GOTENKS IS WEAK O.o ---> AP Buu Saga Review

[Tom4t0GG789]

Hello Everyone. Well while I review the Dragon Ball's Attack Potency Blog I see that put Gotenks (Pre-RoSat) > Majin Vegeta SS2

But the problem is that in the Daizenshuu 7 says that Gotenks after the training in the RoSaT supassed Majin Vegeta

Also the argument to put Gotenks Base (Post-RoSaT) > Gotenks SS (Pre-RoSaT) is for the Piccolo's statement that possibility that Gotenks can defeat Super Buu. But in posterior panels Piccolo doubts if he can beat Buu

For this motivo I considerate that the scale should change like this:

Spoiler: New Classification

• Post-RoSat training Base Gotenks surpasses Majin Vegeta SS2 - 1.053 KiloFoe (Solar System level)
  • Super Saiyan Gotenks is 50x base - 52.65 KiloFoe (Solar System level)
  • Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks is 8x Super Saiyan, Potential Unleashed Gohan is superior to both - 421.2 KiloFoe (Solar System level)
• Super Buu is around the same level as Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, later absorbing him adding his power to his own, and later absorbs Gohan after Gotenks defuses inside him, becoming even stronger - 842.4 KiloFoe (Solar System level)
• Base Vegito is superior to both Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and Potential Unleashed Gohan - 421.2 KiloFoe (Solar System level)
  • Super Saiyan Vegito is 50x base - 21.06 MegaFoe (Solar System level)

Agree: Damage3245
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, I think it was Krillin who outright compared Gotenks to Majin Vegeta even without the SSJ form. Though as for Post RoSaT surpassing SSJ Gotenks Pre-RoSaT; Piccolo still remembered what happened last time and insisted SSJ transformation, but sense his PL later and did rethinking that maybe they could without it.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Actually, I think it was Krillin who outright compared Gotenks to Majin Vegeta even without the SSJ form. Though as for Post RoSaT surpassing SSJ Gotenks Pre-RoSaT; Piccolo still remembered what happened last time and insisted SSJ transformation, but sense his PL later and did rethinking that maybe they could without it.

But my main problem is that Daizenshuu puts Gotenks Base Post RoSaT superior to Majin Vegeta implying that he was previously weaker.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Daizenshuu is not the primary canon compared to the original manga. It is simply secondary canon.

 

[GrayCraft_Dragon]

I agree with DarkDragonMedeus, it implies Pre RoSaT Gotenks even in base is comparable to Vegeta SSJ2.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Hello Everyone. Well while I review the Dragon Ball's Attack Potency Blog I see that put Gotenks (Pre-RoSat) > Majin Vegeta SS2

It should probably be worded as comparable rather than above (unless there's a manga statement actually putting him above), I believe it majorly comes from Gotenks surviving the fight with majin Buu and escaping under his own power, I may be wrong tho

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Daizenshuu is not the primary canon compared to the original manga. It is simply secondary canon.

Okay, I understand. Anyway, I wanted to clarify that doubt because it seemed strange to me

Thanks

 

[Damage3245]

Piccolo believes that Post-RoSAT Base Gotenks is capable of beating Super Buu

I don't agree with this reasoning for their Post-RoSAT base form surpassing their previous Super Saiyan form. Piccolo says nothing about them being able to beat Super Buu just in their base form, he is obviously still aware that they can transform into a Super Saiyan still. There's no reason to think he isn't taking into account their Super Saiyan form for this since if their base is massively stronger than they'll be massively stronger as a Super Saiyan too.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yeah I'd apply that statement to SSJ Gotenks, not Base Gotenks. As for the Daizenshuu statement, I'm torn. It's not like Krillin is an unreliable source, though iirc it was Gotenks's confidence that had him thinking "maybe he could beat Buu" even though Piccolo clearly thought otherwise. Based on this, I'd probably defer to the Daizenshuu statement and only scale Post-RoSAT Base Gotenks above Majin Vegeta

 

[Damage3245]

Also, Krillin never explicitly compared base Gotenks to SSJ2 Majin Vegeta. He just states that maybe Gotenks will pull it off (defeating Buu, that is), but Piccolo who is more intelligent than Krillin knows better has no faith at all that Gotenks can do it.


