GT Goku vs. DBS Goku (F&G).

[Omegas03]

Since this is most likely an stomp, I'll put it on F&G board but can be changed to the VST board if it actually turns out to be fair.

• Son Goku from Dragon Ball GT with his Surpassed Limits Super Saiyan 4 Form against Son Goku from Dragon Ball Super. 3-B vs. borderline 2-C. Speed is obviously unequalized.

• Could GT Goku eventually outlast and defeat DBS Goku with his speed advantage?

 

[Planck69]

How fast is GTku exactly?

 

[Omegas03]

SSJ4 Goku is faaaaaaaar (add like 100 a's more) faster than Base Cell Saga Goku who is 4 quadrillion x FTL.

MUI Goku scales to Whis' casual speed feat which is 100 quadrillion IIRC.

 

[Planck69]

SSJ4 Goku is faaaaaaaar (add like 100 a's more) faster than Base Cell Saga Goku who is 4 quadrillion x FTL.
MUI Goku scales to Whis' casual speed feat which is 100 quadrillion IIRC.

BoG Goku scales to 3/4 of Whis' casual speed feat which is actually 500 quadrillio times FTL. So around 374 Quadrillion FTL at the beginning of the anime. So MUI is the one who's blitzing here unless you have an actual canon statement or feat that puts GTku beyond 4 quadrillion.

 

[Omegas03]

Statements or feats? Nope.

But I do have a scaling chain ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°

SL SSJ4 Goku >>> Syn Shenron >>> Initial SSJ4 Goku SD arc >>> SSJ4 Goku Baby arc >>>> Super 17 Arc SSJ Goku >>> SBV2 >>>> SBV1 >>> SSJ Vegito > Base Baby Vegeta >>> SSJ3 Goku (Baby arc) >>> SSJ2 >>> SSJ >>> Base >> Buuhan >>> Buutenks >>> Super Buu >>> SSJ Gotenks post rosat >>> Base Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku Buu arc >>> SSJ2 >>> SSJ >>> Base >>> CG Base Goku = 4 quadrillion.

Yeah, Goku ain't standing there at 4 quad when he has like one series worth of an blitzing advantage over the 4 quadrillion feat. it's still hard to argue who's faster imo.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Unless you're arguing MUI Goku is faster than Whis' 498 Quadrillion, which is stated by Whis himself to he the fastest he's ever moved.....ever......Base Cell Saga Goku is give or take 100x slower, and then factor in the difference between Base Cell Saga Goku and SSJ4 GT Goku, GT Goku blitzes and outlasts MUI's less than 1 minute time limit

And here's the accepted feats/calcs

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Elizhaa/Goku_and_Pikkon_Cross_the_Afterlife_(Redone)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AKM_sama/Dragon_Ball_Super:_Whis'_Speed_Feat

^ This was Whis going at his fastest speed he's ever gone before

 

[Omegas03]

Wait a second...

if GT can blitz the heck out of DBS could Eis Shenron pull out a win against GP or Zen'o by Freezing them? LMAO

 

[Planck69]

I'm saying that Goku somewhat scales to Beerus, who's 374 quadrillion FTL as per his profile. And no, we don't scale multipliers to speed here unlesss stated at all,especially in the case of Dragon Ball. So that scaling chain at best proves that GTku is a lot faster than the calced feat not that he's arbitrarily hundreds of times faster without proof.

MUI still blitzes rgardless.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

I'm saying that Goku somewhat scales to Beerus, who's 374 quadrillion FTL as per his profile. And no, we don't scale multipliers to speed here unlesss stated at all,especially in the case of Dragon Ball. So that scaling chain at best proves that GTku is a lot faster than the calced feat not that he's arbitrarily hundreds of times faster without proof.

MUI still blitzes rgardless.

Why would SSG Goku scale to Beerus' full speed when Beerus was suppressed immensely in that fight? At best, UIO3 or MUI Goku would scale around Beerus or at best scale between Beerus and Whis at maximum. Goku's profile says he scales to casual Beerus speed, and Beerus' page lists 3/4th Whis as his full speed

Dragon Ball literally scales multipliers to speed. Kaioken ia the most explicit statement, and this Goku can use Kaioken x 100. And Goku in Toei was in base during the Cell saga with the feat. Then he had his 7 years of training in the Buu saga, transformations up to SSJ3, 10 more years of training to the end of Z, 5 more to start GT. Then more battles and fights, Base GT Goku being stronger than Rildo who's stronger than Buuhan, then in the Baby Saga, Base GT Goku stomped SSJ1 Goten and SSJ1 Gohan, with GT Gohan being stated to have never stopped training in the 15 years between Z and GT, then Goku has his transformations, and then SSJ4, and then in the Super 17 Saga he got many times stronger due to his SSJ1 being > Majuub when previously Majuub > his SSJ3, then more fighting, then he broke his limits in SSJ4

