speed Equalized
In Character
Quirks are treated as abilities; John can copy One for All and amplify it and can read Izuku's "stats" and quirk.
Izuku gets basic knowledge of Aura Manipulation. (Copy abilities John perceives being used.) Aside from that no prior knowledge.

UA Beginnings Izuku (Stain Fight, 5% max)
Unrestrained John (Start of Royal Fight, Phase Shift only)

John - 0
Izuku - 0
Inconclusive - 0
Click to expand...
Option 1- As Midoriya knows that John can copy abilities he sees, he tries not to use his Quirk and just fight him hand to hand. Unfortunately since John has Phase Shift, Midoriya is forced to use his Quirk rather quickly.

Unfortunately for John, the AP difference between him using other abilities and 5% Full Cowl is over 100 fold (49.11 kg of TNT vs. scaling to 5.13 Tons of TNT), meaning John gets one-shot on the first hit and doesn't get a chance to copy OFA.

Option 2- Despite speed being equalized, John just manages to copy OFA right before he gets hit.

Unfortunately, John only copies the base ability of OFA , and lacks the generations of accumulated power, like Monoma. In which case Midoriya still one-shots him.

Option 3- John just manages to copy OFA in time, and also gets the power

Unfortunately he does not have similar/equal control over OFA as Midoriya does, and ends up breaking his arms, potentially one-shotting Midoriya in the process, but if he doesn't then he's screwed.

Option 4- John just manages to copy OFA in time, gets the power as well, and also has similar/equal control over OFA as Midoriya does.

Thsi, combined with Phase Shift, means Midoriya's gonna have to fight someone stronger and faster than he is, plus he can shuffle his power around so he has two different stat spreads he can use. With that said, John is not as clever as Midoriya, and has extreme anger issues.

Summary of Ways This Could Go:
  1. Midoriya wins
  2. Midoriya wins
  3. Could go either way
  4. Probably John, but Midoriya could potentially pull out a win.
 
ElajRuengies said:
Option 1- As Midoriya knows that John can copy abilities he sees, he tries not to use his Quirk and just fight him hand to hand. Unfortunately since John has Phase Shift, Midoriya is forced to use his Quirk rather quickly.

Unfortunately for John, the AP difference between him using other abilities and 5% Full Cowl is over 100 fold (49.11 kg of TNT vs. scaling to 5.13 Tons of TNT), meaning John gets one-shot on the first hit and doesn't get a chance to copy OFA.

Option 2- Despite speed being equalized, John just manages to copy OFA right before he gets hit.

Unfortunately, John only copies the base ability of OFA , and lacks the generations of accumulated power, like Monoma. In which case Midoriya still one-shots him.

Option 3- John just manages to copy OFA in time, and also gets the power

Unfortunately he does not have similar/equal control over OFA as Midoriya does, and ends up breaking his arms, potentially one-shotting Midoriya in the process, but if he doesn't then he's screwed.

Option 4- John just manages to copy OFA in time, gets the power as well, and also has similar/equal control over OFA as Midoriya does.

Thsi, combined with Phase Shift, means Midoriya's gonna have to fight someone stronger and faster than he is, plus he can shuffle his power around so he has two different stat spreads he can use. With that said, John is not as clever as Midoriya, and has extreme anger issues.

Summary of Ways This Could Go:
  1. Midoriya wins
  2. Midoriya wins
  3. Could go either way
  4. Probably John, but Midoriya could potentially pull out a win.
Click to expand...
Options 3 and 4 can’t happen.
As in, OFA has already been copied once in series, and they don’t gain the accumulated power, just the ability to transfer your ability
 
Acer__ said:
Options 3 and 4 can’t happen.
As in, OFA has already been copied once in series, and they don’t gain the accumulated power, just the ability to transfer your ability
Click to expand...
In that case John is being matched against someone over 100 times as strong as he is, and so this is a stomp.
 
