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Gurren Lagann God Tier revision

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GreatIskandar14045

GreatIskandar14045

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Not a downgrade, and possibly an upgrade. After all of my research (you can see my blog here), I found out that the justifications of the profiles are kinda... messy and innacurate.

Why the profiles are not that accurate​

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
TTGL possesses an entire Super Spiral universe within itself; which is a 10 +1 dimensional brane universes

While it is true that TTGL does have a Super Spiral Universe within itself, the universe has never been explicited as 11D, so it's not a solid justification for the High 1-C rating. And no, Super Spiral Universe is not the Anti-Spiral's pocket universe, it is just TTGL's compressed universe embodied by thoughts which created by combining all possible Gurren Laganns in the multiverse (here).

Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
... STTGL is noted to contain several (Super Spiral Universe) within it

This claim literally came from nowhere, there are no sources to suggest that STTGL has several Super Spiral Universes inside it, and as I said, "Super Spiral Universe" is not a solid justification for the High 1-C rating.

Gurren Lagann
Is an integration of the Infinite Multiverse Labyrinth after the super spiral self of Simon absorbed it. The Infinite Multiverse Labyrinth being an Anti-Spiral multiverse in which conscious beings are trapped within the infinite series of alternate dimensions, created every instant as they are perceived from their past experiences and preferences

Simon's integration with the multiverse is correct, however, the multiverse was never created by the Anti-Spiral since they are simply manipulating the already-existing multiverse, then forces the victims consciousnesses to perceive possibilities (here). The birth of the universes are not created based on victims past experiences and preferences anyway, but via their observations and perceptions of possibility (similarly to quantum mechanics, you can check it here).

Are they really that powerful?​

In fact, they are indeed that powerful, or even more powerful. But firstly, we have to understand how the cosmology works.

So the verse has a multiverse, containing an infinite number of universes, with each of them branches again into respective possible universes instantaneously as long as perception is made, which makes the multiverse at least 2-A I guess.

But we are not done yet, the multiverse is multi-layered as per the databooks, and the universes of the multiverse are coexisting in gravitational equilibrium as 10 to 11-dimensional universes confined in membranes (branes), which makes the multiverse is High 1-C, corresponding to brane multiverse, Nakashima (the writter of TTGL) also believed that the "multiverse" for him is 11D but, eh.

Why they are High 1-C (with possibly 1-B upgrade if accepted)​

So in short, I just wanna address they are way higher than multiple universes High 1-C, in fact is equal to infinite universes level or even higher since they are capable goes beyond the time and space of the multiverse.

Possibly speed upgrade? ​

  • The Anti-Spiral is completely unbound by time and gravity, and able to separate themselves from the rest of spacetime continuum.
  • Simon crosses universes with mere speed, as Gurren Lagann (I'm aware this Wiki standards have such feat as unquantifiable, but I do think it's worth to note).
  • They transcend time and space (if 1-B is accepted).

Hax upgrade​

  1. Acausality Type 1 and 2 for the Anti-Spiral, are unbound by time; freed themselves from the multiverse completely which by all means they have no parallel variations generated by the quantum cosmology (no past and future), which created the multiverse.
  2. Time Manipulation for the Anti-Spiral, has the complete control over the flow of time of their pocket universe.
  3. Invisibility for the Anti-Spiral, the databooks said it, they can't be seen by humans.
  4. Acausality Type 2 (possibly Type 1 too) for Simon, TTGL, and STTGL (including GL, AGL, SGGL in the EOS battle), simply because they have united with their every doppelgangers in the multiverse including past and future.
  5. Non-Corporeal, Abstract Existence Type 1 for the Anti-Spiral, Simon, Dai-Gurren Dan pilots, TTGL, and STTGL, it should be obvious since all of them are just materialized thoughts, feelings, and emotions (databooks stated as well that TTGL don't exactly exist in physical world and is impossible to calculate in size).
  6. Non-physical Interraction for the Anti-Spiral, Simon, Dai-Gurren Dan pilots, TTGL, and STTGL, can interact with thoughts, feelings, emotions and can physically harm and pilot abstract beings/mechs like the Anti-Spiral and TTGL respectively.
  7. Low-Godly Regeneration for the Anti-Spiral, Simon, Dai-Gurren Dan pilots, TTGL, and STTGL, completely lack of physical forms and can regenerate with just thoughts, in example, Lordgenome who able to reform his body from the thought of the Super Spiral Universe and turning himself into a drill after a quantic level destruction.
And in addition, SGGL's omnipresential attack (Mega Maelstrom Vortex Cannon) should scale to STTGL too. No, "the movie never demonstrated it" is a fallacy, same logic can be said that STTGL is only 2-A since the existence of the 11 dimensions was never mentioned in the movies, let alone the brane mechanics. Regardless in what adaptions, SGGL does have said attack since it is the part of it, explained by the databooks.
 
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Emirp sumitpo said:
That does not make them 1-B at all, that's still just High 1-C
Click to expand...
While I am not really into 1-B, putting them at "At least High 1-C, possibly higher" is more valid than just "High 1-C" in my opinion. Since I believe it was discussed beforehand somewhere, that TTGL might have possible to get 1-B rating as per this via the same reason as per Aeyu (and this CRT provides more evidences). And, this revision thread, has the concensus of "At least 2-A, possibly higher" with again, same reason, through transcending time and space of the multiverse.
Emirp sumitpo said:
Also if you add tags to this, it'd be easier for people to find this
Click to expand...
Bet.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
That kinda depends on the context of said verse, it's not applicable to every verse in general.
Click to expand...
Correct, means TTGL should be treat the same way since the context behind for the "transcend time and space" is more reliable. Super Robot Wars had such rating via non-canon Anti-Spiral anyway, if you check the thread.
Emirp sumitpo said:
?
Click to expand...
That simply means I have added the tags.
 
