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This is a fight that will likely be in Juggernaut's favor. Neither character's resistances will be any help here, and Juggernaut's weakness to electrocution should also be a non-factor. I don't really get the impression that either combatant has a notable skill advantage, and speed is equalized, so this should come down to which character has the superior AP. Colossus, who has the 9.63 ton feat, was considerably outclassed by Juggernaut and was only able to hold his own by fighting dirty to catch Juggernaut off guard. Even then, Juggernaut had the upper hand and likely would have won if not for outside interference. Rhino scales to a weaker feat and doesn't seem likely to use tactics that could catch Juggernaut off guard, so he should be at a bigger disadvantage than Colossus. Rhino's one advantage is his vastly superior Lifting strength (At least Class M vs. Juggernaut's At least Class 10), but that seems too situational to be of much help. My vote goes to Juggernaut.
 
IIRC Juggernaut has better skill in comparison to Rhino, who just has vatiations of ru so yeah, voting for Juggernaut
 
LS is hardly situational in a battle with characters that are all about using their superior strength as opposed to skill.

Rhino will charge in, Juggernaut will try to stop him and get bulldozed every time.

EDIT: Although, Juggernaut will probably win regardless as this is a basically a giant punch fest.
 
No, LS is relevant in situations where the character's movement rely on grappling and other LS relevant moves, charging is Striking Strength, i.e. Attack Potency.
 
Zark2099 said:
No, LS is relevant in situations where the character's movement rely on grappling and other LS relevant moves, charging is Striking Strength, i.e. Attack Potency.
If Juggernaut attempted to halt Rhino in his charge he will grab him but get pushed over in the process, it changes from a striking strength issue into an LS issue the moment their interaction lasts longer than a second.

Think about football blockers, they need to brace themselves with their strength in order to prevent others from pushing through, Juggernaut will be doing this but is sufficiently weaker, which will result in him being bulldozed.
 
Zark2099 said:
I mean Juggernaut can literally punch him off, so, no.
A Class 10 halting a Class M with one hand long enough to perform a punch is unlikely.
 
Zark2099 said:
A guy with superior AP punching off a leech so it lets go isn't.
An AP advantage of 1.2x is hardly one to be boasting over when you are throttled for being 200x weaker.
 
Extremely relevant due to the nature in which they fight, being charging, grabbing and punching, yes.
 
Damage caused by charging and punching is striking strength and Rhino doesn't grapple once. Also Rhino himself has a weight of 323 kgs, so yes, Juggernaut can still toss him off tangentially to the force applied by Rhino due to fiction's tendency to think that as relevant.

You do know why we differentiate between Striking and Lifting strength, no? Fiction treats a character's lifting strength as different to their typical showcase
 
@Zark2099 I agree with you on most of your points but I don't get your "fiction's tendency to think that as relevant", this isn't fiction, this is a versus thread where we debate things based on logical situations. You might as well as argue for "plot armour" in a versus thread.
 
A grapple here, another here, and here.

Which is immediately counteracted by Rhino anchoring himself to the ground and pushing, resulting in the obvious. Have you never watched people wrestle, or people play football?
 
  • gasp* 3 tackles completely take away a 30 year old character's relevant fighting style. 2nd one is just a charge and the 3rd one has no combat relevance, so 1 grapple.
And yes, totally how it works, 120% how it is relevant within the verse that Rhino can just do that. This is why we don't interlap Lifting Strength with Attack Potency, they're treated as separate contexts with LS only being relevant in certain situations like grappling or crushing.

"This isn't fiction, this is a versus thread" wanna talk about how we know that Juggernaut's Attack Potency would give him the Class M regardless because Spider-Man received a lower High 8-C rating because of causing a Lifting Strength feat? It doesn't work like that and Lifting Strength isn't relevant to battles unless their entire fighting style revolves around grappling, and even then stuff like crushing and pinning can very well be counteracted by Durability which comes in effect in these scenarios, striking strength can break through these pins by overwhelming with hits.

Look mate if you act like that, half the matches across the wiki are stomps, we don't treat it as such.
 
>Juggernaut's Attack Potency would give him the Class M

Huh?

I agree with you on most parts but I don't get this argument.
 
Matching a character to their attack potency, we get their ideal Lifting Strength to be Class M, as is the case with Spider-Man (Marvel Comics), of course this isn't the case as fiction treats Lifting Strength as an idea independent to the damage output of the character, hence we separated it.
 
I know, but I'm not sure which feat would get Juggernaut Class M when his feat is harming someone who tanked a High 8-C explosion...

Plus we don't use PE for lifting feats.
 
gasp* 3 tackles completely take away a 30 year old character's relevant fighting style. 2nd one is just a charge and the 3rd one has no combat relevance, so 1 grapple.

Second and third one are pinning against something, so yes, they do have relevance.

Or maybe, gasp, it's a part of his fighting style. I gave you the examples, therefore it isn't OOC.

And yes, totally how it works, 120% how it is relevant within the verse that Rhino can just do that. This is why we don't interlap Lifting Strength with Attack Potency, they're treated as separate contexts with LS only being relevant in certain situations like grappling or crushing.

Which they are doing, I have not once mixed the two, that's something that you are doing.

What you are trying to argue is that Rhino will never push someone he charges into and only stop at initial contact and not a moment more, even when the opponent would be trying to halt them in their path, this is a weak argument.
 
