• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Important suggestions for turning the wiki more professional (Staff only)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Antvasima

Maintenance worker
He/Him
VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
164,607
71,093
Hello.

First, I think that we should encourage inserting regular wiki references for important information into our profile pages to a far greater degree than currently.

It looks far more professional and reliable to our visitors, and makes it much easier for us to verify information, and in addition our pages are currently very vulnerable to when the sources for video and image links are removed, and if the E.U. or the U.S. government puts pressure on Imgur and other image hosting services to use artificial intelligence to remove all of their copyrighted manga and comic book pages, that would be devastating for the entire structural cohesion of our wiki as a whole.

We already have a references section in our Standard Format for Character Profiles page, but so far it has not seemed to remotely have done a good enough job with encouraging our members in this regard. Perhaps we should remove the "Optional" part from that and the top illustration image for the page? It is obviously unrealistic to remotely start enforcing the principle to the degree of wiping out the 99% of our wiki pages that lack reference sections, but it might nevertheless make an important point regarding that this is the much preferred format from now onward.

We also need to adjust our Editing Rules and Welcome Message pages in an appropriate manner. Suggestions for how to word our stricter rules would be very appreciated.

Secondly, the punctuation in the statistics sections of our character profile pages technically does not really make much sense, and we have mainly maintained the format out of habit, since that it is how we have always done things since long before even I joined the wiki. It could be argued to be stylistically appealing of course, but ultimately it also looks rather weird and unprofessional. Mind you, I am not the best to ask about proper English punctuation, so help with suggestions would be appreciated, and our Common Editing Mistakes obviously needs to be updated with adjusted instructions. Competent volunteer help with this would also be very appreciated.

So, what do you all think?


NOTE: STAFF ONLY
 
I love this idea.

Too many times have either the source of the information is hard to find or people don't have time to dig for context. If I had a chapter to look at when.I needed something like this, it would help tremendously.

I agree with this, but this would be a huge project.
 
References are desperately needed for a lot of pages I believe, and would be solved gradually I expect by encouraging more references be added.

On the topic of making pages more professional, I think that allowing pages to change the presentation of the Powers & Abilities section would be greatly beneficial in improving the clarity of those areas. A lot like how we do with the "Notable Attacks" section.

Imagine if the Notable Attacks section was structured like our current powers section and Goku's page looked like:

Kamehameha, Instant Transmission, Kaio-ken, Spirit Bomb, Kiai, Kienzan, Solar Flare, Telepathy, Mafuba, etc.

I'm not demanding we do a verse-wide overhaul, but stopping all pages from being forced to share the same wall of text format would be a boon.
 
I 100% agree with adding references as less optional. I’ve been trying to make a habit out of it myself.

Questions about it, however.

1. What is the format of adding references for a movie? Add the time stamp for each scaling or ability?

2. What about the format for Books? The page number only or adding the paragraph on the page?

3. While Comics are easy (add the comic and the issue #),

* What if multiple abilities and scaling comes from a single issue? Do we add the page in the reference as well?

* Or do we reference the same issue multiple times, along with the page number?

4. Video Games are also another thing for references I’m not sure how the format structure should be as, since abilities and when they are used is determined by the player.
 
Last edited:
Secondly, the punctuation in the statistics sections of our character profile pages technically does not really make much sense, and we have mainly maintained the format out of habit, since that it is how we have always done things since long before even I joined the wiki. It could be argued to be stylistically appealing of course, but ultimately it also looks rather weird and unprofessional.

I’m fine with no punctuation. I actually find P&A and Statistics with multiple punctuations distracting on the eyes when “),” acts just fine as a substitute.

Tho, sentences for explaining abilities in the “Intelligence” section and “Notable abilities/techniques” section should still have punctuations, since they are built to contain long explanations and paragraphs.
 
I love this idea.

Too many times have either the source of the information is hard to find or people don't have time to dig for context. If I had a chapter to look at when.I needed something like this, it would help tremendously.

