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Hey all. This relatively large CRT will be going over a bunch of Giorno and Gold Experience additions, as well as a couple of hopefully uncontroversial GER additions. As the title says, this thread will not be going over GER's Return to Zero, so please can people refrain from talking about RTZ here unless there is good reason to.
Quick overview of what I will be attempting to add is below:
Giorno:
Giorno:
Social Influencing - During Giorno's introduction to the gang, Bruno makes note of how Giorno has a talent for getting people to accept him. In the aftermath of the Man in the Mirror fight, Fugo mentions how there's something about Giorno's actions that puts his trust in him, and how that trust cannot be expressed in mere words. Mista also says how Giorno has been 'guiding him this whole time' without either of them realizing it, as well as saying Giorno is more of a leader to him than Bruno, despite him being a newbie in the group. There's also the whole 'Resolve' speech Giorno gave to Mista, which motivated Mista into fighting a deadly and bloody battle against Ghiaccio. Narancia states how as long as Giorno is with the group, they 'might just have hope', as well as saying Giorno is like the commander of the group despite only very recently joining.
For what its worth, Mista mentions how all of this stuff is happening after Giorno has joined. It should also be noted that Giorno is the son of Dio, who is the most charismatic ****** in JoJo as well as the biggest example of social influencing in JoJo. Bruno also says that Giorno always fills him with courage, allowing him to move forward and protect Trish even whilst he's on the verge of death.
Scans
Supernatural Willpower - (Important note: Whilst there is a stand physiology page being created with Supernatural Willpower in it, some of the feats that Giorno perform are still note worthy to be listed on his profile.)
For starters, requiring a stand already requires a tremendous amount of will and they can controlled by a strong spirit. If they do not have this spirit and will, the stand will eventually kill the user, as evidenced by Holly. Black Sabbath also mentions that if a person dies from being hit from the stand arrow, then their soul 'was not one of the chosen ones'. Stand users can also withstand major punishment and take direct hits to their soul. In Giorno's case, he also willingly tore apart and broke his arm in order to say his resolve speech to Mista. He also broke off both of his arms in order to save his allies against Notorious BIG. Giorno was also 'more than capable of killing' Chocolata (7 page muda showcases this) whilst sustaining major injuries. Resolve is also one of the biggest themes in Part 5, for what it's worth.
Stealth Mastery - Giorno is a very impressive pickpocketer. He was able to steal a prison guard's wallet in the middle of his body search without her noticing. He also admitted himself that pickpocketing is a talent of his. Whilst in the anime only, during the premiere of Golden Wind, Giorno was able to take back a wallet from a pickpocketer who snatched it from a women without him noticing. After returning the wallet back to her, he transformed the money inside it into butterflies which flew back to him, without the women noticing before the money was already gone. Giorno also transmuted a gun into a banana without Polpo realizing, leading to his suicide when he tried to eat it. (Interestingly, unlike in the anime, there is no sign of Gold Experience when Giorno turned the banana into the gun). He also instantly imbrewed life into the bullet that Ghiaccio shot at Mista's head, causing it to become new tissue before it could finish him off, all before Ghiaccio noticed that Giorno had even arrived on the scene. (To show how fast this was, Sex Pistols were already fading away, meaning Mista was already about to die before Ghiaccio delivered the head shot.)
Minor Body Control - Can tuck all of his ear into his ear hole, and has done so lot on multiple occasions. He referred to it as a talent of his.
Gold Experience:
Adept Hand to Hand combat skills - Shown here
Duplication - Giorno took the cells of Coco Jumbo and put them into a brooch. That brooch then turned into an exact clone of Coco Jumbo, with it having the exact same physical features as Coco Jumbo along with the exact same stand, Mr. President. Scans
Sense Manipulation (replacing perception manipulation) - By injecting life into a living target via simply punching them with Gold Experience, the target's senses will go 'out of control' and 'rampage', causing them to accelerate far beyond the target's ability to move. For the target, it would initially feel like they've been injected with newfound strength and speed, evidenced when Bruno 'bent' the railing without even intending to. However, none of that happens in reality as only their consciousness will experience that, not the actual body itself and said body can't move during this period. As Giorno himself mentions in the fight against Black Sabbath,
"Its senses should be moving far ahead of its actual physical capabilities. It should barely be able to move."
