Geralt of Rivia - Possible Speed upgrade

[Vaner77]

Greetings, fellow debaters.

While replaying The Witcher series recently, I've stumbled upon several instances of Geralt supposedly moving and reacting at speed above Transonic. Consider this topic as a supplement for my previous revision thread regarding Geralt.


1. Gameplay mechanic

Starting off with the least credible source. During the games Geralt comes across many oponnents employing lightning based attacks.The most notable examples are:

- Adalbert and Cynthia from quest "Secrets of Loc Muinne" from The Witcher 2. If the player decides to take aggresive approach, he's forced to fight with them both. Adalbert especially has a tendency to shoot lightning bolts.

- Air Elemental from quest "The Last Wish" from The Witcher 3.




I willingly and freely admit that gameplay mechanic is not the most credible source of information. Still, it shouldn't be discarded outright, especially since there are characters on this site credited with lightning fast reflexes, based purely on gameplay .


2. Lightning Reflexes skill

One of the abilities the player can choose is outright named Lightning Reflexes. Whats more, aquiring and developing the abilities actually influences Geralt's perception of time:


The Witcher 3 - Velen Lightning Reflexes Ability Acquired for Harpy ies Combat, Wyvern Mutagen Used


3. Scalling from Letho

Geralt can be comfortably scalled from Letho of Gullet who, according to Journal, has lightning reflexes:

"Displaying immense self-control and lightning reflexes — not to mention a talent for acting — he murdered the king before the witcher's very eyes."

--- The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings, Letho's Journal entry

This is further reinforced by The Witcher Pen&Paper RPG.


When comparing Letho and Geralt's character sheets, Geralt is Letho's superior in all three speed related stats:

- Reflexes (REF)

- Speed (SPD)

- Run


4.The Wraith from the Painting

During Hearts of Stone expansion, Geralt is forced to fight with a creature known as The Wraith from the Painting. The creature's Bestiary entry contains very interesting information:

"Geralt's battle against the wraith proved very difficult, for it was fueled by rage and launched its attacks with heated aggresion. Geralt was forced to move with lightning speed in order to parry its blows, without time to take a breath or launch an attack of his own."

--- The Wraith form the Painting Bestiary entry


5. Eskel describes witchers mutations

At the beginnig of The Witcher Eskel, when asked about witcher mutations, says something very interesting.

"The Grasses affect nervous system, so magic must control the process. The Trial results in lightning fast reflexes, reaction time normal people will never attai."

--- The Witcher

Keep in mind that Eskel refers to standard witchers after standard Trial of the Grasses. Geralt went through additional mutations, both in Kaer Morhen and during Blood and Wine expansion.


6. Geralt dodges Radeyah's lightning after it's been fired.

In the latest issue of The Witcher - Of Flesh and Flame, Geralt is seen dodging a lightning fired by Oferi sorceress Radeyah:


Here


There are also several instances from the books where Geralt and other characters (such as Ciri or Regis) are described as moving with lightning speed, while Yennefer was able to react to Vilgefortz's lightnings. Since however this page refers to Geralt from the games, I won't be adding those quotes.

That's all from me, for now at least. If you found my work entertaining or informative, consider cheking out my previous revision thread regarding Geralt.

Cheers!

 

[KLOL506]

Interesting.

Have you notified Dargoo? He seems to be the Witcher expert around these parts.

 

[KLOL506]

Also, the current Dragon calc for Geralt might get an upgrade. Geralt scales in height to Djikstra, who is noted to be nearly 7 feet tall in the Witcher 3 Wild Hunt Artbook. Even without that, Ciri is noted to be 175 cm, and Geralt is waaaaaay taller than her.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

1.We don't automatically consider any lightning to be the real lightning speed.Also we can't use gameplay mechanics for everything or Geralt would've never been small building in durability since normal humans can damage him.

2.This is good,but can grant only at least transonic and at most baseline supersonic for reflexes.

3.Lightning reflexes can be used to describe something fast.

4.Same as 3.

5.Same as 3.It is true that Geralt from Blood and Wine is stronger than any other version of him.

Likely Supersonic is good for reflexes.

