I think i am a bit confused on Acausality Type 4 vs Type 5....

[TheUnshakableOne]

Am I just over thinking this?

Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.

Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of the causality of a system. Even interacting with them normally may prove virtually impossible.[/B]

The wording here sounds very similar

Type 4 says = "operate on a different irregular system"

Type 5 says = "Transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of causality of a system"

Keyword for Type 5 would be "normal boundaries" and the "A system" when by virtue Type 4 should already be "beyond a normal singular system of causality"

Type 5 seems to imply the same thing with its wording to me

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The wording to me sounds basically the same for both. Though, i've seen it treated differently on CRT's and vsmatches.

The way i am understanding it through observation is like this;

Type 4 is like a layered system. One system of causality being a greater feat than the one below it but they are still bound by a higher system of causality. The character just moved up a level from 3rd to 4th,

Whereas; Type 5 seems like to me to be Transcending/beyond/outside of all layers of causality (higher and lower) as a whole. Not just "A (singular) system" or "the normal boundaries of..."

My question.) Am I overthinking, over complicating, this? or does the types need reworded?

Question 2.) is it safe to assume that the systems of Causality work similarly, or possibly be conjoined to higher axis of movements (Higher dimensions)??

hopefully i phrased these questions well....... I had a hard time with trying to phrase this.. gave myself a headache trying to think about this for 2 hours...

 

[deonment]

is it safe to assume that the systems of Causality work similarly, or possibly be conjoined to higher axis of movements (Higher dimensions)

depends on how they are described in verse. cause for example
verse a could have it that the two different systems are completely alien and function in utterly different ways
while verse b could have it that the systems are similar yes, but have differences in certain areas that cause them to be functionally different
and verse c could have it so each higher dimension has it's own system of causality that is transcendent over the last
so it really depends on how it works in verse

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

depends on how they are described in verse. cause for example
verse a could have it that the two different systems are completely alien and function in utterly different ways
while verse b could have it that the systems are similar yes, but have differences in certain areas that cause them to be functionally different
and verse c could have it so each higher dimension has it's own system of causality that is transcendent over the last
so it really depends on how it works in verse

All of that is Type 4 according to what I have learned

but what i been seeing; apparently being unbounded/transcend/outside of/ or an irregular (different, inconsistent, weird) flowing/flow of the axis of time (4th dimension) = Type 4

and from what i seen 97% of fiction has it casue and effect (causality) inextricably linked to time... So it would make sense to me that is to have Cause and effect be some sort of axis of movement (that axis being the 4th dimension) but i could be wrong..


maybe there is an uncountable amount of layers of causality..

The wording in general to me is just... odd... on the acausality page considering how its treated..

All of this is just my opinoin though maybe im horribly misunderstanding something

 

[Bernkastelll]

from what I could understand
Type 4 is like you operate on a different/irregular cause and effect
Type 5 is when u transcend the concept of cause and effect

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

from what I could understand
Type 4 is like you operate on a different/irregular cause and effect
Type 5 is when u transcend the concept of cause and effect

The way im interpreting it from the acausality page they both appear to be the same just worded differently but we treat it differently in practice

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The way the page phrases it and how i interpret it

Type 4 says = "operate on a different irregular system"

Type 5 says = "Transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of causality of a system"

Keyword for Type 5 would be "normal boundaries" and the "A system" when by virtue Type 4 should already be "beyond a normal singular system of causality"

Type 5 seems to imply the same as Type 4 A singular system of NORMAL causality

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What i observed of how it is put into practice on CRT's and vsmatches

Type 4 is like a layered system. One system of causality being a greater feat than the one below it but they are still bound by a higher system of causality. The character just moved up a level from 3rd to 4th,

Whereas; Type 5 seems like to me to be Transcending/beyond/outside of all layers of causality (higher and lower) as a whole. Not just "A (singular) system" or "the normal boundaries of..."

