Isshiki Rod to Reactions Blitzing

[Godernet]

All kishimoto had to do was not write haku is ls and the whole "og naruto is ls therefore boruto adult naruto is mftl+" would never exist.

At best I see them as FTL+

 

[Godernet]

I feel like kishimoto didn't plan for any of this to happen and wrote it as a joke.

Tbf to Kishi. Hakus Mirrors being Light speed doesn’t contradict anything since the only time he ever used it at its best he blitzed Kakashi. Mftl+ Naruto exists because people will use the Hakus mirrors are light speed to mean anything and everything he does is light speed. Similar leap in logic scales happen with OP and Bleach “scalers” on Tik tok for example.

 

[Trax]

Tbf to Kishi. Hakus Mirrors being Light speed doesn’t contradict anything since the only time he ever used it at its best he blitzed Kakashi. Mftl+ Naruto exists because people will use the Hakus mirrors are light speed to mean anything and everything he does is light speed. Similar leap in logic scales happen with OP and Bleach “scalers” on Tik tok for example.

Its possible to get bleach op and naruto to mftl+ sure. But most of the time they do it in ways I never knew existed. Since when was adult kcm 90 millon times faster then light when in shippuden he had a hard time dodging a none ls attack. But the most inconsistent probably is bleach lol. Tiktok scalers are my favorite scalers because I wake up with a goal in striving to never one day say that "saitama is a gag character made to one punch characters therefore he solos anyone"

 

[Trax]

At best I see them as FTL+

Boruto can be FTL+ but someone has to stop these daemon wankers or these boruto stans. They already have boruto above baryon mode naruto.

 

[Godernet]

Its possible to get bleach op and naruto to mftl+ sure. But most of the time they do it in ways I never knew existed. Since when was adult kcm 90 millon times faster then light when in shippuden he had a hard time dodging a none ls attack. But the most inconsistent probably is bleach lol. Tiktok scalers are my favorite scalers because I wake up with a goal in striving to never one day say that "saitama is a gag character made to one punch characters therefore he solos anyone"

There’s just too many people that want to scale their favorites to their highest possible interepation to beat up other verses they dislike it’s so weird tbh.

 

[Trax]

There’s just too many people that want to scale their favorites to their highest possible interepation to beat up other verses they dislike it’s so weird tbh.

They do it and then lowball one piece. Saw people say ryou isn't durability negation but somehow gildrats crash magic is.

 

[Trax]

There’s just too many people that want to scale their favorites to their highest possible interepation to beat up other verses they dislike it’s so weird tbh.

or when you prove them wrong and they try to bring in their own interpretation of what it says. Rather than going with what the context is saying and what its talking about.

 

[Makai641001]

I personally disagree though I can see where you are coming from.

ye

Lore wise there are already many Jutsu by this point that we know are capable of reaching those speeds

double ye

(light fang,

EOS attack that some EOS characters far faster than Raikage can dodge and react too with some precog helping

Haku's mirrors,

Reflexion only nobody react to the reflexion in itself

potentially Darui's laser circus,

i don’t remember exactly

including the Jutsu that literally turns objects into photons and moves them at the speed of light not even a Kekkai Genkai just a regular jutsu used by the cloud to transport things.

If you are talking about Tenso no jutsu i don’t even think the Madara Relativistic calc should exist We should create a thread to downgrade it

Also, Light Fang is generally accepted as light speed from the databook,

Nothing contradicts it + tins light and respect light’s related rules of this wiki

near light speed Raikage shouldn't be treated differently especially since there are no anti feats.

It’s more about him having no FEATS
He is even stated to be below lightning speed in fact + most of these databook are bs and are not even considered especially when they are figures of speech (idk how to say figure de style in english as i’m french but i hope you understand) a simile can be recognized with the help of it’s structure

I understand that the Narutoverse speed for the most part is ambiguous due to the lack of any substantial speed feats in naruto. there's just this huge unquantifiable gap between lightning-speed teen Kakashi and the high tiers. I don't think it's too far-fetched when these Jutsu do exist

I don’t think they don’t exist they Just won’t Scale a lot of persons since said lot of persons didn’t react for most of the manga (I Also don’t think teen Kakashi lightning legend thing is used here)

and the only times a light-speed jutsu was used in a calcable way was Madara and Muu reacting and moving while Tsunade and Ay were approaching them as photons