That's not including the entire scaling chain either. GT Goku blitzes him badly to the point where it looks like MUI Goku is not even moving since even if we highball MUI Goku to = Whis, he's only at 500 Quad

Base Cell Saga Goku using KKx100 would be slightly under but comparable to him in speed, and this is an immensely superior version of that same Goku using an immensely superior power up

 

[Omegas03]

Bump lol

 

[AwkguyDB]

yeah bro you do realize that if

SSG BoG Goku can scale to 100 quadrillion x FTL

WARNING MASSIVE SCALING CHAIN INCOMING

MUI Goku >= LB Jiren > Base Jiren > UIS3 Goku > Post UIS 2 SSJBKKx20 Goku = SSJBE Vegeta > GoD Toppo > UIS2 Goku >= Post UIS2 SSJB Goku > UIS Goku > Infinite Zamasu > Merged Zamasu = SSJB Vegito >>>>>>> Base Vegito > SSJB Vegeta and SSJB Goku >= SSJR Goku Black (Trip 3) >= Hit (rematch) > SSJBKKx10 Goku Champa Saga > SSJB Goku Champa Saga > SSJB Goku RoF > Base Goku RoF >= SSJG BoG = 100 Quadrillion x speed of light.

and I am lowballing the mess out of everyone.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Goku should legit blitz by the black arc if not the champa arc.

 

[Planck69]

UIO3 should hilariously blitz Post-UIO2 SSBKKx20 Goku, who should be superior to UIO1 Goku who insanely blitzes Beginning of ToP SSBKKx20, Goku just a heads up.

 

[Dragomer]

Also, Whis's speed feat we use for calcs is different from the speed feat where Whis say he never moved that fast before.

 

[Omegas03]

I thought UI Goku speed capped at the hundreds quadrillions by scaling to Beerus lol

 

[Dragomer]

I thought UI Goku speed capped at the hundreds quadrillions by scaling to Beerus lol

Even SSJG Goku scaled to Beerus's extremly casual speed feat as far as i remember.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

And let's not forget that MUI Goku is llikely above Beerus so he should scale to his full speed regardless.

I think this is a stomp FRA lol.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Yeah also forget speed when Goku has the range advantage all he has to do is power up and blow Gt goku away.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

yeah bro you do realize that if
SSG BoG Goku can scale to 100 quadrillion x FTL

WARNING MASSIVE SCALING CHAIN INCOMING

MUI Goku >= LB Jiren > Base Jiren > UIS3 Goku > Post UIS 2 SSJBKKx20 Goku = SSJBE Vegeta > GoD Toppo > UIS2 Goku >= Post UIS2 SSJB Goku > UIS Goku > Infinite Zamasu > Merged Zamasu = SSJB Vegito >>>>>>> Base Vegito > SSJB Vegeta and SSJB Goku >= SSJR Goku Black (Trip 3) >= Hit (rematch) > SSJBKKx10 Goku Champa Saga > SSJB Goku Champa Saga > SSJB Goku RoF > Base Goku RoF >= SSJG BoG = 100 Quadrillion x speed of light.

and I am lowballing the mess out of everyone.

Where do you ge the notion that SSG BOG = 100 QD x light when he scales to a suppressed/casual Beerus

Beerus' full speed is 3/4th Whis. Whis is 498 QD at his top speed as stated on the profile, so Beerus is 373.5 QD at his top speed. We've never seen Beerus at his top speed, but we can say that he should be in the same ballpark as MUI Goku and Jiren

You can't use a scaling chain to scale MUI Goku above Whis' 498 QD when 1.) Whis' 498 QD is what Beerus scales from at his full speed and 2.) Whis is undoutebly faster than MUI Goku

SSG BOG Goku scales immensely less than 100QD unless you say that between BOG and the TOP he only got around 3.75x faster.


Whis (498 Quadrillion x speed of light at the fastest speed he's ever moved before) > MUI Goku >= LB Jiren > Beerus (373.5 Quadrillion x speed of light) >=< Base Jiren > UIS3 Goku > Post UIS 2 SSJBKKx20 Goku = SSJBE Vegeta > GoD Toppo > UIS2 Goku >= Post UIS2 SSJB Goku > UIS Goku > Infinite Zamasu > Merged Zamasu = SSJB Vegito >>>>>>> Base Vegito > SSJB Vegeta and SSJB Goku >= SSJR Goku Black (Trip 3) >= Hit (rematch) > SSJBKKx10 Goku Champa Saga > SSJB Goku Champa Saga > SSJB Goku RoF > Base Goku RoF >= SSJG BoG = Casual/Heavily Suppressed Beerus

Remeber they're backscaling from Whis' feat in the first place

 

[Dragomer]

The speed calc feat from Whis isn't from the fastest he's ever moved since we don't have a clear time frame for that one IIRC.

