I don't get how the tiering works.

[Bullza]

It doesn't make any sense to me.

Super Saiyan God Goku was listed at being multi galaxy level based on the shockwave punch thing with Beerus. I get that. When Goku turned back into a Super Saiyan he said he wasn't any weaker than before and carried on putting up a good fight.

Simple enough SSJ and SSJG Goku are equal strenght.

But then say for example Black. Well they said he was stronger than SSJ3 Goku.....but he's listed as being solar system level...

So if SSJG/SSJ Goku was listed at being multi galaxy level then why are these others characters who are of a similiar strenght also like Magetta and SSJ Cabba and Zamasu and Trunks listed as being far weaker?

That makes no sense.

 

[Antvasima]

Because Piccolo was able to put up a fight against Frost, and it makes no sense for him to have suddenly reached Multi-Galaxy level.

The ratings do not make sense due to the writers of DB Super regularly ignoring the ridiculously high gaps of power between different characters, so there is no way to rate them properly without contradictions.

 

[Ryukama]

If we're to go by Universe 6 scaling, Piccolo and nerdy, retired Gohan could've performed the DBS ep 12 clash. That makes absolutely no sense.

There is also the fact that when Goku was so weakened he couldn't even fly, he stated "I am so in such a weak state, Piccolo could defeat me right now." Even though Piccolo should be comparable to Goku's Super Saiyan God form.

Scaling in DBS is ridiculous right now. And we're forced to go with the more conservative, somewhat less contradictory stance.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

We're trying to make sense of powerscaling DBS with logical reasoning, which the writers of the show don't care about in the slightest. Thus you see the tiers as it is

 

[Antvasima]

Since this topic seems to pop up a lot, perhaps somebody should write a note explaining this in the Dragon Ball verse page?

Would you be interested in doing this Ryukama?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

The staff said they have been over this all ready and say there are to many inconsistences regarded the hole SSJGoku=SSJGGoku and have chosen to not scale anyone from that. Goku & Vegeta are 4-B in their base form because copy vegeta in base defeated ss3 gotank and copy vegeta is just as strong as normal vegeta. So all the universe six characters are scaled from them with the exception of Hit because he fought both goku and vegeta in their SSB forms. Goku and vegeta where not shown using god ki when fighting Magetta, Cabba, Frost, Zamasu or Black so they cannot be put at multi galaxy level. Also the staff say they are pretty tired of discussing this. They will not upgrade them unless it can be proven that goku and vegeta where using god ki to fight them.

 

[Ryukama]

@Ant. How does this sound?

"Please do not attempt to upgrade Universe 6 fighters or similiar characters due to base Goku being equal to SSG. This topic has been discussed literally tens of times now and the verdict will always remain the same. Scaling like this would lead to far too many outlandish inconsistencies like Piccolo and retired Gohan being able to do the episode 12 universe clash. While the way we currently scale the characters is not perfect, it is by far the best solution to the illogical plotholes DBS has given us."

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose something like that should be okay, although a few explanations of the inconsistencies would be better.

 

[Ryukama]

I thought the Piccolo or Gohan being on such ridiculously high levels was good. Do you mean more examples or specifically why that would be inconsistent?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I meant a mention of Piccolo standing up to Frost, and retired Gohan matching him, as well as any other inconsistencies that I may have forgotten.

 

[Ryukama]

"Scaling like this would lead to far too many outlandish inconsistencies like Piccolo and retired Gohan being able to do the episode 12 universe clash. Due to things like Piccolo being able to hold his own against Frost who was almost on par with SSJ1 Goku. Gohan matching Piccolo. Or Cabba being on the level of God Ki users despite never knowing what Super Saiyan was."

Something like this? I thought it'd be best to keep the rule rather short and simple.

If other staff have suggestions on how the rule should be written I'd appreciate it.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. That seems mostly fine.

 

[The_Everlasting]

This has to do with something I was thinking about, with scaling for Final Form Frieza in DBS.