Which seems more like a huge outlier for Mu that reacts even before Madara
And they react after the flash of light and during the kick (The black girl sending them also said that Current Raikage doesn’t have a body that can support said speed iirc)

and Naruto dodging the Light Fang and neither feat was highlighted by the characters to be particularly something impressive.

ik that doesn’t inherently mean they would scale far beyond even thinking Madara is relativistic (which isn’t the case imo) he was far stronger and faster than any of the Kage a Rel+ Raikage would be weird

(This isn’t me debating the point btw more so just explaining why I think it’s consistent from a power progression and narrative stance.)

I see your point ig it’s just different opinions idk which one would prevail here tho

 

[Makai641001]

Its possible to get bleach op and naruto to mftl+ sure. But most of the time they do it in ways I never knew existed. Since when was adult kcm 90 millon times faster then light when in shippuden he had a hard time dodging a none ls attack. But the most inconsistent probably is bleach lol. Tiktok scalers are my favorite scalers because I wake up with a goal in striving to never one day say that "saitama is a gag character made to one punch characters therefore he solos anyone"

The meta i created for Meliodas Ftl + will possibly soon be used on this wiki either the FTL + or the FTL don’t give up on your Dreams

 

[HADES]

in the end this calculation is the same as stacking, if the one piece calculation is accepted then naruto should get the same treatment

for isshiki iron yes this is quite confusing, but isshiki bars should get Speed Of Light or at least FTL 1.1c, this will be stacking if you think isshiki bars are faster than FTL 2.11c ( naruto case avoids Light Fang )

and i think this should be closed, i see you are just arguing about luffy's calculation, while naruto is not, i'm just saying that if the one piece calculation is accepted then naruto must also be accepted, or we have to consider both stacking if we consider the naruto case it's stacking, because these two calculations are similar

One Piece :
luffy thinks beam kuma (Speed Of Light) is slow, while luffy thinks Raime Hakke is very fast

Naruto :
Canon's way, Isshiki's Iron is faster than Madara's Light Fang which is said to move at the Speed of Light. Naruto in his Sixpath form can dodge Light Fang easily, but when faced with Isshiki's iron, even Sasuke says that the iron moves too fast for him. So as a minimum condition, we will use SoL for the iron speed. This case is used like Kaidou's Thunder Bagua calc.

so basically in the case of naruto, Naruto's Six Path Sage Mode avoids Madara's Light Fang (Speed Of Light), while Naruto's Six Path Sage Mode can't avoid isshiki bars, even Sasuke thinks the isshiki bars are very fast, even though he fought several times with naruto which has a speed of 2.11c FTL, I remind you once again, this will be considered stacking when you consider isshiki bars faster than naruto's reaction which is FTL 2.11c.

That is all from me.

 

[Nierre]

I share the same opinions as Hades.

 

[Godernet]

If you are talking about Tenso no jutsu i don’t even think the Madara Relativistic calc should exist We should create a thread to downgrade it

less about the calc itself and more that the raikage(who was stated to be near light speed) also being able to be flung at light speed without sustaining damage despite the jutsu caster explicitly saying the jutsu couldn't be used on any human(except the third raikage) due to the speed at which they're moving. even tsunade couldn't go through the jutsu without taking damage but both raikage were fine. along with Daruis laser circus and Edo Hakus mirrors still being relevant at this point it feels like IMO light speed was starting to become relevant to near kage lvl characters during the war arc.

Even before the war. we have Kirin calcd at being pretty close to 1% light speed as an actual natural lightning bolt. And Itachi was able to react, activate, and form his susanoo before it hit him despite his injuries and crippling sickness, and blindness. and Kirin was also noted by Sasuke and confirmed by Zetsu to be a near impossible jutsu for characters at that time to avoid similar to Amaterasu. And in the very next arc we have the Raikage dodging Amaterasu comfortably in his V1 lightning cloak. Theres no blatant feats or anti feats for the Raikage, just a statement and a lot of supporting evidence that he could be near light speed like the statement suggests. We also know he's not just lightning speed with inferior characters having lightning speed statements(both in story and databook) and even calcs. It feels more consistent to say the Raikage is Rel+ but that's just my interpretation.

