I am new to this so here is my first matchup

[Akreious]

It does not say timeline erasure like it does for on asriel's page. I am not stating he cannot erase timelines I am saying that they probably should had wrote he had timeline erasure on his page like asriel because it is not listed.

Hover over the link for Asriel's Timeline Erasure. It's simply Existence Erasure. Zen'o does not need Timeline Erasure listed on his page because he can Erase things other than just Timelines; he can erase specific people and specific things.

 

[Kensaka]

So than this match would be an incon because Asriel would survive erasure by coming back even if Zen'ō erases his save because loading has worked after timeline erasure or either Asriel because he can load even after his save destroyed and always before the point Zen'ō can erase him and absorb his soul while loading

 

[Theuser789]

Load still worked after timeline erasure, heck Asriel's enitire plan was to destroy the timeline, then reset everything again, over and over, so Zeno destroying the timeline wouldn't do anything to stop it at all, especialy since the save point would still exist before the timeline was erased, it's time manip after all

Zeno can't put Asriel down, so Asriel has literaly infinite tries to kill Zeno

 

[Akreious]

"Load still worked after timeline erasure, heck Asriel's enitire plan was to destroy the timeline, then reset everything again, over and over, so Zeno destroying the timeline wouldn't do anything to stop it at all, especialy since the save point would still exist before the timeline was erased, it's time manip after all"

Please explain to me why SAVES are considered Timelines then because it seems like destroying Timelines (Saves) would be a good counter to someone... using a Save.

"At least Low Multiverse level, likely Multiverse level (Completely overpowered Frisk's Determination, allowing him to completely obliterate Frisk's last SAVE. It should be noted that SAVEs are entire timelines, meaning he completely undid all of Frisk's progress. Created many SAVEs during his fight with Frisk, just so he could hit them if he had missed or so he could have the joy of watching Frisk die as many times as he wanted. Flowey also performed Chara's game destroying feat, and was directly stated to be more powerful than the child. Omega Flowey being more powerful than Chara is also supported by the fact he is supposedly "Lvl 9999", while Chara only reaches lvl 20" - Flowey's Page

So unless you can tell me that somehow SAVES are anything but what's listed on the pages, Zen'o would be fully well capable of erasing the Saves via being a casual Timeline Eraser.

Also your last point of "It's time manip after all" doesn't counter my argument AT ALL. Time needs to be a thing for you to manipulate. No Time = No Time Manipulation. There would be NO save point that still exists before the Timeline was erased because there is no timeline.

 

[Theuser789]

Cool wall of text, doesn't change the fact Asriel destroyed his own timeline yet could still save and would have reset, and each save being a timeline is being discussed by staff, with some disagreeing that each save and load is a timeline iirc, plus using Flowey's profile as a example is pretty bad when he was supposed to be downgraded ages ago

Plus load is automatic via dead, so Asriel would load the moment Zeno kills him but before the timeline was fully erased if that actualy could stop it, which even in verse it can't

 

[Kensaka]

Save are actually alternative time lines because when the player died in the game, they would resurrect in a NEW TIMELINE because in the other timeline they died and the player does not completely die in the game, hence the point they loaded will be a new timeline the player did not die (basically load to the point you savedbefore the player has died). Even if you do not save and die you go right to the beginning making a whole new save. And destroying someone's save doesn't mean it is completely destroy his ability to make new ones; he can just make new ones as in the flowey fight where flowey SAVED and LOADED simply making one timeline where he launched one attack and he loaded it making another timeline where he is doing the attack he did (before he saved the attack he did). - your taking it as if zen'ō erases his save file then he cannot make a new one. Basically if zen'ō destroys his save, (like for example, If you played undertale and destroyed your save) you can not load back into that, BUT that does not mean you can make a new one to go back to, he can just make this new time line to go back to. Zen'ō does not have the ability to utterly erase someone timeline making and destroying powers and if anything this will be an infinite loop where Zen'ō repeatedly destroys asriel's saves and asriel makes new ones so Zen'ō cannot really get the chance to erase him to even win against asriel.

