God of War magic energy system

[Theglassman12]

After quite some time we’ve finally gotten a blog in order. Hopefully this clarifies any and all misconceptions about how god of war’s magic energy system is supposed to work.

Agree: 12 (BEASTHEART880, Stefano4444, Deadguy, DaReaperMan, UchihaSlayer90 (on the higher ups scaling), Lightning XXI (same as Uchiha), Darksmash, Aetheric Pariah, Hellbeast (Agrees with the general premise), Elizhaa, Planck, Bernkastell)

Disagree: 1 Bambu (on magic weapons)

Neutral:

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Hopefully people will find this convincing even with rudimentary analysis.

Also many apologies to the GoW boyos for keeping them waiting, but can't be helped since I am AE1 of Laziness and Procrastination.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like @Mr._Bambu has some objections to the blog contents.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

It seems like @Mr._Bambu has some objections to the blog contents.

I'll alleviate them shortly. Hopefully we can come to a truce very easily.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

I agree with all of this. It's very well done.

 

[Stefano4444]

I also agree with the entire blog.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

~~When is MrBambu gonna respond~~

 

[Deadguy]

Seems good enough I agree

 

[Antvasima]

~~When is MrBambu gonna respond~~

@Mr._Bambu

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Homie it hasn't even been a day.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

we follow in steps of dmc and take a month

 

[Antvasima]

Homie it hasn't even been a day.

Okay. My apologies.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It's not your fault. I was referring to users calling me to reply.

 

[DaReaperMan]

There are a few things wrong with this, the core itself is fine however.

First of all, it completely ignores that magic does not necessarily equal power, I mean, look at Heracles for instance, he straight up doesn't have magic and yet he's relative to GoW 3 Kratos, and the Talos automatons didn't need magic for strength - it just gave them fancy attacks based on elements.

Second of all, it never mentioned the furies' magic and never really attempts to reconcile it.

Third of all, it also includes summons as a reason to scale, which is messy at best since it bases it's point off the Gauntlet, which kind of has no reason to scale to anything but itself and God tiers.

Those are my gripes with it, the core is fine but it's messy and I'm kinda disappointed myself it has so much positive reception.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Now I will say that it was technically the claws of hades and the blades of exile that were used for the summon and the Gauntlet of Zeus was just used for speed, but same difference.

And Cestus is just a weapon and Herc was still comparable Kratos without it.

Now to wait for Glass's Russian novel.

 

[Theglassman12]

The fact that Hercules can use the entire abilities of the Nemean Cestus, including those that require magic is proof enough that he has magic.

as for the furies you have an in game description of one of the furies weapons being dripped with their magic. Add that with all the explanation of how magic works in god of war and they’d scale in physical strength.

what about the summons disproves the point that they require magic? The thing that in verse scales to strength?

Hercules was barely comparable to Kratos when he lost his weapons. When you steal them you’re thrashing him far harder than before and you overpower him when he tries to throw you off the cliff.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The fact that Hercules can use the entire abilities of the Nemean Cestus, including those that require magic is proof enough that he has magic.

as for the furies you have an in game description of one of the furies weapons being dripped with their magic. Add that with all the explanation of how magic works in god of war and they’d scale in physical strength.

what about the summons disproves the point that they require magic? The thing that in verse scales to strength?

Hercules was barely comparable to Kratos when he lost his weapons. When you steal them you’re thrashing him far harder than before and you overpower him when he tries to throw you off the cliff.

And this isn't just the magical properties of the weapon, why?

If there's more evidence I'd like to have it. Thank you for it though

The Claws of Hades for one thing, as they have the same exact potency(that we know of) in Kratos's hands as they are in Hades'. But also the fact that summons are never, ever automatically scaled to the magic used to summon them without very good reason.

Yes because Kratos has a weapon, a skill advantage, and a strength advantage whereas Heracles is left with his fists.

 

[Theglassman12]

It uses Kratos’ own magic to do it, as shown in the game.

there’s likely more weapons and armor with similar descriptions but I’d have to dig deeper into the wiki to find them.

It does get stronger when you factor in the red orbs but thats likely for another topic.

he wasn’t able to match Hercules’ strength to the same extent when he had the cestus. The main reason he disarmed him was because he got cocky and didn’t pay attention to Kratos when he came at him from behind, after that Kratos had the high ground.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

And this isn't just the magical properties of the weapon, why

You do realise you need to use your own magic to operate weapons?

The Claws of Hades for one thing, as they have the same exact potency(that we know of) in Kratos's hands as they are in Hades'. But also the fact that summons are never, ever automatically scaled to the magic used to summon them without very good reason.

Kratos negged Hades, I don't know where you are getting this "exact same potency" from.

The fact that Souls are durable against enemies of similar strength and damage them same as Kratos?
Souls scaling to Kratos has been a thing since Ascension, when he didn't even have Claws.
Every soul magic beyond that works same way.
Otherwise it wouldn't be a useful ability besides some hax.

Yes because Kratos has a weapon, a skill advantage, and a strength advantage whereas Heracles is left with his fists

So you do agree Hercules becomes weaker without Cestus.

 

[DaReaperMan]

And Kratos isn't simply Empowering it with his own magic why?

