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Broly saga SSBKKX20 Goku vs SSJ Broly
fight takes place in some lava land place
speed is equal


goku:

broly:

inconclusive:
 
Bruh there is a good reason why goku and vegeta fused to fight broly because goku couldn't beat him, MUI was out of the question since he couldn't tap into it at will yet, he would have a chance then
 
Bruh there is a good reason why goku and vegeta fused to fight broly because goku couldn't beat him, MUI was out of the question since he couldn't tap into it at will yet, he would have a chance then
We're specifically talking about Kaioken here. We're saying if Goku could've beaten Broly with Kaioken he would've done so, but he didn't.
 
Goku beats Broly into a pulp. Super Saiyan wouldn't stack onto Wrathful since that's becoming an Oozaru unless we're gonna imply Super Broly is equivalent to Golden Oozaru so the 50x applies to his base form. And all he did was overpower Blue Goku and Vegeta kind of bad but they still hurt him with attacks. 20x onto THAT and Goku would beat him like he beat Nappa but worse. Broly's adaptation also didn't seem to go anywhere when he fought Gogeta as they were on par and when cornered Broly turned into his Legendary form. But since that's not on the table, Goku knocks him out cold.
 
Goku beats Broly into a pulp. Super Saiyan wouldn't stack onto Wrathful since that's becoming an Oozaru unless we're gonna imply Super Broly is equivalent to Golden Oozaru so the 50x applies to his base form. And all he did was overpower Blue Goku and Vegeta kind of bad but they still hurt him with attacks. 20x onto THAT and Goku would beat him like he beat Nappa but worse. Broly's adaptation also didn't seem to go anywhere when he fought Gogeta as they were on par and when cornered Broly turned into his Legendary form. But since that's not on the table, Goku knocks him out cold.
1. No they don't. Goku and Vegeta's combined attack does nothing to SSJ Broly and all they can is just dodge his attacks, which they manage to do him by being leagues above him in skill

2. SSJ can be stacked with the Ikari form, as the Ikari form is basically the Oozaru power in a humanoid form, which is completely seperate from SSJ. Broly also very obviously had a 50 times increase from his Ikari form rather than Base, since:

SSJ Gogeta > SSJ Broly > Base Gogeta > SSB Goku > Ikari Broly

Gogeta needed SSJ to hurt Broly, and while the fusion toyed with Broly in the entire battle, all Base Gogeta did is evade some attacks and immediately transform. SSJ is of course, a 50 times multiplier
 
I never thought about SSJ broly being stacked on top of ikari. But that doesn't make sense since SSJ is 50x on top of base, unless that wasn't just SSJ, it was like ikati SSJ but that just sounds like head canon.
 
I never thought about SSJ broly being stacked on top of ikari. But that doesn't make sense since SSJ is 50x on top of base, unless that wasn't just SSJ, it was like ikati SSJ but that just sounds like head canon.
Judging by feats, it seems Broly got 50 times stronger from his Ikari form rather than Base form, as Base Broly <<<< SSG Vegeta which would make his SSJ form weaker than SSB Goku or Vegeta, when it's clearly not the case, and even Gogeta, who is much stronger than both SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta, needed SSJ to overpower SSJ Broly

So it seems his SSJ form is SSJ stacked with Ikari rather than a simple SSJ
 
Judging by feats, it seems Broly got 50 times stronger from his Ikari form rather than Base form, as Base Broly <<<< SSG Vegeta which would make his SSJ form weaker than SSB Goku or Vegeta, when it's clearly not the case, and even Gogeta, who is much stronger than both SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta, needed SSJ to overpower SSJ Broly

So it seems his SSJ form is SSJ stacked with Ikari rather than a simple SSJ
I know that, I just interpreted this as broly getting stronger naturally, he went from losing to base vegeta to fighting him in SSJ and then being somewhat comparable to SSG. That makes more sense to me than breaking the SSJ = 50x base rule.
 