 

[Theuser789]

Oh yeah, this reminded me, Asriel should upscale from Flowey, so he should have at least six save files to load back to

 

[Kensaka]

But for Zen'ō to erase timelines, (as seen in dragon ball super the way he erased zamasu) he used 2 energy balls (https://youtu.be/zemaTlkH9Zk) and said "all of existence go away" before erasing that timeline, and it took him some time to even erase the timeline. but asriel seems to have a thought baised load and save via flowey not need a save point to go to load it back and make saves without it, so actually Zen'ō will not even have the chance to erase him nor his saves because Asriel at the very beginning of the match can save and load before Zen'ō gets the chance to erase him or his save file

 

[Kensaka]

But for Zen'ō to erase timelines, (as seen in dragon ball super the way he erased zamasu) he used 2 energy balls (https://youtu.be/zemaTlkH9Zk) and said "all of existence go away" before erasing that timeline, and it took him some time to even erase the timeline. but asriel seems to have a thought baised load and save via flowey not need a save point to go to load it back and make saves without it, so actually Zen'ō will not even have the chance to erase him nor his saves because Asriel at the very beginning of the match can save and load before Zen'ō gets the chance to erase him or his save file

But for a fact even if it is not thought, asriel saving and loading is faster because it is automatic not taking him time to do so.

 

[Kensaka]

Oh yeah, this reminded me, Asriel should upscale from Flowey, so he should have at least six save files to load back to

Asriel has 6 and it seems zen'ō only can erase one at a time when he does his erasure move so even if he does erase one, he would still survive and has other ones to go to

 

[Kensaka]

Actually I looked in a different post, Load is not really timelines it is just going back in time (because when you die, you are still existing in the same timeline where the characters remember who you and are not really existing in a new timeline because if you existed in a new timeline (like first starting the game and choosing either to be genocidal or pacifist or just to play undertale) because for example, sans can remember the times you died in his boss fight. - Basically, you died multiple times in this one timeline but was able to go back in time after death via the load because if it was a different timelime - you would be in A new timeline which is not the same as before (like no one remembering who you are because you were not existent in this new timeline).

True resets are like makings of new timelines (because if you destroy a timeline, then it should logically destroy all of existence within it, including as the memories of specific characters like Sans,Papyrus,Toriel and Flowey) which The Player, (Frisk or Chara) can make this. Hence why asriel has timelime erasure (and since the player is capable of such, asriel scales ×6 because the player has one soul doing so and asriel has 6)

 

[Kensaka]

Ok so here are the possible outcomes for the ending of this match

1. Asriel Wins - Zen'ō takes some time to erase any existence (Zen'ō because The ability to destroy anything via twin charged blue balls of energy - must raise his hand to do and THEN the effect occurs. Asriel would always load the save point before Zen'ō attempts to erase him, and if Zen'ō attempts to erase the save by erasing the timeline (which takes a bit not mind or instantly) then Asriel can load before Zen'ō' gets his energy balls or absorp his soul (which takes a shorter time then Zen'ō because Zen'ō makes a charged twin ki ball THEN its effect occurs compared to flowey ).

https://youtu.be/-nBEv9n0IG8 - Flowey Soul absorb (Watch 8:43) but this is asriel which is by faster with this ability.

https://youtu.be/zemaTlkH9Zk - Zen'ō erasing this entire timeline.

Or Incon - Asriel will not have the time to absorb Zen'ō (Applying the scenerio in which Zen'ō attempts to raise his hand soul and will always load this time) and Zen'ō never decides to erase the timeline

So whatever the scenario is likely to play out then thats the result

 

[Kensaka]

If this was full power it will for sure be Asriel's win because, Zen'ō will be constricted from movement https://youtu.be/SgiHl2kpMis - 10:19 (so he cannot raise his hand to erase) while asriel can just absorb his soul

 

[Badrimoine2019]

Isn't zeno 2-C while asriel is 2-B?