And everyone got their MFTL ratings from Beerus's casual feat and Whis's casual feat.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

And let's not forget that MUI Goku is llikely above Beerus so he should scale to his full speed regardless.

I think this is a stomp FRA lol.

MUI Goku is superior to Beerus anyway, so arguing about SSG is pointless.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Whis stated that himself in the episode according to the person that made the calc, and the timeframe was accepted as 10 seconds based on the length of time passing in real time as well as evidence from the episode matching up with it

 

[The_Calaca]

Not again...

 

[TheMerchant66]

GT Goku. Far faster thanks tonl scaling and could just spam 3-A attacks until it wears down UI Goku.

 

[Planck69]

GT Goku. Far faster thanks tonl scaling and could just spam 3-A attacks until it wears down UI Goku.

DBS Goku has a stupidly huge scaling chain as well, from a feat 25 times faster than GT Goku so I'm not sure where you get off saying that the latter's faster. Also, 3-A attacks are literally less than nothing to a baseline High 3-A, much less a half 2-C so no, he isn't wearing him down. What's more, GTku is only 3-A with Dragon Fist anyway, so he's not just spamming 3-A attacks, not that it makes a difference.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Ki Sense frequently scales above physical speed (i.e they can sense movements of opponents way faster).

If Base Dyspo = SSG Goku, that means Goku could react to, and counter, someone hundreds or even thousands of times faster than himself. And UI gives Goku instant reactions, pretty much.

There is also the part where SS4 Goku has 'unknown' range (likely sub-universal?) whereas UI Goku has Universal+ range.

Oh, and SSG Goku's shockwaves could traverse the entire universe, breach the limits of the universe and reach the World of Kais within, like, seconds and vaporise entire worlds as the casual side-effects of his punches clashing with Beerus.

I'm about 99% sure that UI Goku is going to out-range, out-react and predict GT Goku then defeat him with an AoE.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

MUI Goku got tagged by someone on the same speed as or slower than him multiple times (Jiren). Again, if you wank MUI Goku to say he's as fast as the angels, he caps out a 498QD. You can't use a scaling chain to put Goku above that because the entire scaling chain os backscaling off of Whis. That's where Beerus gets his speed rating from, and backscaling way further down, that's where SSG Goku scales back from

MUI Goku can't predict or react to something/someone he literally won't be able to perceive. He would appear frozen in time from GT Goku's perspective. As for range, its not in character for DB characters to use attacks that have a range of more than a few meters in actual fights. The most Goku has used in combat is when his beams travel off into space though even that isn't common for him. But even if he does use his range he's too slow compared to GT Goku and GT Goku can just dodge or use IT to move as it's not like MUI Goku's attacks literally fill up 4-D space entirely. MUI runs out extremely quickly too

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

First of all, MUI Goku scales above Beerus anyway so he's at 370QD+

Secondly, even if MUI runs out, even Base Goku is much stronger than GTku let alone his SSJ-SSB forms which put him at Universal+. He can't hurt him regardless.

 

[Planck69]

Goku is tens of thousands of times stronger even in Base. GTku's speed is irrelevant since Goku will eventuallly just nuke his surroundings anyway once he realizes that he can't hit his opponent and he has all of the time in the world since his opponent can't hurt him at all. And GTku can't even teleport out orf the universe so MUI nuking everything would actually wreck him since he has no where to go.

 

[The_Calaca]

>People says GTku

Nice.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@Calaca

Told you I'd steal and spread it

 

[AwkguyDB]

yeah bro you do realize that if
SSG BoG Goku can scale to 100 quadrillion x FTL

WARNING MASSIVE SCALING CHAIN INCOMING

MUI Goku >= LB Jiren > Base Jiren > UIS3 Goku > Post UIS 2 SSJBKKx20 Goku = SSJBE Vegeta > GoD Toppo > UIS2 Goku >= Post UIS2 SSJB Goku > UIS Goku > Infinite Zamasu > Merged Zamasu = SSJB Vegito >>>>>>> Base Vegito > SSJB Vegeta and SSJB Goku >= SSJR Goku Black (Trip 3) >= Hit (rematch) > SSJBKKx10 Goku Champa Saga > SSJB Goku Champa Saga > SSJB Goku RoF > Base Goku RoF >= SSJG BoG = 100 Quadrillion x speed of light.

and I am lowballing the mess out of everyone.