Instead, everything will then feel slow for the target; their movements and even the feeling of pain will feel slow. Bruno also explicitly mentions that Giorno's 'lack of power' makes the pain even worse, and that he'll 'die of shock' if hit multiple times by Gold Experience's punches.
Now, sense manipulation should replace perception manipulation as Giorno isn't making people see or hear things that aren't there or lack thereof. In every single fight that Giorno used this ability, he always explicitly mentioned how the opponent's senses in particular go out of control in all of them. Gold Experience's stand stats also state how the individual's senses will go out of control. Hence sense manipulation is much better suited for this ability than perception manipulation.
Album linking to all scans where sense manipulation is stated
Limited Necromancy - Giorno should have some form of necromancy as the life energy that he gave to Bruno, healing his wounds in the process, allowed his soul to reinhabit his body after he died in his fight against Diavolo, effectively bringing him back to "life". That life energy allowed Bruno to continue living as a zombie and function mostly ok for the next few days (the fact that Green Day didn't work on Bruno makes it clear that wasn't 'alive' when Gio brought him back, hence why this is listed as necromancy rather than resurrection). However, the life energy was eventually running out and Bruno stopped functioning correctly (couldn't see and feel in his interaction with Doppio) hence why this is only listed as 'limited'.
Scans which show that it was Giorno's life energy that allowed Bruno to keep going after he died.
Life Created by Gold Experience:
Natural Weaponry - Scorpions, piranhas, etc.
Small Size (Type 1 and 2) - Most of his organisms for type 1. Ants, flies, etc. for type 2
Surface Scaling - Frogs, flies, etc.
Unconventional Sealing + Spatial Manipulation/Size Manipulation or Whatever Mr.President does - Giorno's clone of Coco Jumbo has the same stand ability as the original, evidenced when the turtle sealed away King Crimson and Diavolo in the room inside itself against their will, which was done in order to save Bruno's and Trish's life. This is being listed as 'unconventional' sealing as the turtle isn't typically used for offensive purposes and it isn't that hard to get out of the turtle anyway since it isn't meant to permanently seal people away in the room inside itself. Beyond that however, unfortunately, the stand stats and description of Mr. President has not been translated yet (or I simply cannot find it) so the other abilities I suggested are just throwing a few ideas out of how Mr. President traps people in the room inside the turtle. Scans of Mr. President's stand stats and description.
Edit: Mr. President's translated stand stats and description are here.
Gold Experience Requiem:
All previous abilities to a greater extent - Within JOJO-AGOGO, there is a panel in the bottom right corner which states the following:
矢に質かれてゴールドエクスペリエンスの能力が進化しパワーとスピードが大幅にアップ。
"The ability of Gold Experience has evolved and the power and speed have been greatly increased"
So yeah, it's stated here that the regular GE abilities have evolved and are superior to before. It also states that it's power and speed has greatly increased though chances are that is just talking about GER's physical characteristics rather than greater potency in regular GE's abilities.
In regards to feats, GER proceeds to then flick a pebble through KC's hand, destroying a pillar before turning the debris into scorpions, without touching them. This is something that regular GE could absolutely not do, as GE needed direct hand contact with objects in order to turn them into organisms. Obviously, GER did not make direct contact with the debris here, yet they were still turned into scorpions nonetheless. Hence, the increased effectiveness and potency of his 'Life Giver' ability, along with increased power and speed to boot.
Telekinesis - GER is shown levitating in the sky when it first appeared. More notably Giorno is also shown levitating alongside GER. Multiple pebbles and rocks are also shown levitating alongside Giorno and GER. In addition to that, in the anime, GER is shown pointing at a pebble, lifting it up, and firing it at Diavolo, all without ever making physical contact with it. This could have also been what happened in the manga, but it's relatively unclear there.
Enhanced Senses - Ranked 'None' in Precision, meaning it can not be measured using stand stats, putting it above the likes of Star Platinum, which does have its stats measured.