I agree with this, but this would be a huge project.
It would have to be done gradually over the span of years, but we still really need to actively encourage it any way we can short of starting to delete lots of pages.
 
References are desperately needed for a lot of pages I believe, and would be solved gradually I expect by encouraging more references be added.

On the topic of making pages more professional, I think that allowing pages to change the presentation of the Powers & Abilities section would be greatly beneficial in improving the clarity of those areas. A lot like how we do with the "Notable Attacks" section.

Imagine if the Notable Attacks section was structured like our current powers section and Goku's page looked like:

Kamehameha, Instant Transmission, Kaio-ken, Spirit Bomb, Kiai, Kienzan, Solar Flare, Telepathy, Mafuba, etc.

I'm not demanding we do a verse-wide overhaul, but stopping all pages from being forced to share the same wall of text format would be a boon.
I am also not fond of the wall of text format. I am just not sure if bullet point lists are realistic to apply for characters with 30-60 powers or more, or if bullet points even work within tabbers.
 
I'm down with better references, but I guess a good example of what the OP means by that would be nice

Like links to statements or something more substantial?
It is just standard reference sections at the bottoms of the pages, like in Wikipedia. Check out the standard format link that I provided in my first post for the code system that is required to do so.
 
I am also not fond of the wall of text format. I am just not sure if bullet point lists are realistic to apply for characters with 30-60 powers or more, or if bullet points even work within tabbers.
Bullet points can work within tabbers.

For characters for massive lists of powers, there might be a workaround we can employ for it, but for the majority of profiles I think they wouldn't have any issue.

Tabbers that split resistances from powers are one example of a workaround for long lists. And tabbers for separating abilities based on keys.
 
I 100% agree with adding references as less optional. I’ve been trying to make a habit out of it myself.

Questions about it, however.

1. What are is the format of adding references for a movie? Add the time stamp for each scaling or ability?
Time stamps seems like a good idea.
2. What about the format for Books? The page number only or adding the paragraph on the page?
The page number should be enough.
3. While Comics are easy (add the comic and the issue #)
That is correct, yes.
* What if multiple abilities and scaling comes from a single issue? Do we add the page in the reference as well?

* Or do we reference the same issue multiple times, along with the page number?
Using the same reference multiple times should be enough. The code instructions are available in our standard format for character profiles page. Just the comic book, year, and issue number should probably be enough.
4. Video Games are also another thing for references I’m not sure how the format structure should be as, since abilities and when they are used is determined by the player.
I am not sure about how to handle video games either, unless the chapters/parts of the games have names. We might just have to mention each game title and leave it at that.
 
I guess a non-optional reference section is fine if we don't enforce it. Although... I'm not sure if it makes sense for it to be mandatory if respect threads or extensive feats sections already exist, fulfilling the same purpose.

I'm not quite sure what you mean regarding punctuation not making sense.
 
I don't agree with making references obligatory simply because they'd be pretty redundant on videogame profiles, especially since there's various profiles that are about characters from a single videogame. And overall not enforcing it equals to making it optional, so it wouldn't change anything.
 
I’m fine with no punctuation. I actually find P&A and Statistics with multiple punctuations distracting on the eyes when “),” acts just fine as a substitute.

Tho, sentences for explaining abilities in the “Intelligence” section and “Notable abilities/techniques” section should still have punctuations, since they are built to contain long explanations and paragraphs.
Yes, we should obviously use punctuation in the pure standard text sections. The other ones are currently not as strict in this regard. I am just uneasy with that we currently use no punctuation marks after sentences within parentheses. It looks kind of weird.

As a dumb example: "Attack Potency: Small Building level (He can destroy a train in one blow, and can punch a hole in a steel wall. He also scales from this character)"

The first sentence uses punctuation marks at the end, and the second does not.
 
Bullet points can work within tabbers.

For characters for massive lists of powers, there might be a workaround we can employ for it, but for the majority of profiles I think they wouldn't have any issue.