 

[DarkGrath]

This is actually quite an interesting case, in my opinion. Generally "lightning reflexes" is just a term used to describe a character who is really fast, but one important thing to note is that, in such cases, "lightning reflexes" is commonly used interchangably with or outright replaced by other "fast sounding" terms. As shown by these pieces of evidence, Geralt and other characters comparable in speed are compared to lightning very frequently, at least in comparison to most "lightning fast" statements. I'm still neutral on this, but it surely warrants discussion. Are there any other major examples of statements regarding Geralt's speed in the franchise akin to these?

 

[KLOL506]

I'll try to get some scaling images for Ciri and Geralt for the height thing. Playing the game again so it might take some time.

 

[AguilaR101]

"Lightning fast" is almost always used figuratively, not literally and from what I've seen that alone is never enough to warrant an upgrade to MHS+.

 

[DarkGrath]

"Lightning fast" is almost always used figuratively, not literally and from what I've seen that alone is never enough to warrant an upgrade to MHS+.

Well, yeah. I think we're all aware of that. Even so, given both the fact that it is mentioned consistently as a comparison for speed, and the inclusion of such a feat in gameplay, it would seem as though the comparison here is quite explicit and intentional by the devs

Even so, I'm still holding onto my neutral position. The evidence is a bit too frequent to simply ignore, but even so we'd have to rely partially on assumptions about authorial intent to say that it is correct. At best, this seems like it might be reason for Geralt to get a "Possibly MHS+" speed rating.

 

[AguilaR101]

The fact it's said multiplie times doesn't suddendly make those statements anything more than a figure of speech. Possibly MHS+ is completely unsupported by those statements.

If a lightning dodging feat exists you need to prove it's actual lightning and make a calc for characters dodging it.

 

[Vaner77]

1.We don't automatically consider any lightning to be the real lightning speed.Also we can't use gameplay mechanics for everything or Geralt would've never been small building in durability since normal humans can damage him.

Well, when I see a lightning, I treat it as a lightning, unless someone can prove me otherwise. Saying "but it's magic lightning" seems pretty disingenuous. If we approach the subject this way, we would need to revise a fair share of characters (such as mentioned previously Nameless Hero from Gothic series)

We also have characters such as Drizzt Do'Urde, who is listed as High Hypersonic in speed under the assumption that, as a high level Ranger, he has speed comparable to lower level Rangers, when in the novels he's been tagged by people/objects much slower than that. All of this game mechanic wise.

Anyway, the way the magic works in Witcherverse is that a mage harnesses the power of elements (earth, fire, water or air) to fuel their spells. So I think it's reasonable to assume that their lightning's speed should be equal to the one occuring naturally.

The same should apply to air elemental:

"A djinn is a powerful air spirit, a condensation of the power of that element endowed with consciousness and character - the latter usually nasty.

(...)

Fighting a djinn is extraordinarily difficult. They can fling off spells in an instant that the most accomplished human mages could never cast with years of preparation. What's more, by manipulating the element of air they can summon powerful storms, hurricanes, and gales."

--- Djinn Bestiary entry

 

[Vaner77]

Are there any other major examples of statements regarding Geralt's speed in the franchise akin to these?

There is this, but it's from the books:

"The witcher struck with the speed and force of a lightning bolt, extending his arm to its full length and slashing straight ahead."

--- The Last Wish

There are others but this one seems to be the most prominent, since it emphasases both Geralt's speed and strength. A bit too specific to simply ignore in my opinion.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Interesting, in the game Geralt can also dodge Keira's lightning magic

 

[KLOL506]

Nice. Normal electricity is Supersonic so if there's no evidence for Keira's lightning magic being MHS+, we can resort to the electricity calc.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Nice. Normal electricity is Supersonic so if there's no evidence for Keira's lightning magic being MHS+, we can resort to the electricity calc.

Nice!

 

[Vaner77]

Nice. Normal electricity is Supersonic so if there's no evidence for Keira's lightning magic being MHS+, we can resort to the electricity calc.

Nice!

I've found a gif with Geralt dodging the djinn's lightning. Added it to "Game mechanic" section. Make of that what you will.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Nice. Normal electricity is Supersonic so if there's no evidence for Keira's lightning magic being MHS+, we can resort to the electricity calc.