Pain amplification - During the death loop, Diavolo makes numerous mentions of the sheer amount of pain he's experiencing, most notably at one point describing the pain as 'beyond all imagination', even though with his previous feats and how the pain was caused, it shouldn't have provoked that kind of reaction and agony that Diavolo went through.
"And then that sensation... That pain beyond all imagination... in the morgue..."
Him having incredibly terrified and shocked emotions to the pain felt there and in earlier parts of the death loop also showcases the pain amplification, as it contrasts with how stoic and unfazed he was when Polnareff sliced his arm, which caused a relatively large amount of bleeding. Now don't get me wrong here, getting stabbed does hurt (wow no shit) but to go from no selling your arm getting sliced up by one of the stronger stands in the series to describing getting stabbed by a regular knife as something beyond anything you ever thought before definitely shows some pain manip in play.
Other examples of pain amplification in play in other areas of the death loop include Diavolo not even being able to stand after being stabbed by a knife, despite him having very high stamina. For what it's worth, Diavolo also mentions the pain caused from being stabbed in the liver and from the autospy, which may not seem like much, but what's interesting is the way how he describes the pain, as he asks it like a question, as if the pain caused is a lot more than what it should be. The last quote empathises this, with the questioning of pain coming after other questions Diavolo asked.
"Th...This can't be! I can't stand! Uoh...Gaaagh!" ..... "This pain... not here...! I...I am Diavolo! How can this scum..."
"You, woman! Who are you, and what are you doing!? Why can't I move my body!? A...And what is this pain!?"
Standard Equipment and Intelligence:
Coco Jumbo (the turtle) should be added to Giorno's equipment. After Bruno first found the turtle in Naples's train station, it has always been with the gang throughout all situations as well being utilized for a variety of reasons, such as consistently being used as a safe room for any injured member of the group, sneak abroad various means of transportation and at points playing a crucial role in saving members of the group from death, most notably when Giorno's clone of the turtle saved Bruno and Trish from death at the hands of Diavolo. At the end of part 5, the turtle permanently stays with Giorno when he becomes boss of Passione, now with Polnareff's soul residing within it. For this, Coco Jumbo should be listed as standard equipment for both of his keys.
Regarding Giorno's intelligence, and let me know if am I mistaken here, but wasn't it agreed upon in this thread that Giorno's intelligence would become 'Gifted, possibly Genius' rather than just simply 'Gifted'? In any case, I believe Giorno's intelligence should be upgraded to a Genius rating regardless. In addition to the feats that were brought up in that thread, Giorno deciphered Babyface's entire ability (which deconstructs bodies and objects and reconstructs them into anything he desires) just by removing the key from the turtle and seeing the furniture being reconstructed into a rock. Fugo, who has genius level intellect, made note of how Giorno 'thinks and acts on an insane scale' as well as mentioning he has 'hidden potential for great growth in the future'. (Though this last bit may not necessarily be referring to Giorno's intelligence and could instead be referring to the potential and growth of his stand abilities for example.) Fugo also mentions how Giorno comes up with 'unbelievable ideas and carries them out. Giorno also figured out Illuso's ability just by noticing missing shards in mirrors and even let himself get infected by the purple haze virus just so Illuso would also get infected when he tried to take Giorno into the mirror world. And finally, Giorno deducted that Diavolo was possessing one of the team just by examining Mista's broken revolver. Obviously if these feats and the genius rating gets accepted, Genius Intelligence would be added to Giorno's profile.
And that should be all. Feedback would be greatly appreciated, particularly for the Mr. President stuff as the stand's description hasn't been translated yet.