Tabbers that split resistances from powers are one example of a workaround for long lists. And tabbers for separating abilities based on keys.
Okay. Then I am very open regarding this suggestion. It would also have to be a very gradual project though.
 
I guess a non-optional reference section is fine if we don't enforce it. Although... I'm not sure if it makes sense for it to be mandatory if respect threads or extensive feats sections already exist, fulfilling the same purpose.
The problem is that we are currently far too dependent on linking to largely out of context copyrighted comic book scans. Beyond that this is not a proper encyclopaedic format, it makes us extremely vulnerable to having our entire wiki devastated in one blow by harsher copyright laws that Imgur, Fandom, and other sites eventually quickly have to adapt to.
I'm not quite sure what you mean regarding punctuation not making sense.
Please see my second to last post above.
 
I don't think it's worth to waste time on such a huge revision that is nothing but an aesthetic change in the end, especially when there's other site-wide stuff waiting for its turn which is probably way more important. The tabber stuff I mean
 
I don't agree with making references obligatory simply because they'd be pretty redundant on videogame profiles, especially since there's various profiles that are about characters from a single videogame. And overall not enforcing it equals to making it optional, so it wouldn't change anything.
We have to actively heavily encourage this, both for the sake of professionalism and our longtime survival, as I have explained previously.
 
I am in agreement regarding using references as much as we can in comic and manga pages. For games, it would be problematic. Linking scans in description and using references at the same time is a good combination, I feel. Because direct scans save a lot of time and it's easier to fact-check information. While references make us look professional and in the event some scan/video is taken down, it will act as a good backup and we can replace it immediately using that info.

As for the punctuation, I don't mind the current format that much. But we'll have to restructure all our standard formats and then new pages will look inconsistent when compared to old pages. The reward here is very little.

But yes, these need to be gradual changes in any case.
 
I don't think it's worth to waste time on such a huge revision that is nothing but an aesthetic change in the end, especially when there's other site-wide stuff waiting for its turn which is probably way more important. The tabber stuff I mean
I'm not asking anyone else to commit themselves to revising the profiles in this manner. Just to make it an option for people.
 
I am in agreement regarding using references as much as we can in comic and manga pages. For games, it would be problematic. Linking scans in description and using references at the same time is a good combination, I feel. Because direct scans save a lot of time and it's easier to fact-check information. While references make us look professional and in the event some scan/video is taken down, it will act as a good backup and we can replace it immediately using that info.
Yes, exactly, but for games, it is less important, yes, at least for the characters that have not had a lot of such appearances.
As for the punctuation, I don't mind the current format that much. But we'll have to restructure all our standard formats and then new pages will look inconsistent when compared to old pages. The reward here is very little.
Yes, it is not a big problem. I just think that we should change our standard instructions a bit in this regard.
But yes, these need to be gradual changes in any case.
Agreed.
 
References really don't work for me, i link scans for basically every profile i make, but when i try to add references on top of that, where multiple abilities are from the same chapter, and the character has a lot of abilities, it doesn't work. Might be too complicated for a regular user to figure out, if even i have problems with it.

This is totally unnecessary for visual novels i feel, since the scans speak for themselves most of time, and if it's something complicated, i would just make an album with imgur, though i get that those sites could someday remove it.

Don't think references work for films or video games either.
 
I agree with this. I think we should make references as close as mandatory as possible for things that are easy to reference such as books (chapters), comics (issues) series (season/episode number), etc. But make it non-mandatory/exclusion for things that are more difficult to use as reference, like games and films. However, if a game has levels or quests, or similar, those should be referenced. And if it's a big film franchise/anthology film, those should be referenced as well. Listing specific page numbers for books and timestamps for films shouldn't be a thing because it kind of depends on which version you're watching/reading from, so you can have disparity for what's shown, so that should be avoided. An obvious exception would be something like a web novel or something which is only one official point of reference.
 