Nice!

I've found a gif with Geralt dodging the djinn's lightning. Added it to "Game mechanic" section. Make of that what you will.

Dijinn's lightning can be massively hypersonic+, but for now I'm confident with Supersonic speed for Geralt.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

So.. what about Supersonic speed for Geralt? Someone agree?

 

[Vaner77]

So.. what about Supersonic speed for Geralt?
Someone agree?

I do, obviously. The entire point of this thread is to elevate Geralt's speed.

 

[GribbleTheTrash]

so what happen to this thread?

 

[Lgamer099_99]

so what happen to this thread?

It's like death.

 

[Vaner77]

so what happen to this thread?

It's like death.

You guys tell me, I'm still rather new here. Do we need permision of one of the mods or something, or can we implement changes ourselves?

Btw. found this in the latest Witcher comic:

 

[Apollodoro055]

Reading books, playing games, reading the comics from Dark Horse Comics, one thing is always quite consistent about Geralt's abilites: insane speed and reflexes*. His strength level is unknown really, but he have officially a certain degree of super strength, but it's still open to interpretation (I personally like to think he's in 10-15 tons range). However his speed and reflexes are quite consistent, his fight against Dettlaff or when he fought a Bruxa and an Alp at the same time in Blood and Wine, confirm he's at least in supersonic level in speed movement and reflexes, most probably his reflexes could be hypersonic..This guy can legitimately defeat speedsters (and the lore is quite clear here), so, at least his reflexes should be hypersonic at least. I would like to suggest to go on the bestiary in Witcher 3 and read what developers wrote about Dettlaff and the fight against Geralt, it's said clearly that Geralt was fast enough to keep up with Dettlaff, and Dettlaff is so fast to generate a sonic boom, clearly faster than a Bruxa or an Alp.

• Actually in books was described to have a superhuman agility too, but not showed in games, maybe due to mechanic limits from CDPR graphic engine, but in books it's said Witchers are the only race to match an Halfling's agility and in one occasion Geralt was described to moves like a Zerrikania Tiger.

 

[Apollodoro055]

It's like death.
You guys tell me, I'm still rather new here. Do we need permision of one of the mods or something, or can we implement changes ourselves?

Btw. found this in the latest Witcher comic:


We can see clearly in this scan Geralt moves FTE to reach the sorceress. I have read that comic, there is also a interesting strength feat of Geralt, strong enough to block a direct attack from a giant monster, a usual feat for a multi tonner character.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

It's like death.
You guys tell me, I'm still rather new here. Do we need permision of one of the mods or something, or can we implement changes ourselves?

Btw. found this in the latest Witcher comic:


We can see clearly in this scan Geralt moves FTE to reach the sorceress. I have read that comic, there is also a interesting strength feat of Geralt, strong enough to block a direct attack from a giant monster, a usual feat for a multi tonner character.

Post the feat if you can.

 

[Apollodoro055]

 

[Apollodoro055]

He have a size that, if compared with some real sea animals, he could easily weight 57-60 tons. If Geralt is sustain one third of his body weight we're talking about something in 15-20 tons range easily.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Seems that Geralt should have a lot of upgrades.

 

[Apollodoro055]

To be completely honest we have to say his strength level is open to interpretation, cause we haven't any parameter to define his strength yet, but IMHO, he could be easily a 10 tonner at least. For what I understood about Geralt, his fighting style is more about his super speed+agility+dexterity+reflexes rather than his raw strength.

Come back to the topic, I'd say, my bet for Geralt is

Speed movement - supersonic, like mach 2
Reflexes - hypersonic, like mach 6

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Even the fact that Geralt Is phisically at the same level of Dettlaff implied that he is really really strong.

Dettlaff is stronger than Garkains (lesser vampires).

You know how strong are Garkains?

"Garkains, like fleders, belong to the class of particularly dangerous vampires whose strength exceeds even that of fiends" -Bestiary

Stronger than Fiends, the same fiends that casually do this:

"one blow from their powerful paws can kill a knight along with it's fully armored mount." -Bestiary

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Btw, normal humans in Witcher have large number of instances of 9-A feats, so the sorceresses should have their 10-A, 9-A with magic changed to outright 9-A. Here's a few:

1. Order of the Flaming Rose knights' main purpose prior to being incorporated into Radovid's army was slaying monsters for free.