ElajRuengies said:
In that case John is being matched against someone over 100 times as strong as he is, and so this is a stomp.
Click to expand...
I'll just play a bit of devil's advocate. In terms of combat intelligence, Midoriya and John are considered to be equals in terms of combat intelligence, and John probably has a somewhat high experience edge in terms of fighting. These are in character and due to this being stain fight Izuku, I doubt he will try to use 100% One for All immediately, and I think he would more likely either A. Reactively use 100% like he did against Todoroki at the festival when his leg got iced, or B. Needs to use 5% beforehand in order to block Phase Shift. John should be able to take indirect hits of Delaware smash without being majorly injured by them, and Izuku doesn't use Detroit smash left and right, and doesn't like at this point breaking limbs to spam 100%. The problem is, In Phase Shift, John is dealing massive damage to Izuku with every hit, and forces Izuku into using 5% to not die, he is only Wall+ in UA Beginnings base durability. Also a given in this fight is John can copy One for All as though it were an Aura ability, when copying abilities, he possesses higher mastery of said abilities than the user (In every displayed instance, and Izuku is very inexperienced at this point), and makes their strongest factor stronger, so he will multiple the strength of One for All by 1.5x. John in base has higher durability than Izuku, and will have higher mastery of one for all than Izuku does, due to the way copying abilities works for him, so it's likely he can take more of One for All, especially in defensive phase shift which would further buff his defense. John's copying copies abilities PERFECTLY to the user, and then enhances them. So, he will copy the current capabilities of OFA. He doesn't copy the ability itself, he copies the opponent's current level of the ability, then buffs it to be clear, so he would be copying Izuku's current One for All and then enhancing it up, and likely mastering it more. It wouldn't be unexpected for him to copy one for all and use the air attacks with it for example, and if Izuku holds back and doesn't initially activate or block using OFA there is a very likely chance John could one shot him in phase shift, because Beginning Izuku has extremely low durability without 5% (Wall+) and John is scaled to the higher end of Small Building pretty casually. I just don't see Izuku being able to attack first with 5% in such a way John can't copy it while their speed is equalized, especially when John has vastly superior hand to hand combat, and is likely able to force Izuku into using 5% to block something before he gets a chance to land a hit with it. Even if he does activate 5%, John can with reasonably not die to that first hit with speed equalized, there is a likely chance he dodges, or at least tanks that first hit without dying by doing something like using his arm to deflect Izuku's arm away, and while his arm would be destroyed John has survived and fought with Injuries as bad at that, and if he does he gets to use an enhanced version of One for All with a higher mastery than Izuku. If Izuku was bloodlusted he 100% Detroit's and one shots no diff. But, Izuku very likely doesn't get a chance to one shot John without using a 100% punch, because John is vastly superior in hand to hand, and has fought people much faster than him, and is skilled enough to block them, there is no reason he shouldn't be able to outmaneuver someone of equal speed to him, that is inexperienced in real hand to hand combat, at least out of one shot. Especially when John gets to go in knowing Izuku's stats, he knows just how strong One for All is, he knows just how slow Izuku is while using it in this case, and knows just how tough it is. He is very capable of baiting people into activating an ability, and does it constantly, to people who know he can copy their ability, and because his stats in PS are much higher than base Izuku, Izuku can't do anything to hurt or tank him without 5%, at which point John can copy the full ability that Izuku has currently. John's copy doesn't work like a user of OFA giving it to someone else, John's copy is a direct mirror image of the other person's current ability (In series he is matching his aura to the other person's and then amplifying it's intensity, so in this case he is matching his Aura to Izuku's, and then amplifying it, copying current OFA, it's more akin to mimicry, than direct copying if that wasn't clear, he is mimicking and then buffing it)
 