Agree: Chariot190 (Neutral on Pain amp and telekinesis, only possibly for Enhanced senses. Agrees with rest, though suggests an alternative for how Coco Jumbo is handled), Rez (Neutral on telekinesis and Pain amp, agrees with rest), Cloozuma (Disagrees on Pain amp, agrees with rest), Mister6ame6 (Neutral on Pain amp, agrees with rest), Thelastmlg (Neutral on Pain amp, agrees with rest), Korby (Agrees with all), Sir_Ovens (Staff), CrimsonStarFallen, JustSomeWeirdo (Staff)
Disagree:
Neutral:
Quick overview of what I will be attempting to add is below:
Giorno:
- Social Influencing
- Supernatural Willpower
- Stealth Mastery
- Minor Body Control
- Adept Hand to Hand combat skills
- Duplication
- Sense Manipulation replacing Perception Manipulation
- Limited Necromancy
- Natural Weaponry
- Small Size (Type 1 and 2)
- Surface Scaling
- Unconventional Sealing + Spatial Manipulation/Size Manipulation
- All previous abilities to a greater extent
- Telekinesis
- Enhanced Senses
- Pain amplification
Giorno:
Social Influencing - During Giorno's introduction to the gang, Bruno makes note of how Giorno has a talent for getting people to accept him. In the aftermath of the Man in the Mirror fight, Fugo mentions how there's something about Giorno's actions that puts his trust in him, and how that trust cannot be expressed in mere words. Mista also says how Giorno has been 'guiding him this whole time' without either of them realizing it, as well as saying Giorno is more of a leader to him than Bruno, despite him being a newbie in the group. There's also the whole 'Resolve' speech Giorno gave to Mista, which motivated Mista into fighting a deadly and bloody battle against Ghiaccio. Narancia states how as long as Giorno is with the group, they 'might just have hope', as well as saying Giorno is like the commander of the group despite only very recently joining.
For what its worth, Mista mentions how all of this stuff is happening after Giorno has joined. It should also be noted that Giorno is the son of Dio, who is the most charismatic ****** in JoJo as well as the biggest example of social influencing in JoJo. Bruno also says that Giorno always fills him with courage, allowing him to move forward and protect Trish even whilst he's on the verge of death.
Scans
Supernatural Willpower - (Important note: Whilst there is a stand physiology page being created with Supernatural Willpower in it, some of the feats that Giorno perform are still note worthy to be listed on his profile.)
For starters, requiring a stand already requires a tremendous amount of will and they can controlled by a strong spirit. If they do not have this spirit and will, the stand will eventually kill the user, as evidenced by Holly. Black Sabbath also mentions that if a person dies from being hit from the stand arrow, then their soul 'was not one of the chosen ones'. Stand users can also withstand major punishment and take direct hits to their soul. In Giorno's case, he also willingly tore apart and broke his arm in order to say his resolve speech to Mista. He also broke off both of his arms in order to save his allies against Notorious BIG. Giorno was also 'more than capable of killing' Chocolata (7 page muda showcases this) whilst sustaining major injuries. Resolve is also one of the biggest themes in Part 5, for what it's worth.
Stealth Mastery - Giorno is a very impressive pickpocketer. He was able to steal a prison guard's wallet in the middle of his body search without her noticing. He also admitted himself that pickpocketing is a talent of his. Whilst in the anime only, during the premiere of Golden Wind, Giorno was able to take back a wallet from a pickpocketer who snatched it from a women without him noticing. After returning the wallet back to her, he transformed the money inside it into butterflies which flew back to him, without the women noticing before the money was already gone. Giorno also transmuted a gun into a banana without Polpo realizing, leading to his suicide when he tried to eat it. (Interestingly, unlike in the anime, there is no sign of Gold Experience when Giorno turned the banana into the gun). He also instantly imbrewed life into the bullet that Ghiaccio shot at Mista's head, causing it to become new tissue before it could finish him off, all before Ghiaccio noticed that Giorno had even arrived on the scene. (To show how fast this was, Sex Pistols were already fading away, meaning Mista was already about to die before Ghiaccio delivered the head shot.)
Minor Body Control - Can tuck all of his ear into his ear hole, and has done so lot on multiple occasions. He referred to it as a talent of his.
Gold Experience:
Adept Hand to Hand combat skills - Shown here
Duplication - Giorno took the cells of Coco Jumbo and put them into a brooch. That brooch then turned into an exact clone of Coco Jumbo, with it having the exact same physical features as Coco Jumbo along with the exact same stand, Mr. President. Scans
Sense Manipulation (replacing perception manipulation) - By injecting life into a living target via simply punching them with Gold Experience, the target's senses will go 'out of control' and 'rampage', causing them to accelerate far beyond the target's ability to move. For the target, it would initially feel like they've been injected with newfound strength and speed, evidenced when Bruno 'bent' the railing without even intending to. However, none of that happens in reality as only their consciousness will experience that, not the actual body itself and said body can't move during this period. As Giorno himself mentions in the fight against Black Sabbath,
"Its senses should be moving far ahead of its actual physical capabilities. It should barely be able to move."