Where do you ge the notion that SSG BOG = 100 QD x light when he scales to a suppressed/casual Beerus
Beerus' full speed is 3/4th Whis. Whis is 498 QD at his top speed as stated on the profile, so Beerus is 373.5 QD at his top speed. We've never seen Beerus at his top speed, but we can say that he should be in the same ballpark as MUI Goku and Jiren

You can't use a scaling chain to scale MUI Goku above Whis' 498 QD when 1.) Whis' 498 QD is what Beerus scales from at his full speed and 2.) Whis is undoutebly faster than MUI Goku

SSG BOG Goku scales immensely less than 100QD unless you say that between BOG and the TOP he only got around 3.75x faster.


Whis (498 Quadrillion x speed of light at the fastest speed he's ever moved before) > MUI Goku >= LB Jiren > Beerus (373.5 Quadrillion x speed of light) >=< Base Jiren > UIS3 Goku > Post UIS 2 SSJBKKx20 Goku = SSJBE Vegeta > GoD Toppo > UIS2 Goku >= Post UIS2 SSJB Goku > UIS Goku > Infinite Zamasu > Merged Zamasu = SSJB Vegito >>>>>>> Base Vegito > SSJB Vegeta and SSJB Goku >= SSJR Goku Black (Trip 3) >= Hit (rematch) > SSJBKKx10 Goku Champa Saga > SSJB Goku Champa Saga > SSJB Goku RoF > Base Goku RoF >= SSJG BoG = Casual/Heavily Suppressed Beerus

Remeber they're backscaling from Whis' feat in the first place

You do realize that we scale SSJG BOG Goku to Suppress Beerus' feagt which is 3/4th of Whis' feat.

 

[Planck69]

Also, since when do we take Whis never going that fast as it being the upper limit of his speed when all it could (and most likely does) mean is that it was the first time Whis went so fast? There's literally no reason to assume that at all yet people parrot it here ad nauseum.

 

[Dragomer]

Especialy since Whis showed no strain at all, if i suddenly ran faster than i ever did (to the point i turn a 20 minute trip into an almost instant thing), i would be tired as **** if said speed was my max.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

The profile literally says Whis' speed is 498QD and Beerus speed is 3/4ths of that. It doesnt say Whis' casual speed is at what it is or Beerus casual speed is what his speed is rated it, thats their full speed. SSG scales to casual Beerus yes, which is imnensely slower than his full speed which is 3/4th Whis' full speed

Whis has fought and sparred Vados before in the past, as well as trained Beerus for who knows how many millions of years prior to him performing his fastest speed feat. And how tired you are depends on how long you're going for. A 10 second sprint is different from a 10 minute sprint. Whis' timeframe was 10 seconds and even irl you can go at your full speed for 10 seconds and be fine. Its not about the distance that determines how tired you are, as the distance changes depending on how fast your speed is. If you run at 5mph and thats your max and someone runs at 500mph at their max and they have the same stamina, one would have went 5 miles and the other 500 in the same timeframe but feel the same. In this case what matters is the length of time of travel for stamina and for Whis it was a short timeframe

 

[Dragomer]

It say that about Whis's speed in an entirely different feat from the Dr Slump one once again (just look at the distance it's calculating, it's not even related to the earth speed feat)

Moving that fast for travel speed =/= having a superior combat speed, you're trying to use a standard that doesn't exist.

No, what matter for Stamina is the ammount of effort and energy you put into and Whis clearly put in no effort and wasn't even slightly winded.

 

[The_Calaca]

If Whis can react while going at such speeds, it does scale. Otherwise he'd be going so fast he can't know where he has to stop or if he has to dodge something.

 

[Planck69]

What are you even going on about? It doesn't say that it's casual because there's no need to. You can't really get to a higher speed tier from this by upscaling so it just being labelled as it is doesn't contradict anything.

What does stamina have to do with this? Whis just states it's the fastest he's ever gone, nothing even remotely implies that he would have tired or strained himself if he maintained it for a longer time. That's pure headcanon.

And what point are you even trying to prove with Whis sparring with Vados and Beerus? The latter is weaker than him and the former is somewhat stronger. All it proves is that either both of them are far slower (which definitely isn't the case with Vados) or that this was Whis' fastest travel speed but his combat speeds would actually be higher since he's clearly going to put more effort into fighting a fellow Angel than just traversing the universe. So end of the day, your argument implies that Whis could fight at far higher speeds than this.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Also why is this speed debate even relevant when GTku can't even scratch BASE goku lol?? Like seriously?

 

[AwkguyDB]

Also why is this speed debate even relevant when GTku can't even scratch BASE goku lol?? Like seriously?

LOL