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CasuallyDone said:
I'll just play a bit of devil's advocate. In terms of combat intelligence, Midoriya and John are considered to be equals in terms of combat intelligence, and John probably has a somewhat high experience edge in terms of fighting. These are in character and due to this being stain fight Izuku, I doubt he will try to use 100% One for All immediately, and I think he would more likely either A. Reactively use 100% like he did against Todoroki at the festival when his leg got iced, or B. Needs to use 5% beforehand in order to block Phase Shift. John should be able to take indirect hits of Delaware smash without being majorly injured by them, and Izuku doesn't use Detroit smash left and right, and doesn't like at this point breaking limbs to spam 100%. The problem is, In Phase Shift, John is dealing massive damage to Izuku with every hit, and forces Izuku into using 5% to not die, he is only Wall+ in UA Beginnings base durability. Also a given in this fight is John can copy One for All as though it were an Aura ability, when copying abilities, he possesses higher mastery of said abilities than the user (In every displayed instance, and Izuku is very inexperienced at this point), and makes their strongest factor stronger, so he will multiple the strength of One for All by 1.5x. John in base has higher durability than Izuku, and will have higher mastery of one for all than Izuku does, due to the way copying abilities works for him, so it's likely he can take more of One for All, especially in defensive phase shift which would further buff his defense. John's copying copies abilities PERFECTLY to the user, and then enhances them. So, he will copy the current capabilities of OFA. He doesn't copy the ability itself, he copies the opponent's current level of the ability, then buffs it to be clear, so he would be copying Izuku's current One for All and then enhancing it up, and likely mastering it more. It wouldn't be unexpected for him to copy one for all and use the air attacks with it for example, and if Izuku holds back and doesn't initially activate or block using OFA there is a very likely chance John could one shot him in phase shift, because Beginning Izuku has extremely low durability without 5% (Wall+) and John is scaled to the higher end of Small Building pretty casually. I just don't see Izuku being able to attack first with 5% in such a way John can't copy it while their speed is equalized, especially when John has vastly superior hand to hand combat, and is likely able to force Izuku into using 5% to block something before he gets a chance to land a hit with it. Even if he does activate 5%, John can with reasonably not die to that first hit with speed equalized, there is a likely chance he dodges, or at least tanks that first hit without dying by doing something like using his arm to deflect Izuku's arm away, and while his arm would be destroyed John has survived and fought with Injuries as bad at that, and if he does he gets to use an enhanced version of One for All with a higher mastery than Izuku. If Izuku was bloodlusted he 100% Detroit's and one shots no diff. But, Izuku very likely doesn't get a chance to one shot John without using a 100% punch, because John is vastly superior in hand to hand, and has fought people much faster than him, and is skilled enough to block them, there is no reason he shouldn't be able to outmaneuver someone of equal speed to him, that is inexperienced in real hand to hand combat, at least out of one shot. Especially when John gets to go in knowing Izuku's stats, he knows just how strong One for All is, he knows just how slow Izuku is while using it in this case, and knows just how tough it is. He is very capable of baiting people into activating an ability, and does it constantly, to people who know he can copy their ability, and because his stats in PS are much higher than base Izuku, Izuku can't do anything to hurt or tank him without 5%, at which point John can copy the full ability that Izuku has currently. John's copy doesn't work like a user of OFA giving it to someone else, John's copy is a direct mirror image of the other person's current ability (In series he is matching his aura to the other person's and then amplifying it's intensity, so in this case he is matching his Aura to Izuku's, and then amplifying it, copying current OFA, it's more akin to mimicry, than direct copying if that wasn't clear, he is mimicking and then buffing it)
Click to expand...
You see none of that matters because OFA can’t be copied in the traditional sense or mimic’d that’s what monama does he has a perfect copy of the persons quirk yet for OFA he gets nothing because the accumulated power isn’t part of the quirk, it’s a side effect of it getting transferred and the user of it doing battle and getting strength. Izuku’s is only so strong because it’s 8 generations + his own power into OFA
 
In other words John would have his own version of OFA and he’d count as generation 1
If he passes it on then someone will get his strength ontop of their own so on and so forth
 
“5% Full Cowl” doesn’t actually exist. It’s not an ability that can be copied. It’s just Deku using the actual ability “One For All” in a limited scope. It’s not really something that can be copied as John does.
 
John copying OFA is already a little iffy, then you remember it's only that strong because of the stockpiled power and that he'd have to copy the remnants of previous users as well (Wich is already a dangerously high level of NLF) he is likely already disqualified.

Even assuming he can copy it perfectly there's a lot of problems with AFO, for one it's massively harder to master and use effectively than anything John has ever used. 1. you need a lot of physical training to use it without exploding(John can compete and even beat lower level ability users without his powers, but it's mostly through vast skill difference) 2.you need a lot of practice using it so you don't break your bones in short bursts of use 3.Even if he can understand and use it well from the get go his ability amplifies techniques he copies, so that might mean even worse drawbacks. Phase shift could help with that too, as it increases dura.

Now, assuming he can copy it perfectly, use it to the same mastery level as Midoriya and use phase shift to lower drawbacks we go to their fighting skill and experience.
Midoriya at this point already has a decent analytical precog where he can observe habits and can observe weakness and lacking aspect in other's fighting styles and how they use their quirks.
John is skilled in self defense, and has way better experience in fighting, he can beat untrained lower tiers with vast physical advantage and powers without using his ability. Is used to multiple people ganging on him and dealing with multiple ability combinations at once while copying powers he's never seen before and using them against the original users with even more mastery than they had by practicing their whole lives until that point. But he's got a very big flaw. John is really easy to anger, and oftenly loses control leading to a reckless agressive fighting style wich can be exploited. If the opponent can put enough pressure he just goes full berserk to the point of not even perceiving the enemy and attacking his best friend Seraphina (who dismantled him with a weaker version of her ability while John had 3 different high tier abilities copied.) Midoriya can probably read him easy and outplan the hell out of him while he's in this state, but having phase shift on top of his skill advantage before he goes berserk is enough to beat Midoriya.