@Tom4t0GG789 You can put me down as Agree.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Also, Krillin never explicitly compared base Gotenks to SSJ2 Majin Vegeta. He just states that maybe Gotenks will pull it off (defeating Buu, that is), but Piccolo who is more intelligent than Krillin knows better has no faith at all that Gotenks can do it.


@Tom4t0GG789 You can put me down as Agree.

Okay, I was making the changes for my speed blog taking this into account, I'll have to make the changes again :'v

Thanks for your participation anyway

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Piccolo did NOT know Gotenks could still turn super Saiyan after fusing when he made that statement

 

[Damage3245]

Piccolo did NOT know Gotenks could still turn super Saiyan after fusing when he made that statement

Fair enough, I misremembered that part.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Also, the Daizenshuu 7 notes that Gotenks "seized the initiative battle" against Majin Buu multiple times, only to fail in the end, implying that his initial confrontation with Innocent Buu resulted in an even match that quickly escalated into a defeat due to unknown factors.

 

[Damage3245]

It could've very well been an even match with Gotenks still being much weaker than Majin Vegeta and Buu. Buu's durability is highly flexible and for all we know Gotenks could've landed several amazing hits on him and be no closer to killing him due to Buu's regeneration.

I still think it'd be better not to directly scale him over Majin SS2 Vegeta.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Also, the Daizenshuu 7 notes that Gotenks "seized the initiative battle" against Majin Buu multiple times, only to fail in the end, implying that his initial confrontation with Innocent Buu resulted in an even match that quickly escalated into a defeat due to unknown factors.

So that would make him comparable to Goku Super Saiyan 3 because he said he had the same strength as Buu.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Fair enough, I misremembered that part.

So I'll take you back as agreed? :v

 

[Damage3245]

So I'll take you back as agreed? :v

I'm still in agreement with the OP.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

I'm still in agreement with the OP.

Okey

 

[CloverDragon03]

It could've very well been an even match with Gotenks still being much weaker than Majin Vegeta and Buu.

I'm not sure how? Buu was manhandling Majin Vegeta. Having an even match with him would absolutely give Gotenks better scaling

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not sure how? Buu was manhandling Majin Vegeta. Having an even match with him would absolutely give Gotenks better scaling

What I meant was that Buu can sometimes get hurt pretty badly even by someone weaker than him (such as Kid Buu getting half his body evaporated by SSJ2 Vegeta despite Vegeta being weaker than him), the damage just doesn't stick and he doesn't get weaker.

So even if Gotenks "siezed the initiative" in these off-screen battles, he'd absolutely lose.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Obviously, Gotenks obviously couldn't beat Super Buu even in base or SSJ; he needed to go SSJ3 in the end just to be his equal. Or arguably, have an upperhand.

But, Gotenks in base doing better against Fat Buu than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta did and Krillin's statement about higher PL are given. And Piccolo was confident tables are turned in SSJ Gotenks. As for the Super Buu, Piccolo insisted to go SSJ due to what happened last time, but when he sensed the base PL of Gotenks, he noticed they've been training and calmed down realizing they might stand a chance.

So I think base Gotenks is should upscale from Majin Vegeta, though more neutral about stacking another 50x multiplier but leaning towards still keeping it.

 

[Damage3245]

But, Gotenks in base doing better against Fat Buu than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta did

This isn't really stated as far as I can tell. Vegeta also held the initiative against Buu at first. It was just an inevitable loss.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This isn't really stated as far as I can tell. Vegeta also held the initiative against Buu at first. It was just an inevitable loss.

Buu was holding back that entire fight because he wanted to enjoy the feeling of taking hits, and when he got serious, he outright stomped Vegeta.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Vegeta also held the initiative against Buu at first.

Vegeta unleashed upon Buu a flurry of strikes and a Final Impact, only for Buu to completely ignore the damage,—asserting the attacks only hurt a "tiny bit",—nearly incapacitate Vegeta with an Angry Explosion, and then brutalize him without resistance until Trunks stepped him.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

And we're to believe Buu wasn't also holding back against Gotenks, because?