Pinning against something both can break past, big whoop. You said grappling, not pinning. Also again, 3 instances against 30 years, want me to bring up scans where he doesn't do that?

It is something you're doing because you're implying that Rhino can just straight up crush Juggernaut or just push him endlessly with no resistance. Did you forget your own argument, or just word it poorly?
 
Zark2099 said:
Pinning against something both can break past, big whoop. You said grappling, not pinning.

It is something you're doing because you're implying that Rhino can just straight up crush Juggernaut or just push him endlessly with no resistance. Did you forget your own argument, or just word it poorly?
Notice these words here.

You can be pinning someone and simply hold them there, which will be using your LS. Also, the last one is pinning to the ground, so unless Juggernaut thinks to burrow he wouldn't be escaping that way.

My whole argument was always that if Rhino was going to perform a charge Juggernaut would not be able to stop it that he can't actually halt him in his path because he would be pushed aside, that that "superior AP" would lead to him being decimated. So no, not once did I mix the two.
 
Explain to me this, if you were tackling me, and I stabbed you with a knife on the back while you were doing so, would you not pull away?

That's basically the extreme example of what's happening here. Juggernaut can tangentially counter off the force applied
 
Zark2099 said:
Explain to me this, if you were tackling me, and I stabbed you with a knife on the back while you were doing so, would you not pull away?

That's basically the extreme example of what's happening here. Juggernaut can tangentially counter off the force applied
I mean, yes, but in this scenario that doesn't exactly work, the person with the closest thing to a sharp object is Rhino and his horn, Juggernaut only has blunt force to offer whereas Rhino doesn't.

He will likely counter in reaction to Rhino's charge by using his hands to halt him in his path similar to how he intercepted Colossus's punches, this obviously won't work and he will get pushed over.

Attempts to grab Rhino will be reciprocated and easily countered, the only advantage Juggernaut has is a small one in brute force strength, which Rhino makes up for with his horn.
 
Because Juggernaut can tangentially apply force to repel Rhino? And the blunt force is superior which would damage Rhino thus extremely discourage him continuing? Not to mention Rhino couldn't turn once he starts charging.

And it's not like Juggernaut was braindead (and doesn't have "is stupid" as a weakness), he can reasonably come up with other methods. Also horn isn't relevant enough IMO
 
Rhino has taken a beating from stronger opponents before and kept going, such a minimal advantage wouldn't discourage him.

His charges are relatively fast, so not being able to turn isn't that much an issue, especially at this distance.

I mean, it's relevancy varies, but stabbing someone is a lot better than just punching them.
 
Rhino got oneshot by Luke Cage and once he gets hit by comparable opponents he easily goes down, hell his entire gimmick tends to be that he's the strongest guy in the room. If you're saying he tanks hits from the Hulk and other 4-B folks let me be quick to remind you that is massive PIS, and even in those scenarios Rhino was getting thrown across the battlefield and just wanted to escape.

Speed Equalized. Rhino possesses the same travel speed as Juggernaut, only projectile travel speeds are left as it is.

It's relevance is poor given he mainly doesn't go with it pointing towards the opponent. Before you go and provide me with 3 scans for over 300 appearances of the character and think that proves standard tactics, he uses it sometimes, but mostly it's blunt tackles and those horns were there for thematic reasons.
 
There's no kidding that he gets stomped by higher tier opponents, but he's generally treated as more durable than he is strong.

No kidding, I'm simply implying that he isn't a lumbering idiot when he charges.

It's relevance is poor given he mainly doesn't go with it pointing towards the opponent. Before you go and provide me with 3 scans for over 300 appearances of the character and think that proves standard tactics, he uses it sometimes, but mostly it's blunt tackles and those horns were there for thematic reasons.

Ignoring scans to discount evidence for a tactic that he obviously uses is a non-argument, I shouldn't have to approach you with every single instance in his run time where he's simply charged with his head down to get you to concede that he will do it.
 
No. He's treated as being a brute, his level of strength is shown on the same level as his durability, he just has miscellaneous resistances whih give the effect of him being far more resilient.

He is. That's the entire point. He cannot change his directions and idiot is literally how Spider-Man beats him.

Using two scans to establish a standard tactic for such an expansive character is a poorer tactic.
 
He's treated as a brute that usually gets hit more than he dishes out without being immediately floored, most of his fights reflect this.

Not changing direction =/= lumbering

The number seems to be getting lower, why are you so keen on undermining evidence for something he tends to do i character frequently?
 
His fights with comparable beings suggest otherwise.

In context of speed Equalization it would be treated as somewhat lumbering

why are you so keen on sounding like a dick welp, I suppose he does use it in character. I conceed.
 
I mean, I have a few examples around, but others just include him being able to take a beating from higher tiers.

Except he has been acknowledged for his agility before and shows he can in fact tag others, he won't tumble about like what a lumbering idiot implies.

I'm just reciprocating what I feel is being directed at me

Although I'm sorry if I just sound impatient with you, I usually give my two cents then leave so I'm not used to drawn out arguments. I mean no actual disrespect when I say these things.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
How strong is Rhino's horn?
It's just a point in which he can stab people with, it would be inconsistent to suggest he can actually harm the Hulk with it as this would be a mismatch, the scans were just to show that he uses it in character.
 
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