 

[Godernet]

tbh I feel like the rods themselves were never as impressive in speed as the activation speed of jigen/isshikis shrinking jutsu. it feels like every single time it was used Naruto and Sasuke were always taken off guard by how abrupt it was even with the giant cubes. Sasukes analysis of the jutsu was that he manifests the rods shrunken down and released the shrinking jutsu before you even realized its hit you. the rods themselves should be comparable to Isshikis combat speed IMO which is still higher than naruto and sasuke but his shrinking jutsu has outsped their combat and reaction speeds a ridiculous amount of times.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

This thread should be closed and another CRT should be created to deal with other verses that use this method.

 

[Agnaa]

Should it? People are still discussing Naruto here :v

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Ummm, yeah? The OP has been rejected and this thread has been derailed with multiple different topics.

 

[Damage3245]

I do think Wrath's right. This has been rejected from what I can tell. Has any staff member spoken up in support of the OP?

 

[Agnaa]

DueDate said that both the Naruto and the One Piece situation should be treated the same.

 

[HADES]

DueDate said that both the Naruto and the One Piece situation should be treated the same.

i think this should be closed, i see you are just arguing about luffy's calculation, while naruto is not, i'm just saying that if the one piece calculation is accepted then naruto must also be accepted, or we have to consider both stacking if we consider the naruto case it's stacking, because these two calculations are similar

One Piece :
luffy thinks beam kuma (Speed Of Light) is slow, while luffy thinks Raime Hakke is very fast

Naruto :
Canon's way, Isshiki's Iron is faster than Madara's Light Fang which is said to move at the Speed of Light. Naruto in his Sixpath form can dodge Light Fang easily, but when faced with Isshiki's iron, even Sasuke says that the iron moves too fast for him. So as a minimum condition, we will use SoL for the iron speed. This case is used like Kaidou's Thunder Bagua calc.

so basically in the case of naruto, Naruto's Six Path Sage Mode avoids Madara's Light Fang (Speed Of Light), while Naruto's Six Path Sage Mode can't avoid isshiki bars, even Sasuke thinks the isshiki bars are very fast, even though he fought several times with naruto which has a speed of 2.11c FTL, I remind you once again, this will be considered stacking when you consider isshiki bars faster than naruto's reaction which is FTL 2.11c.

 

[Duedate8898]

DueDate said that both the Naruto and the One Piece situation should be treated the same.

Yeah, that's pretty much my only thing about this. I don't see a big enough difference between the two calcs in premise where one would be allowed to stand where the other can't. So as long as TB calc is considered the okay to use, I think this Isshiki calc should be fine as well.

 

[Damage3245]

Well when it comes to what we do with the Thunder Bagua calc, I say we delete that and Kaido ends up still being well above baseline FTL anyway through scaling to Whitebeard who has an FTL calc (or if there is a scaling chain there, to Sanji who has an FTL calc).

 

[HADES]

Yeah, that's pretty much my only thing about this. I don't see a big enough difference between the two calcs in premise where one would be allowed to stand where the other can't. So as long as TB calc is considered the okay to use, I think this Isshiki calc should be fine as well.

Agree with this

 

[HADES]

Well when it comes to what we do with the Thunder Bagua calc, I say we delete that and Kaido ends up still being well above baseline FTL anyway through scaling to Whitebeard who has an FTL calc (or if there is a scaling chain there, to Sanji who has an FTL calc).

or, if this One Piece calculation is still accepted as FTL 8c via raime hakke, then this naruto calculation should be accepted as well.

 

[Duedate8898]

Don't really care either way, though I'm sure Damage's suggestion is more in line with site standards than the latter

 

[KingTempest]

This is just massive derailment at this point. The OP has been rejected and talks of the method should be brought up in a separate. This thread should also be closed.

Permission to close?

or, if this One Piece calculation is still accepted as FTL 8c via raime hakke, then this naruto calculation should be accepted as well.

No, tf, it shouldn't

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Permission to close?

I'm not the OP, but i think this thread has been derailed enough along with the actual OP being rejected so i think it should be closed.

 

[Damage3245]

Since there is overwhelming disagreement for the OP, I'll close the thread.