 

[Everything12]

Type 5 is when you have evidence that being outside Causality means that

Cause: Someone punches you Effect: You are hurt

Doesn't apply to them, any other case of statements of being outside Causality gives Type 4.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Type 5 is when you have evidence that being outside Causality means that

Doesn't apply to them, any other case of statements of being outside Causality gives Type 4.

I am sorry to ask of this..... but... could I ask you to rephrase that...

 

[Everything12]

If your character has statements of being outside Causality but is still Effected by stuff like being punched or other such Causes then they aren't truly beyond Causality.

That's what differentiates 4 and 5, whether you have feats of the pseudo-Invulnerability that being outside Causality logically gives or you just have statements of being outside Causality.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

If your character has statements of being outside Causality but is still Effected by stuff like being punched or other such Causes then they aren't truly beyond Causality.

That's what differentiates 4 and 5, whether you have feats of the pseudo-Invulnerability that being outside Causality logically gives or you just have statements of being outside Causality.

I think my misunderstanding stems from the wording on the acausality page vs the way ot is practice/put into use.

The way the "Types" read makes it appear as if there is an unquantifiable number of causal systems

Type 4 means that X-Character follows a different, irregular, higher causal system than the normal humans. But still bound by even higher casual systems

Type 5 is complete transcendence of all causal systems. Completemy free of all causal systems as and whole..

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When reading type 4 and 5 on the acausality page. It appears to be saying the same thing as each other but in practice/put into use/ we treat them differently. This is probably what's confusing me...

Or maybe I'm just over thinking and over complicating things lol

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Copying and paste things on this thread

Type 4 says = "operate on a different irregular system"

Type 5 says = "Transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of causality of a system"

Keyword for Type 5 would be "normal boundaries" and the "A system" when by virtue Type 4 should already be "beyond a normal singular system of causality"

Type 5 seems to imply the same as Type 4 = A singular system of normal causality


Edit: I'm also very sorry if I annoy you or come off rude.. I don't mean too..

 

[Cloozuma]

I think my misunderstanding stems from the wording on the acausality page vs the way ot is practice/put into use.

The way the "Types" read makes it appear as if there is an unquantifiable number of causal systems

Type 4 means that X-Character follows a different, irregular, higher causal system than the normal humans. But still bound by even higher casual systems

Type 5 is complete transcendence of all causal systems. Completemy free of all causal systems as and whole..

---

When reading type 4 and 5 on the acausality page. It appears to be saying the same thing as each other but in practice/put into use/ we treat them differently. This is probably what's confusing me...

Or maybe I'm just over thinking and over complicating things lol

---

Copying and paste things on this thread

Type 4 says = "operate on a different irregular system"

Type 5 says = "Transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of causality of a system"

Keyword for Type 5 would be "normal boundaries" and the "A system" when by virtue Type 4 should already be "beyond a normal singular system of causality"

Type 5 seems to imply the same as Type 4 = A singular system of normal causality


Edit: I'm also very sorry if I annoy you or come off rude.. I don't mean too..

Ight this should be necro but I want to say this:

Type 4 makes you work on irregular systems of cause and effect, meaning you are still bound by cause and effect but outside the normal system for it.

Type 5 is when you transcend cause and effect itself, meaning all abilities related to cause and effect are useless against you.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Overall my point is the wording is misleading on the types

What we preach is not what is stated on the definition from the way it reads imo

 

[Cloozuma]

Overall my point is the wording is misleading on the types

What we preach is not what is stated on the definition from the way it reads imo

Should be honestly

 

[Kavliaris]

Ight this should be necro but I want to say this:

Type 4 makes you work on irregular systems of cause and effect, meaning you are still bound by cause and effect but outside the normal system for it.

Type 5 is when you transcend cause and effect itself, meaning all abilities related to cause and effect are useless against you.

what about 2 being Acausality 5 attacking each other? their attacks still work?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Tbf type 5 Acausality just seem to be as useless as how old 1-A was treated.