I say Midoriya either stomps or wins unless we give full NLF leeway to John.
 
Side note- I had to look through John's explosion calcs to see what he scaled to, and just noticed that the pixel scaling on three of them is... questionable, to be polite.

Namely they completely disregard perspective, scale from an object definitely in the background in two cases (meaning it'll appear relatively smaller, so the explosion will be bigger), and use straight lines from the ground to one's head for character heights, despite said characters often having their knees bent and/or are not standing up straight (again inflating the explosion size, as the reference objects are measured as relatively smaller than their true length)

I get that basically nobody is actively maintaining UnOrdinary as a verse here, but John's explosion calcs are extremely highballed. I'd redo them myself but I have like 3 other calcs to finish
 
ElajRuengies said:
Side note- I had to look through John's explosion calcs to see what he scaled to, and just noticed that the pixel scaling on three of them is... questionable, to be polite.

Namely they completely disregard perspective, scale from an object definitely in the background in two cases (meaning it'll appear relatively smaller, so the explpsion will be bigger), and use straight lines from the ground to one's head for character heights, despite said characters often have their knees bent or are not standing up straight.

I get that basically nobody is actively maintaining UnOrdinary as a verse here, but John's explosion calcs are extremely highballed. I'd redo them myself but I have like 3 other calcs to finish
Click to expand...
I can try Later?
 
Acer__ said:
Yeah looking at the second one it’s sketch at best, the way it’s styled clearly does means that the explosion is >400 meters long, and we even have the building used in the first calc (I think at least) in the background
Click to expand...
...
ElajRuengies said:
I don't think anyone's gonna stop you, so sure
Click to expand...
I take this back, I think I might have to stop you /j
I can't believe John's been Small Town level this whole time
 
ElajRuengies said:
Oh wow... but what about the 2nd Calc on the original blog?
(Also, could you put a notice that your ruler app measures things in inches instead of pixels, because I was seriously confused for a second.)
Click to expand...
but also the first one there is the 2nd one on the calc, I just didn’t use two pages and the dust coming off of it to justify it being bigger (I measured from top of the explosion to ground)
 
Acer__ said:
but also the first one there is the 2nd one on the calc, I just didn’t use two pages and the dust coming off of it to justify it being bigger (I measured from top of the explosion to ground)
Click to expand...
[checks again] Ah I see-
My bad, I thought that was the first one.

I guess John and Sera, being well into God Tier category, still prolly upscale way past Gou to baseline 9-A, but still ouch.
 
ElajRuengies said:
Side note- I had to look through John's explosion calcs to see what he scaled to, and just noticed that the pixel scaling on three of them is... questionable, to be polite.

Namely they completely disregard perspective, scale from an object definitely in the background in two cases (meaning it'll appear relatively smaller, so the explosion will be bigger), and use straight lines from the ground to one's head for character heights, despite said characters often having their knees bent and/or are not standing up straight (again inflating the explosion size, as the reference objects are measured as relatively smaller than their true length)

I get that basically nobody is actively maintaining UnOrdinary as a verse here, but John's explosion calcs are extremely highballed. I'd redo them myself but I have like 3 other calcs to finish
Click to expand...
there was an 8-C offsite calc someone brought up a bit ago, you can search it up in the search bar, just find unordinary.
 
John’s ability isn’t exactly “power mimicry” it’s a very advanced “aura manipulation”. There are powers in the Unordinary that even he can’t copy because he is unable to perceive them. However, at the same time he can tell the location of invisible opponents by identifying their aura.

All he’s doing is manipulating his aura to “copy” the way the opponents use their aura to produce their own ability. This explains why he becomes BETTER than them, because he has better control of the aura than even those people, who probably don’t actually understand the concept of aura.

Anyway my point is that if OFA isn’t based on aura or something that functions similarly then John can’t do jack in copying OFA.
 
John cant copy OFA so lets stop harping on that point as it its a discussion.

John gets stomped by the ap difference, which doesnt matter anyways because he’ll prolly get downgraded even further due to shady calcs. Shall i get a mod to close this yall, or do some of you still wanna discuss John’s wincons?
 
Jibz said:
John cant copy OFA so lets stop harping on that point as it its a discussion.

John gets stomped by the ap difference, which doesnt matter anyways because he’ll prolly get downgraded even further due to shady calcs. Shall i get a mod to close this yall, or do some of you still wanna discuss John’s wincons?
Click to expand...
Former
 
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