 

[Nierre]

bump

 

[AwkguyDB]

Agree with DDM

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

I agree with this revision. I've always had a hard time swallowing the idea that pre-training base Gotenks was somehow stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta. The only proof is from an off-handed comment from Krillin who's in shock and considers maybe he can beat Innocent Buu, but Piccolo immediately shoots down the idea. As for base Gotenks performing better against Buu than SSJ2 Vegeta, there's several things wrong with this. First, the battle between Gotenks and Innocent Buu was never shown in the manga. Secondly, even in the anime, Gotenks is just as easily thrashed by Innocent Buu as Vegeta was. That does not give any proof that base Gotenks was somehow stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta or that Buu was taking that fight any more seriously. At most, that shows they could be comparable, but even that's not enough.

As for SSJ Gotenks surpassing Innocent Buu, Gotenks only assumes that, but Piccolo doesn't outright say it, and his profile said "the narrator confirms it", but nowhere in the manga chapters do I see such a statement. So, that justification just doesn't work.

For post-HBTC base Gotenks surpassing Majin Vegeta and his previous SSJ state, I also think that falls flat. The Daizenshuu statement only said that Gotenks had surpassed Majin Vegeta and the others, but nowhere does it imply that it's referring to base Gotenks. It is more likely to apply to SSJ Gotenks or SSJ3 Gotenks. Then there's the Piccolo statement saying "maybe he does have a chance" for base Gotenks. That seems to have been more of an overestimation generated from the surprise of seeing his power level rise. Once base Gotenks actually tries fighting Super Buu, he's easily manhandled, and Piccolo takes back his statement. So I believe it was just another humorous moment like the one before where Krillin assumes base Gotenks could beat Innocent Buu, but only to be proven wrong instantly.

Nobody's touched the base Vegito scaling, though I believe for manga scaling, it should be modified. In the manga, Vegito chooses to become a SSJ as soon as he transforms, implying that he didn't believe his base form would be enough to fight against Buuhan. It's only in the anime where base Vegito manages to walk circles around Buuhan, which gives more credence to him surpassing the strongest warriors at the time.

I made an equivalent thread touching on this a year ago, but I couldn't get enough traction for it.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Nobody's touched the base Vegito scaling, though I believe for manga scaling, it should be modified. In the manga, Vegito chooses to become a SSJ as soon as he transforms, implying that he didn't believe his base form would be enough to fight against Buuhan. It's only in the anime where base Vegito manages to walk circles around Buuhan, which gives more credence to him surpassing the strongest warriors at the time.

Vegito is only above Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks in base, he is not comparable to Buuhan

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Vegito is only above Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks in base, he is not comparable to Buuhan

Based on what? That's what I don't get. The only thing I see suggesting this in the manga is the Daizenshuu statement saying his base power surpassed SSJ3, but that would only apply to the anime. The manga gives no proof that base Vegito surpassed either Ultimate Gohan or SSJ3 Gotenks. Is it based on the DBS Super fusion multiplier?

 

[Ednaxel2]

That's what I don't get. The only thing I see suggesting this in the manga is the Daizenshuu statement saying his base power surpassed SSJ3, but that would only apply to the anime

Why at all would that Daizenshuu statement only apply to the anime? The Daizenshuu makes it explicitly clear when it's only talking about the Toei anime/movies via the star symbol, which is not at all present for that Vegito statement

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Based on what? That's what I don't get. The only thing I see suggesting this in the manga is the Daizenshuu statement saying his base power surpassed SSJ3, but that would only apply to the anime. The manga gives no proof that base Vegito surpassed either Ultimate Gohan or SSJ3 Gotenks. Is it based on the DBS Super fusion multiplier?

TLOM says Vegito is superior to a hypothetical fusion between Goku and Gohan
For that reason I consider Vegito Base > Gohan

 

[Tyri456]

Just an head up, when the Dainzeshu does this:

image hosted at ImgBB

Image image hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

it doesnt talk about BASE gotenks, it talks about gotenks as whole. in the real Magazine there are all the pic up to SSJ3. that is just a design made by translator.

there is absolutely no proof of gotenks surpassing vegeta in base