 

[Darksmash]

The definitions are pretty straightforward to understand

Type 4 exists on irregular systems of cause and effect, while type 5 transcends cause and effect as a whole

Just think of the difference between existing in different realities with different laws(Type 4) and transcending reality and it's laws completely(Type 5)

 

[Everything12]

@Yuri
Considering that none of the Types deals with Acausality where such things as the Cause of being punched does not Effect you with damage, I would have to disagree.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The definitions are pretty straightforward to understand

Type 4 exists on irregular systems of cause and effect, while type 5 transcends cause and effect as a whole

Just think of the difference between existing in different realities with different laws(Type 4) and transcending reality and it's laws completely(Type 5)

Type 4 says = "operate on a different irregular system"

Type 5 says = "Transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of causality of a system"

Keyword for Type 5 would be "normal boundaries" and the "A system" That implies "transcend one local system of causality" when by virtue Type 4 should already be "beyond a normal/regular singular (One local) system of causality"

Type 5 seems to imply the same as Type 4 = A singular system of normal causality

All im saying is the definitions on those 2 types on the page means the same thing when you take a closer look at the English grammar, but we treat them differently. (im not an english major though so don't kill me)

Also, unpopular opinoin but type 2 should be type 4

 

[Darksmash]

Keyword for Type 5 would be "normal boundaries" and the "A system" That implies "transcend one local system of causality" when by virtue Type 4 should already be "beyond a normal/regular singular (One local) system of causality"

The issue is you are assuming that "irregular system of cause and effect" entails a transcendent superiority over regular cause and effect, when that isn't the case here. Irregular here is just something that isn't normal.

Also sorry for late reply

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The issue is you are assuming that "irregular system of cause and effect" entails a transcendent superiority over regular cause and effect, when that isn't the case here. Irregular here is just something that isn't normal.

Also sorry for late reply

That implies type 5 is still bound by a level of cause and effect, no?

 

[StekFence]

it sounds like type 4 entails a different system of cause and effect. It’s a weird and unnatural system, but still a system. Type 5 just isn’t concerned with puny things like cause and effect. That’s whT I see

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

it sounds like type 4 entails a different system of cause and effect. It’s a weird and unnatural system, but still a system. Type 5 just isn’t concerned with puny things like cause and effect. That’s whT I see

That's exactly how ots treated on the wiki but in my opinion the definition makes it seem to imply the same thing

 

[Loyd]

im not seeing it.
Type 4 irregular, out of order, warped, different causality system
Type 5 beyond, unbound by it entirely.

 

[StekFence]

That's exactly how ots treated on the wiki but in my opinion the definition makes it seem to imply the same thing

Hm. I can see where it could be hard to tell the difference in specific instances, but the definitions themselves seem distinct enough

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Type 4 says

= "operate on a different irregular system"

Type 5 says = "Transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of causality of a system"

Keyword for Type 5 would be "normal boundaries" and the "A system" That implies "transcend one local system of causality" when by virtue Type 4 should already be "beyond a normal/regular singular (One local) system of causality"

Type 5 seems to imply the same as Type 4 = A singular system of normal causality

All im saying is the definitions on those 2 types on the page means the same thing when you take a closer look at the English grammar, but we treat them differently. (im not an english major though so don't kill me)

Also, unpopular opinoin but type 2 should be type

It is just a minor issue with the definition so it's not a super big deal. Just me being overly critical lol

 

[Cloozuma]

It is just a minor issue with the definition so it's not a super big deal. Just me being overly critical lol

Should be able to create a minor CRT about the definition ngl

 

[Loyd]

oh i was also confused and iirc bought up this issue aswell just not as elaborate on another thread

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

oh i was also confused and iirc bought up this issue aswell just not as elaborate on another thread

Link to the thread? I'm just curious os all

 

[Loyd]

it was this thread iirc bought up during a Joker vs Tzeentch Fantasy ofc

https://vsbattles.com/threads/warhammer-fantasy-acausality-type-5.115642/#post-3724616

 

[Darksmash]

That implies type 5 is still bound by a level of cause and effect, no?

I mean that's obvious. It's a basic assumption that a fictional character that transcends cause and effect will still fall under some higher system of cause and effect. Because if they don't then they would have been fundamentally impossible to interact with and battles would have been impossible.