 

[Kensaka]

Yeah but they both got fair win cons, Zen'ō can simply erase Asriel And Asriel can absorb Zen'ō's soul

 

[Badrimoine2019]

I don't think zeno EE can affect Asriel since Astiel range is Multiversal while zeno range with his EE is low multiversal

 

[Kensaka]

K ranges are = so not a stomp

 

[Kensaka]

FRA are the only ways I can think of the possible outcome of this matchup

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

You can't equalise range. Reffer to Standard Battle Assumptions and Versus Thread Rules. As the former states, they start within 4km of each other.

 

[Kensaka]

Ok fixing that

 

[Kensaka]

K fixed it so that its 100m in empty earth, They are equal speed, so none should be able to run away if this is the case (unlikely) each will kill each other with their powers and their range (Zen'ō EE and Asriel Soul Absorb)

 

[Badrimoine2019]

I still don't get what's happening Asriel has far better range than Zeno so how zeno would win? Zeno EE is low multiversal while Asriel is Multiversal

 

[Kensaka]

K, your taking it as Zen'ō cannot effect asriel via range, when I basically just set the range 100m apart on empty earth, And speed = And asriel is not immune to EE- Asriel will not be fast enough to escape the range of EE of Zen'ō.

 

[Kensaka]

Ok so here are the possible outcomes for the ending of this match

1. Asriel Wins - Zen'ō takes some time to erase any existence (Zen'ō because The ability to destroy anything via twin charged blue balls of energy - must raise his hand to do and THEN the effect occurs. Asriel would always load the save point before Zen'ō attempts to erase him, and if Zen'ō attempts to erase the save by erasing the timeline (which takes a bit not mind or instantly) then Asriel can load before Zen'ō' gets his energy balls or absorp his soul (which takes a shorter time then Zen'ō because Zen'ō makes a charged twin ki ball THEN its effect occurs compared to flowey ).

https://youtu.be/-nBEv9n0IG8 - Flowey Soul absorb (Watch 8:43) but this is asriel which is by faster with this ability.

https://youtu.be/zemaTlkH9Zk - Zen'ō erasing this entire timeline.

Or Incon - Asriel will not have the time to absorb Zen'ō (Applying the scenerio in which Zen'ō attempts to raise his hand soul and will always load this time) and Zen'ō never decides to erase the timeline

This is what I mean are the possible outcomes.

 

[Badrimoine2019]

K, your taking it as Zen'ō cannot effect asriel via range, when I basically just set the range 100m apart on empty earth, And speed = And asriel is not immune to EE- Asriel will not be fast enough to escape the range of EE of Zen'ō.

well I don't know how the things work but just asking, if a character x is Outeversal but he didn't show resistance to EE on any scale does that mean he can be erased from existence even by Universal + EE ? Just asking

 

[Badrimoine2019]

Okey never mind

 

[Akreious]

Oh yeah, this reminded me, Asriel should upscale from Flowey, so he should have at least six save files to load back to

Asriel has 6 and it seems zen'ō only can erase one at a time when he does his erasure move so even if he does erase one, he would still survive and has other ones to go to

Zen'o erased the entire Dragon Ball Multiverse, which is 12 separate Space-Times. So no to the bolded. He erased 12 of them at once, not just one.

Actually I looked in a different post, Load is not really timelines it is just going back in time (because when you die, you are still existing in the same timeline where the characters remember who you and are not really existing in a new timeline because if you existed in a new timeline (like first starting the game and choosing either to be genocidal or pacifist or just to play undertale) because for example, sans can remember the times you died in his boss fight. - Basically, you died multiple times in this one timeline but was able to go back in time after death via the load because if it was a different timelime - you would be in A new timeline which is not the same as before (like no one remembering who you are because you were not existent in this new timeline).

True resets are like makings of new timelines (because if you destroy a timeline, then it should logically destroy all of existence within it, including as the memories of specific characters like Sans,Papyrus,Toriel and Flowey) which The Player, (Frisk or Chara) can make this. Hence why asriel has timelime erasure (and since the player is capable of such, asriel scales ×6 because the player has one soul doing so and asriel has 6)

Again, you CANNOT go back in time if there is no time. That is NOT a thing. If you can go back in time prior to a Timeline Erasure then it wasn't Timeline Erasure by any metric since there is still Time left.