I don't think it's worth to waste time on such a huge revision that is nothing but an aesthetic change in the end, especially when there's other site-wide stuff waiting for its turn which is probably way more important. The tabber stuff I mean
We are not going to start a massive revision project for this either, but if we revise the instructions in our standard format for character profiles page, it would encourage our members to gradually improve the structure of our pages in this regard.
 
References really don't work for me, i link scans for basically every profile i make, but when i try to add references on top of that, where multiple abilities are from the same chapter, and the character has a lot of abilities, it doesn't work. Might be too complicated for a regular user to figure out, if even i have problems with it.

This is totally unnecessary for visual novels i feel, since the scans speak foe themselves most of time, and if it's something complicated, i would just make an album with imgur, though i get that those sites could someday remove it.
Well, beyond what I mentioned earlier, virtually all of the other most popular wikis in Fandom use references, so we currently stand out as the outwardly seemingly least professional major wiki. We would drastically improve the general opinion about us if we use references as a complement to image links, and it is rather simple to follow the instructions in our standard format page.
 
For example, here is the current version of the list of abilities on Acacia's page. A bit of a mess.

Here is a modified version of that; demonstrably much more legible. It even makes it possible to identify some abilities that are lack in justifications. And I haven't even finished making it neater yet.
Thank you. That looks considerably better, yes.
 
I agree with this. I think we should make references as close as mandatory as possible for things that are easy to reference such as books (chapters), comics (issues) series (season/episode number), etc. But make it non-mandatory/exclusion for things that are more difficult to use as reference, like games and films. However, if a game has levels or quests, or similar, those should be referenced. And if it's a big film franchise/anthology film, those should be referenced as well. Listing specific page numbers for books and timestamps for films shouldn't be a thing because it kind of depends on which version you're watching/reading from, so you can have disparity for what's shown, so that should be avoided. An obvious exception would be something like a web novel or something which is only one official point of reference.
Agreed.
 
For example, here is the current version of the list of abilities on Acacia's page. A bit of a mess.

Here is a modified version of that; demonstrably much more legible. It even makes it possible to identify some abilities that are lack in justifications. And I haven't even finished making it neater yet.
Thing is, that page has a lot of explanation in the P&A section. IMO that's not were explanations should go. The P&A should be a summary of the general categories for powers, while Notable A/T section is for explanations and the feats/explanations/reference sections are for giving references and stuff.

Like, let me show a comparision for a page that uses the approach of explanations mostly being kept in te notable A/T section:
This is the current profile, with a simple list of abilities.
This is the profile with tabber and bullet points.

IMO having one line for 1 or 2 words each seems incredibly empty. It's also comparatively long. As such it pushes the main content of the page, i.e. the stats, into the middle/bottom area. I think from a design standpoint that's not ideal. Furthermore, due to being so long, I can't have all abilities on the screen at once and have to scroll even just to quickly skim them.
Personally I'm also not much in favor of using tabbers unless absolutely necessary due to the sheer length. They likewise make it harder to get an overview of a character, since you can't view all abilities at once. No jokes: When I'm debating a character with like 3 keys in tabbers and split Resistances on top, I often click the edit button to be able to see everything the character can do at once in the source code. That also has the advantage that I can crtl+f for stuff, which tabbers likewise don't allow.
 
IMO having one line for 1 or 2 words each seems incredibly empty. It's also comparatively long.

In my experience, a lot of pages are not like that. But I see your point.
 
I mean, if we use/don't use tabbers depending on which fits the page batter, can't we do the same with bullet points/the current approach?

Also I disagree with the "Notable A/T section is for explanations" idea, a lot of P&A can't be explained easily in NA/T and most profiles I've seen use P&A for most of their explaining.
 
I agree with Armorchompy and DT regarding not making reference lists for video games and movies, they'd be far too spread out between unless absolutely necessary.

Reference lists for comic books, manga and novels should be fine tho, it should be a must in those cases.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top