Instead, everything will then feel slow for the target; their movements and even the feeling of pain will feel slow. Bruno also explicitly mentions that Giorno's 'lack of power' makes the pain even worse, and that he'll 'die of shock' if hit multiple times by Gold Experience's punches.
Now, sense manipulation should replace perception manipulation as Giorno isn't making people see or hear things that aren't there or lack thereof. In every single fight that Giorno used this ability, he always explicitly mentioned how the opponent's senses in particular go out of control in all of them. Gold Experience's stand stats also state how the individual's senses will go out of control. Hence sense manipulation is much better suited for this ability than perception manipulation.
Album linking to all scans where sense manipulation is stated
Limited Necromancy - Giorno should have some form of necromancy as the life energy that he gave to Bruno, healing his wounds in the process, allowed his soul to reinhabit his body after he died in his fight against Diavolo, effectively bringing him back to "life". That life energy allowed Bruno to continue living as a zombie and function mostly ok for the next few days (the fact that Green Day didn't work on Bruno makes it clear that wasn't 'alive' when Gio brought him back, hence why this is listed as necromancy rather than resurrection). However, the life energy was eventually running out and Bruno stopped functioning correctly (couldn't see and feel in his interaction with Doppio) hence why this is only listed as 'limited'.
Scans which show that it was Giorno's life energy that allowed Bruno to keep going after he died.
Life Created by Gold Experience:
Natural Weaponry - Scorpions, piranhas, etc.
Small Size (Type 1 and 2) - Most of his organisms for type 1. Ants, flies, etc. for type 2
Surface Scaling - Frogs, flies, etc.
Unconventional Sealing + Spatial Manipulation/Size Manipulation or Whatever Mr.President does - Giorno's clone of Coco Jumbo has the same stand ability as the original, evidenced when the turtle sealed away King Crimson and Diavolo in the room inside itself against their will, which was done in order to save Bruno's and Trish's life. This is being listed as 'unconventional' sealing as the turtle isn't typically used for offensive purposes and it isn't that hard to get out of the turtle anyway since it isn't meant to permanently seal people away in the room inside itself. Beyond that however, unfortunately, the stand stats and description of Mr. President has not been translated yet (or I simply cannot find it) so the other abilities I suggested are just throwing a few ideas out of how Mr. President traps people in the room inside the turtle. Scans of Mr. President's stand stats and description.
Edit: Mr. President's translated stand stats and description are here.
Gold Experience Requiem:
All previous abilities to a greater extent - Within JOJO-AGOGO, there is a panel in the bottom right corner which states the following:
矢に質かれてゴールドエクスペリエンスの能力が進化しパワーとスピードが大幅にアップ。
"The ability of Gold Experience has evolved and the power and speed have been greatly increased"
So yeah, it's stated here that the regular GE abilities have evolved and are superior to before. It also states that it's power and speed has greatly increased though chances are that is just talking about GER's physical characteristics rather than greater potency in regular GE's abilities.
In regards to feats, GER proceeds to then flick a pebble through KC's hand, destroying a pillar before turning the debris into scorpions, without touching them. This is something that regular GE could absolutely not do, as GE needed direct hand contact with objects in order to turn them into organisms. Obviously, GER did not make direct contact with the debris here, yet they were still turned into scorpions nonetheless. Hence, the increased effectiveness and potency of his 'Life Giver' ability, along with increased power and speed to boot.
Telekinesis - GER is shown levitating in the sky when it first appeared. More notably Giorno is also shown levitating alongside GER. Multiple pebbles and rocks are also shown levitating alongside Giorno and GER. In addition to that, in the anime, GER is shown pointing at a pebble, lifting it up, and firing it at Diavolo, all without ever making physical contact with it. This could have also been what happened in the manga, but it's relatively unclear there.
Enhanced Senses - Ranked 'None' in Precision, meaning it can not be measured using stand stats, putting it above the likes of Star Platinum, which does have its stats measured.