Draw a Line (The Timeline), put yourself in the center of the Line as a dot, erase the line but not the dot. You CANNOT go backwards on the line because there isn't a line anymore. If you CAN do this then the line isn't gone, and it ISN'T Timeline Erasure.

In Dragon Ball Super, the Timeline of Future Trunks that we know is completely gone. An alternate Universe exists thanks to Multiverse Theory but it is NOT his Timeline. The way you're describing it for Undertale, which is a little confusing admittedly so I might not even be reading this correctly, doesn't logically follow any system that we use here.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Unless it resetting the timeline can include re-creating it.

 

[Theuser789]

You are forgetting the main fact that in verse Asriel destroyed his main timeline and was planning on reseting and doing it over and over again, so reseting isn't stopped by timeline erasure and Asriel himself planned to do that

 

[Kensaka]

Oh my freaking goodness, Zen'ō is not AUTOMATIC it takes some TIME for him to raise his HAND and Asriel LOAD is instant it does not take not nearly as much time zen'ō does to raise a hand, If Chara/Frisk has the power to destroy a timeline he does so to, but his is more better because he has 6 souls

 

[Kensaka]

I get it that if the timeline is erased asriel loses THAT save, however it takes a time frame for zen'ō to raise his hand and destroy the timeline where as you are stating that he Instantly destroys it by thought, but asriel LOAD power is INSTANT, Can easily load it.

 

[Kensaka]

So he will always load before the point Zen'ō raises his hand completely, so Zen'ō will not get the chance to evem erase Asriel save.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

But will he have enough time to mount a counterattack?

 

[Kensaka]

But you didnt even read about True Resets - It completely makes new timelines and erases the old one. Chara and Frisk have this power to make new timelines, where everything in the past timeline is erased. Asriel has absorbed 6 humans souls, along with the monster souls so he has this power.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

I know about them. They would just restart the battle, and it's still 50/50 on who wins. Also, doesn't that take a bit longer than his usual resets.

 

[Kensaka]

But will he have enough time to mount a counterattack?

Why it can be incon but why it also can be asriel's win - we are using Zen'ō and Asriel Dreemur - a fraction of his power - Now listen CAREFULLY - Zen'ō has erased things however he uses a CHARGED ENERGY BALL (Well 2 to be exact) and Since we are using one not 2 Zen'ō's meaning that it is him alone (In DBS in the tournament of Power - There was 2 Zen'ō's that BOTH raised one hand to erase while we are using one - he would have to raise both hands to do so (as in the future trunks arc) and when he Erased IT IS NOT INSTANT BECAUSE THERE IS A LITTLE EFFECT THAT GOES ON THEN THE PERSON/THING IS ERASED - https://youtu.be/hUtZfDoqYkI, https://youtu.be/zemaTlkH9Zk - Not one but 2 pieces of evidence that it require 2 charged energy balls and a little effect for him to erase someone or thing. Asriel has Soul Absorption - Which his power scales from flowey and this would obviously be a whole lot faster and his range is Multiversal (Meaning he can absorb Soul even if Zen'o attempt to run away) As seen in the flowey boss fight - Omega Flowey saved as he was doing an attack and loaded to that attack, - Asriel scales a faster power (including he not only has the 6 human souls but the monster sousl aswell) - Asriel can instantly save and load before Zen'ō raises his hands fully and 2 charged key balls then the little effect of the character glowing then them being erased, meaning that Asriel has a time limit to absorb Zen'ō's soul before he is erased

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Please don't insinuate that I'm not paying attention. Does he explicitly need to? Soul absorption is at least a second thought, which is enough time for Zeno to do something.

 

[Kensaka]

What would be faster Zen'ō getting 2 energy balls with his hands up, then a whole effect to occur than erase someone, Or Asriel who can easily start up a soul absorption.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Give me a video of Asriel Dreemurr absorbing souls.

 

[Theuser789]

I know about them. They would just restart the battle, and it's still 50/50 on who wins. Also, doesn't that take a bit longer than his usual resets.

True Reset takes the exact same time as a normal reset in the game