I know that, I just interpreted this as broly getting stronger naturally, he went from losing to base vegeta to fighting him in SSJ and then being somewhat comparable to SSG. That makes more sense to me than breaking the SSJ = 50x base rule.
It isn't breaking the rule since his SSJ form compared to Base is both the SSJ multiplier, and the multiplier he gets from his Ikari form, as this relates to the Oozaru power, which is completely different than SSJ
 
It isn't breaking the rule since his SSJ form compared to Base is both the SSJ multiplier, and the multiplier he gets from his Ikari form, as this relates to the Oozaru power, which is completely different than SSJ
That means the multiplier of the ssj he was in isn't 50x... since it's SSJ + Ikari, I still think it makes more sense if base broly just became stronger and is now comparable to base gogeta because he was comparable to ssj gogeta in ssj.
 
That means the multiplier of the ssj he was in isn't 50x... since it's SSJ + Ikari, I still think it makes more sense if base broly just became stronger and is now comparable to base gogeta because he was comparable to ssj gogeta in ssj.
How is that possible when Ikari Broly, who is far stronger than Base Broly, was losing to SSB Goku?

In fact, the only reason Frieza killed Paragus to trigger SSJ is because Broly could not defeat Goku with just Ikari
 
How is that possible when Ikari Broly, who is far stronger than Base Broly, was losing to SSB Goku?

In fact, the only reason Frieza killed Paragus to trigger SSJ is because Broly could not defeat Goku with just Ikari
Maybe it was a rage boost? Since he was going fully berserk, his power was greater than normal 50x. And then he had an hour to get stronger so his base likely caught up with gogeta but that's just up in the air because he was that strong before the hour too. The scaling doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it unless you assume that it was on top of ikari which also is weird.
Goku is Half 2-C by scaling to Beerus, It'll be a stomp in the other direction, plus UI instinctive reactions
UIS 3 Goku could beat LSSJ broly because scaling chain.
 
Maybe it was a rage boost? Since he was going fully berserk, his power was greater than normal 50x. And then he had an hour to get stronger so his base likely caught up with gogeta but that's just up in the air because he was that strong before the hour too. The scaling doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it unless you assume that it was on top of ikari which also is weird.
Assuming it was SSJ on top of Ikari seems like the simplest and most plausable explaination given the scaling chain for the movie

Your reasoning for Broly might be true, but we got no proof to your argument so until then this is kind of a headcanon
 
1. No they don't. Goku and Vegeta's combined attack does nothing to SSJ Broly and all they can is just dodge his attacks, which they manage to do him by being leagues above him in skill

2. SSJ can be stacked with the Ikari form, as the Ikari form is basically the Oozaru power in a humanoid form, which is completely seperate from SSJ. Broly also very obviously had a 50 times increase from his Ikari form rather than Base, since:

SSJ Gogeta > SSJ Broly > Base Gogeta > SSB Goku > Ikari Broly

Gogeta needed SSJ to hurt Broly, and while the fusion toyed with Broly in the entire battle, all Base Gogeta did is evade some attacks and immediately transform. SSJ is of course, a 50 times multiplier
1. Weakened Blue Goku and Vegeta? And no, they blatantly outrun him.

2. No it can't. It's literally becoming the Oozaru without the tail. Super Saiyan Broly is explicitly the same as the original variety so it's not stacking onto Ikari.
SS1 Gogeta>=SS1 Broly>>SSB Goku>Ikari Broly and I dunno why you put base Gogeta there at all since he did absolutely nothing. All he did was evade Broly and turn Super Saiyan.
Base Gogeta is absolutely featless. Never stated or shown that fusions in the anime are Blue level in their base form since Kefla had to turn Super Saiyan to fight tired Blue Goku. All Gogeta did was run and say he, the fusion, was stronger than Goku+Vegeta. Never said he's better than they ever were or ANYTHING like that.
 
. No it can't. It's literally becoming the Oozaru without the tail. Super Saiyan Broly is explicitly the same as the original variety so it's not stacking onto Ikari.
I only agree with this, the only thing that contradicts this is that broly's SSJ form's power is inconsistent with it's multiplier, because it's bigger than 50x base. The rest is bogus.
 
They don't scale vegito above SSB Goku and vegeta unfortunately.
What???

Vados literally states that the power of a potara fusion is more than the sum of the fusees power, and multiplied by tens of times

Hell, in the manga, Base Vegito blasts half of Fused Zamasu's face off, who easily stomped both SSB Goku and Vegeta

Base fusions are also also much stronger than their fusees highest form (Fused Zamasu >>>>> SSR Goku Black, Base Kefla >>>>> LSSJ2 Kale and SSJ2 Caulifla, Base Vegito >>>>> SSB Goku and Vegeta)
 
What???