Pain amplification - During the death loop, Diavolo makes numerous mentions of the sheer amount of pain he's experiencing, most notably at one point describing the pain as 'beyond all imagination', even though with his previous feats and how the pain was caused, it shouldn't have provoked that kind of reaction and agony that Diavolo went through.
"And then that sensation... That pain beyond all imagination... in the morgue..."
Him having incredibly terrified and shocked emotions to the pain felt there and in earlier parts of the death loop also showcases the pain amplification, as it contrasts with how stoic and unfazed he was when Polnareff sliced his arm, which caused a relatively large amount of bleeding. Now don't get me wrong here, getting stabbed does hurt (wow no shit) but to go from no selling your arm getting sliced up by one of the stronger stands in the series to describing getting stabbed by a regular knife as something beyond anything you ever thought before definitely shows some pain manip in play.
Other examples of pain amplification in play in other areas of the death loop include Diavolo not even being able to stand after being stabbed by a knife, despite him having very high stamina. For what it's worth, Diavolo also mentions the pain caused from being stabbed in the liver and from the autospy, which may not seem like much, but what's interesting is the way how he describes the pain, as he asks it like a question, as if the pain caused is a lot more than what it should be. The last quote empathises this, with the questioning of pain coming after other questions Diavolo asked.
"Th...This can't be! I can't stand! Uoh...Gaaagh!" ..... "This pain... not here...! I...I am Diavolo! How can this scum..."
"You, woman! Who are you, and what are you doing!? Why can't I move my body!? A...And what is this pain!?"
Standard Equipment and Intelligence:
Coco Jumbo (the turtle) should be added to Giorno's equipment. After Bruno first found the turtle in Naples's train station, it has always been with the gang throughout all situations as well being utilized for a variety of reasons, such as consistently being used as a safe room for any injured member of the group, sneak abroad various means of transportation and at points playing a crucial role in saving members of the group from death, most notably when Giorno's clone of the turtle saved Bruno and Trish from death at the hands of Diavolo. At the end of part 5, the turtle permanently stays with Giorno when he becomes boss of Passione, now with Polnareff's soul residing within it. For this, Coco Jumbo should be listed as standard equipment for both of his keys.
Regarding Giorno's intelligence, and let me know if am I mistaken here, but wasn't it agreed upon in this thread that Giorno's intelligence would become 'Gifted, possibly Genius' rather than just simply 'Gifted'? In any case, I believe Giorno's intelligence should be upgraded to a Genius rating regardless. In addition to the feats that were brought up in that thread, Giorno deciphered Babyface's entire ability (which deconstructs bodies and objects and reconstructs them into anything he desires) just by removing the key from the turtle and seeing the furniture being reconstructed into a rock. Fugo, who has genius level intellect, made note of how Giorno 'thinks and acts on an insane scale' as well as mentioning he has 'hidden potential for great growth in the future'. (Though this last bit may not necessarily be referring to Giorno's intelligence and could instead be referring to the potential and growth of his stand abilities for example.) Fugo also mentions how Giorno comes up with 'unbelievable ideas and carries them out. Giorno also figured out Illuso's ability just by noticing missing shards in mirrors and even let himself get infected by the purple haze virus just so Illuso would also get infected when he tried to take Giorno into the mirror world. And finally, Giorno deducted that Diavolo was possessing one of the team just by examining Mista's broken revolver. Obviously if these feats and the genius rating gets accepted, Genius Intelligence would be added to Giorno's profile.
And that should be all. Feedback would be greatly appreciated, particularly for the Mr. President stuff as the stand's description hasn't been translated yet.
Agree: Chariot190 (Neutral on Pain amp and telekinesis, only possibly for Enhanced senses. Agrees with rest, though suggests an alternative for how Coco Jumbo is handled), Rez (Neutral on telekinesis and Pain amp, agrees with rest), Cloozuma (Disagrees on Pain amp, agrees with rest), Mister6ame6 (Neutral on Pain amp, agrees with rest), Thelastmlg (Neutral on Pain amp, agrees with rest), Korby (Agrees with all), Sir_Ovens (Staff), CrimsonStarFallen, JustSomeWeirdo (Staff)
Disagree:
Neutral:
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