GreatIskandar14045 said:
Correct, means TTGL should be treat the same way since the context behind for the "transcend time and space" is more reliable. Super Robot Wars had such rating via non-canon Anti-Spiral anyway, if you check the thread.
Click to expand...
I know nothing SRW or how it works so eh. But transcending space and time of an 11 dimensional universes is not enough to get you to 1-B. 1-B is 12 dimensions or higher
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I know nothing SRW or how it works so eh. But transcending space and time of an 11 dimensional universes is not enough to get you to 1-B. 1-B is 12 dimensions or higher
Click to expand...
I am aware about the tiering system, and I am aware that it is still not enough to our standards in order to upgrade them in higher dimensional gap, however, putting it at just High 1-C instead of at least High 1-C is kinda... a downplay imo.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Why so?
Click to expand...
I have gave you one example that the SRW thread above, which has the justification of at least 2-A rating with the "transcending time and space" context being just as solid as this if not weaker, and the fact that SRW got it from non-canon TTGL description which taken from the Final Drill databooks, so why shouldn't we treat TTGL the same?
 
Because TTGL's cosmology is different and as far as I know, SRW has nothing to do with higher dimensions afaik. And even then, that's still not good enough justification for any rating higher than High 1-C.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Because TTGL's cosmology is different and as far as I know, SRW has nothing to do with higher dimensions afaik. And even then, that's still not good enough justification for any rating higher than High 1-C.
Click to expand...
But both are just about transcending the multiverse, and Gurren Lagann literally has the same cosmology in addition to brane multiverse (which is the reason why they are qualifed as High 1-C).
 
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Also, I just remembered, but I think there was another CRT for Gurren Lagann awhile back but I think it's dead now.
 
GreatIskandar14045 said:
But both are just about transcending the multiverse, and Gurren Lagann literally has the same cosmology in addition to brane multiverse (which is the reason why they are qualifed as High 1-C).
Click to expand...
They still need to be 12-D in order to be 1-B afaik, transcending 11-D doesn't get you there.
 
I just wanted to say that, this is not only about High 1-C to 1-B stuffs, even if we are sticked into High 1-C, it'd still boost them from High 1-C (multiple universes) to High 1-C (immeasurably above baseline). I also wanted to know if my proposal regarding the cosmology, which I tried to prove that it has the idea of brane multiverse consisting an infinite numbers of 10 to 11-dimensional universes, with each of them being generated by quantum cosmology instant to instant and restricted to branes is accepted, this is important since the god tiers are standing qualitatively beyond it, and the haxes too.
 
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GreatIskandar14045 said:

Possibly speed upgrade? ​

  • The Anti-Spiral is completely unbound by time and gravity, and able to separate themselves from the rest of spacetime continuum.
  • Simon crosses universes with mere speed, as Gurren Lagann (I'm aware this Wiki standards have such feat as unquantifiable, but I do think it's worth to note).
  • They transcend time and space (if 1-B is accepted).
Click to expand...
None of that is evidence for Infinite or Immeasurable anymore.
 
Nope. Otherwise, every character who transcends time and space will get Immeasurable.

That ain't how it works anymore, no character is granted this rating only due to transcending time and space.
 
Honestly, I'd like to hear reasons instead of just "no", transcending time and space in dimensional gap logically should warrants you "Immeasurable" speed since the first time dimension (that you have transcended) is not relevant at this point anymore, to be precise, being beyond the linear time aka the past and future, more or less DontTalkDT said the same. To have a movement being unbound by time is arguable Immeasurable speed too, so it's not far too fetched.
 
I'm pretty sure the current requirement for immeasurable speed is being able to move through time without using hax of any sorts, like just moving through time through sheer force. Or being able to attack an opponent before you've even started the attack. And they need to do this without using hax
 
Yeah, I recall we agreed on Immeasurable speed not quite being legit based on a "Transcending time" statement. But Ultima and Aeyu were the ones best informed on the AP stuff.
 
Because, iirc, bunch of characters would have immeasurable speed despite most of them having no speed feats coming even close to it.

I get why you think they should have immeasurable speed, since that is logical. However, if we go that "Logical" route, then every character that is above the speed of light should also be High 3-A.

A simple statement of transcending time and space would not grant you Immeasurable speed unless you have feats coming close to it.
 
IIRC, gaining immeasurable speed through transcending time needs to have more context to it, am I right?
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I'm pretty sure the current requirement for immeasurable speed is being able to move through time without using hax of any sorts, like just moving through time through sheer force. Or being able to attack an opponent before you've even started the attack. And they need to do this without using hax
Click to expand...
Why would you assume hax or abilities are needed for them to gain such speed?
Rikimarox2 said:
I get why you think they should have immeasurable speed, since that is logical. However, if we go that "Logical" route, then every character that is above the speed of light should also be High 3-A.
Click to expand...
That's a false equivalence as fictions rarely follows Einstein's theory of relativity, if they does then so be it, that's like saying TTGL is not High 1-C because they just randomly put "branes" and "dimensional numbers" with no shown of superiority regarding lower and higher dimensions, not counting the author's intention of course. Here, in the context, the Anti-Spiral being above the time-space which makes, they completely unbound by time and gravity is different things to say.
Qawsedf234 said:
Not without an actual showing demonstrating this. It's why they kept the rating for a singular attack and nothing else.
Click to expand...
What... singular attack? They transcends the multiverse with no attack so I don't get your points tbh, Mega Maelstrom Vortex Cannon is not the case now.
 
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