Vados literally states that the power of a potara fusion is more than the sum of the fusees power, and multiplied by tens of times

Hell, in the manga, Base Vegito blasts half of Fused Zamasu's face off, who easily stomped both SSB Goku and Vegeta

Base fusions are also also much stronger than their fusees highest form (Fused Zamasu >>>>> SSR Goku Black, Base Kefla >>>>> LSSJ2 Kale and SSJ2 Caulifla, Base Vegito >>>>> SSB Goku and Vegeta)
Yeah exactly, remember my dbs speed scale? I scaled base vegito > SSB Goku with the same reasons, and I got slapped with the "zamasu arc scaling baaaad, multiplier abuuuuuuuse".
 
What???

Vados literally states that the power of a potara fusion is more than the sum of the fusees power, and multiplied by tens of times

Hell, in the manga, Base Vegito blasts half of Fused Zamasu's face off, who easily stomped both SSB Goku and Vegeta

Base fusions are also also much stronger than their fusees highest form (Fused Zamasu >>>>> SSR Goku Black, Base Kefla >>>>> LSSJ2 Kale and SSJ2 Caulifla, Base Vegito >>>>> SSB Goku and Vegeta)
I think he was talking about post TOP ssb goku
 
Ikari Broly = 10x Base Broly
Ikari Broly stomps SSG Goku
Ikari Broly <= SSB Goku (50x SSG)
SSJ Ikari Broly = 500x Base Broly (Not calculating for rage boost) (But if we accepted SSJ multipliers where SS2 is x2 SSJ and SS3 is x4 SS2, then based on Rage Boosted SS2 Vegeta being stronger than SS3 Goku in BoG arc, Rage Boosts = at least x4 which means Broly is actually 2500x base)
50x20 = SSBKKx20 = 1000x SSG

But
Frieza could survive against Broly for an hour whereas Toppo who was holding back one-shotted Frieza out of Golden Form and just generally embarrassed him, who is comparable to SSBE Vegeta who is = SSBKKx20 Goku several iterations ago.

Goku should dust Broly if he tries to end the fight ASAP but if he tries to go the distance Broly gets stronger, Goku loses stamina and gets stomped.

So Goku FRA
 
Base Broly is actually > SSJ Vegeta, but <<<< SSG Vegeta

Ikari Broly is weaker, but still somewhat comparable to SSB Goku = SSB Vegeta
 
If we assume that SSJ is a bigger amp than ikari then it makes no sense that broly didn't grow stronger since if his base was <<< SSG vegeta and he was more comparable to SSJ vegeta then that means his ikari form amped him from SSJ level to SSB levek which is a SSG level amp which is obviously much much greater than SSJ. So that supports that broly's base was getting stronger and kind of supports that broly's base became comparable to gogeta's base.
 
But Broly's SSJ form wasn't just SSJ. It was that + the Ikari boost

There's no way Base Broly = Base Gogeta >> SSB Goku > Ikari Broly >>> Base Broly
 
But Broly's SSJ form wasn't just SSJ. It was that + the Ikari boost

There's no way Base Broly = Base Gogeta >> SSB Goku > Ikari Broly >>> Base Broly
But that would mean that ikari is on the same level as SSG, even though it's supposed to be a weaker amp than SSJ, and we are just assuming that broly was in SSJ + Ikari just because it kind of fits the scaling.
What I'm saying is that after broly transformed into SSJ his base power increased too, so the gap between his ssj and base is still 50x.
 
SSG doesn't even have a set multiplier. Base Broly x10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSG
Where is the difficulty? That just means his base strength is close enough to the SSG multiplier such that Ikari makes it an absolute stomp. Plus he was learning how to fight so it's not like he just started using full strength from the beginning.
 
Frieza could survive against Broly for an hour whereas Toppo who was holding back one-shotted Frieza out of Golden Form and just generally embarrassed him, who is comparable to SSBE Vegeta who is = SSBKKx20 Goku several iterations ago.
Not to mention even after Vegeta ******* detonated himself, Jiren said he still had enough power to beat Toppo and Goku DIDN'T blow up.
And the fact they RECOVERED after that?
 
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