Simply put, there is a form called "Saiyan Beyond God" where Goku taps into his God Ki and the power of his Super Saiyan God form without actually transforming. This is most evident when he transforms into Super Saiyan Blue as opposed to just Super Saiyan like he did in the Universe 6 Tournament (It's likely he didn't use God Ki in the tournament so he'd actually have fair fights against his opponents, hence why he goes Super Saiyan against them, Trunks and Black). Which would make Final Form DBS Frieza "At least 3-B".

Just to be clear, this would not scale to anyone else, just Frieza.

 

[Antvasima]

I thought that Fireza already was placed in the "At least 3-B" tier?

Anyway, I think that Ryukama can probably insert his latest text as a note in the regular Dragon Ball verse page.

 

[The_Everlasting]

He has that rating for Golden Frieza, not his Final Form.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Misunderstanding on my part. I thought that was what you meant.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I think that such an interpretation (that Goku is sometimes 3-B and sometimes 4-B in base), may be too complicated to convey in our profiles, and it would be hard to gauge for which characters that it should be applied.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I think the simplest way to tell is if Goku transforms into Super Saiyan Blue or just Super Saiyan (Barring his fight with Beerus, probably because he didn't master his God Ki). If it's the former, he's in Saiyan Beyond God, if it's the latter, he's in base.

Though, you are right, it may be too complicated to convey.

 

[Bullza]

What's this about piccolo being as strong as Super Saiyan god he only put up the fight against Frost because they said he fought defensively and strategically and they used an attack that was beyond his normal limits that's it

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Piccolo is not as strong as Frost, though by fighting defensively, he was able to put up an actual fight, which he would not have come even remotely close to if Frost was as strong or stronger than SSG Goku. Frost literally would have blinked in Piccolo's general direction and KO'd him.

 

[Bullza]

Piccolo is a strong as base Gohan who is as strong as Tagoma. Yeah it would have made more sense if Frost had poked piccolo and he fell unconscious but nobody wants to we a fight like that so they made it entertaining and explained why he was able to put up a decent fight against someone he was supposed to have no chance of beating.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That's the thing, though. 4-B is such a wide tier, Frost could be millions of times superior to Piccolo (which he didn't seem to be at all) and still be within 4-B. Frost never took on one of Goku's God forms, so unlike Hit, we can not automatically give him scaling, which makes sense, since the rest of the team was viewed as relative fodder next to the hitman.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

^This and Piccolo didn't get much training at all but he was still able to keep up with Frost. So that's like saying Piccolo without any training is Multi-Galactic, which would be crazy not to mention that Universe 6 powerscaling is rekt either way with the exception of Hit.

 

[Antvasima]

So, has Ryukama's text segment been inserted as an explanation note in the Dragon Ball page?

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Nope i don't think it has been inserted yet.

 

[Antvasima]

I will do so.

 

[Master_Xar]

Wasn't it said that Frost was worn out from his fight with Goku? If I remember correctly he said he was only still going by will alone, that hints at a substantial decrease, plus the spar between Gohan and Piccolo is too brief to compare their strength

 

[Antvasima]

No, Frost did not appear particularly worn out during the fight, and base Gohan and Piccolo were clearly shown as tied.

 

[Ryukama]

Being exhausted does not decrease your power by the tens of decillions.

 

[Strmix]

It doesn't make sense how their base is just SS,then Goku goes KKx10 and he is universal and he became stronger maybe few thousand times and by this site logic he should still be just solar system

 

[Antvasima]

Again, it is the show's writers that do not display much logic in this case, not ourselves. We are just trying to make the best of the situation.

 

[Huesito88]

Goku can uses his God ki or not and when he frought frost he wasn't but when he fought hit he did

 

[Strmix]

Goku can uses his God ki or not and when he frought frost he wasn't but when he fought hit he did

after ssj god expired againt beerus he didn't use god ki

God ki won't make you magically stronger,it just can't be sensed

 

[Antvasima]

Since the question has been answered, I will close this thread.