Gilver. Do you even realize what you just said. You just said that someone's soul resistance being better then someone else's means their soul hax using their own weapon is also stronger. No.

Well yeah, the man without a weapon is generally gonna lose to the guy with one. But that's the weapon Empowering Heracles, not the other way around.

 

[Theglassman12]

And Kratos isn't simply Empowering it with his own magic why?

I’m pretty sure we were arguing that this entire thread.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

And Kratos isn't simply Empowering it with his own magic why?

What's your point?
Once you argue weapon amps him, once you argue Kratos amps weapon.
Be clear with your arguments

Gilver. Do you even realize what you just said. You just said that someone's soul resistance being better then someone else's means their soul hax using their own weapon is also stronger. No.

You talk about durability of soul and now you suddenly shifted to something about soul resistance?
Stick to your guns man.

Well yeah, the man without a weapon is generally gonna lose to the guy with one. But that's the weapon Empowering Heracles, not the other way around

Contradiction to your first line in same comment.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I’m pretty sure we were arguing that this entire thread.

Then it's actually a non-factor and doesn't disprove that Heracles doesn't have magic and yet is still in the same ball park as the god tiers.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Then it's actually a non-factor and doesn't disprove that Heracles doesn't have magic and yet is still in the same ball park as the god tiers.

Then how the hell is he able to operate a magical weapon??

 

[DaReaperMan]

What's your point?
Once you argue weapon amps him, once you argue Kratos amps weapon.
Be clear with your arguments

You talk about durability of soul and now you suddenly shifted to something about soul resistance?
Stick to your guns man.

Contradiction to your first line in same comment.

I'm arguing both, Kratos is Empowering the weapons with his magic, but the weapons can also empower the wielder.

No, I didn't. If you saw it that way remove your lenses that are spray-painted black.

There isn't. Heracles got his ass handed to him without the weapon Empowering him. But he is still in the same ball park as the god tiers without it.

Then how the hell is he able to operate a magical weapon??

Cause the damn weapon has magical properties. You know, a REALLY common trope in fantasy?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I'm arguing both, Kratos is Empowering the weapons with his magic, but the weapons can also empower the wielder.

Congratulations, that was roughly the whole point of the thread, now you are much more clear, though I wouldn't use word Empowerment, since its kinda a different ability on P&A.

But it still doesn't help your arguements that your own magic needs to be expended via channeling through weapon for magic attacks. Which would be impossible without general reservoir.

No, I didn't. If you saw it that way remove your lenses that are spray-painted black.

The Claws of Hades for one thing, as they have the same exact potency(that we know of) in Kratos's hands as they are in Hades'. But also the fact that summons are never, ever automatically scaled to the magic used to summon them without very good reason.

There isn't. Heracles got his ass handed to him without the weapon Empowering him. But he is still in the same ball park as the god tiers without it.

......already answered.

 

[Stefano4444]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions here so far?

 

[Theglassman12]

Bambu hasn't responded, either he doesn't wanna debate here and this can be accepted or we wait.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I think this can be accepted, my gripes have been answered, even if I don't fully agree with those answers

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody remind me what is suggested here and what has been discussed so far in a concise explanation please?

 

[Theglassman12]

@Antvasima magic scales to physical strength in god of war, meaning literally any and all feats that's done by one's magic would scale to their physical stats since the verse hammers it home that it would scale, meaning the tier 7 feats that the lower tier characters have would end up staying since the crux of a previous CRT is that they don't scale to physical strength, which this blog debunks.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, and which staff members agree with this and which of them disagree?

 

[Theglassman12]

Only I agree, Bambu is the only other staff who's commented, Planck in another thread was buying the energy scaling but he hasn't commented here as of yet, he and Elizhaa should be contacted to this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

@Antvasima magic scales to physical strength in god of war, meaning literally any and all feats that's done by one's magic would scale to their physical stats since the verse hammers it home that it would scale, meaning the tier 7 feats that the lower tier characters have would end up staying since the crux of a previous CRT is that they don't scale to physical strength, which this blog debunks.

@Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Planck69

WOuld you be willing to help out with input here please?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't agree with this, no.

The magic items have feats outside of those shown by the character. The fact that they are fueled by mana owned by the character isn't evidence to support the claim above. In fact, it would conversely imply Kratos should well have those levels of strength without the magic items- and thus, for a few of them, wouldn't even need the things. No, magic items have their own strengths, and mana is needed to use them- having read the blog, it does not seem to go deeper than that.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

In fact, it would conversely imply Kratos should well have those levels of strength without the magic items- and thus, for a few of them, wouldn't even need the things.

My chains of olympus section debunks this notion entirely.
The last boss fight is filled with story scripted events where Kratos is capable of 2C AP and Infinite speed feats without Gauntlets of Zeus being wielded on his hands, just by being in his storage. Which would be impossible without shared magic.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Why would it be impossible, pray tell? I don't necessarily agree with the God of War ratings as they are, but I'd like you to elaborate on that point quite a lot, if you don't mind. It should be clear that I read the entire blog fairly carefully, and this hardly seems like a significant debunk with that in mind.

 

[Antvasima]

Bambu seems to make sense to me. Thank you for helping out.