2. Fox Hollow peasants slaughter a castle filled with vampires and also cut Regis to pieces. While drunk.

3. Eyck of Denesle kills manticores, cockatrices etc. as a religious duty.

4. Gladitorial bout in Toussaint require you to best and slay a powerful monster.

5. Skelligers regularly slay monsters, only requiring help against those that are overhyped, have esoteric abilities or have dura ignoring abilities.

6. Hjalmar and his friends fended off monsters for days in Undvyk.

7. Some peasant killed Geralt with a pitchfork. Some villagers badly wounded Gaetan.

8. Leo Bonhart killed 3 witchers.

9. Queen Meve and her handful of troops pretty much cleared the treacherous swamp of Ysgith in Angren. They did so by slaying the dreadful Gernichora, Mistress of the Swamp, a monster so powerful, Ivo of Belhaven ran the fk away from it. Ivo is a Bear School Witcher known for their heavy weapons and armour. Gernichora has the ability to summon all the monsters in the swamp to her aid.

10. Odrin kicks out a bunch of Rock Trolls during the Mahakaman Ale Festival.

 

[Apollodoro055]

Even the fact that Geralt Is phisically at the same level of Dettlaff implied that he is really really strong.

Dettlaff is stronger than Garkains (lesser vampires).

You know how strong are Garkains?

"Garkains, like fleders, belong to the class of particularly dangerous vampires whose strength exceeds even that of fiends" -Bestiary

Stronger than Fiends, the same fiends that casually do this:

"one blow from their powerful paws can kill a knight along with it's fully armored mount." -Bestiary

Yes, even a lesser vampire is stronger than a Fiend, so Bruxa, Alp, Katakan are stronger, and Dettlaff is the stronger of them all. The interesting thing is how big Fiends are, just with their size they should be in the multi tonner range, for sure.

In comics Geralt was strong enough to cut off a Fiend's head with a single blow. Fiends are described to be a mountain with muscles, surely their skin is really thick and durable, so, it requires a tremendous strength to decapitate a Fiend's head with a single blow.

 

[Apollodoro055]

Btw, normal humans in Witcher have large number of instances of 9-A feats, so the sorceresses should have their 10-A, 9-A with magic changed to outright 9-A. Here's a few:

1. Order of the Flaming Rose knights' main purpose prior to being incorporated into Radovid's army was slaying monsters for free.

2. Fox Hollow peasants slaughter a castle filled with vampires and also cut Regis to pieces. While drunk.

3. Eyck of Denesle kills manticores, cockatrices etc. as a religious duty.

4. Gladitorial bout in Toussaint require you to best and slay a powerful monster.

5. Skelligers regularly slay monsters, only requiring help against those that are overhyped, have esoteric abilities or have dura ignoring abilities.

6. Hjalmar and his friends fended off monsters for days in Undvyk.

7. Some peasant killed Geralt with a pitchfork. Some villagers badly wounded Gaetan.

8. Leo Bonhart killed 3 witchers.

9. Queen Meve and her handful of troops pretty much cleared the treacherous swamp of Ysgith in Angren. They did so by slaying the dreadful Gernichora, Mistress of the Swamp, a monster so powerful, Ivo of Belhaven ran the fk away from it. Ivo is a Bear School Witcher known for their heavy weapons and armour. Gernichora has the ability to summon all the monsters in the swamp to her aid.

10. Odrin kicks out a bunch of Rock Trolls during the Mahakaman Ale Festival.

This doesn't surprise me, just remember we're talking about a fantasy universe where exist the famous legend heroes, in every folklores, they are described to have accomplished incredibile things, and won legendary battles. Some humans in Witcher universe, which is clearly based on folklore from Celtic mithology, vikings mithology, are super human for real life standards.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

This doesn't surprise me, just remember we're talking about a fantasy universe where exist the famous legend heroes, in every folklores, they are described to have accomplished incredibile things, and won legendary battles. Some humans in Witcher universe, which is clearly based on folklore from Celtic mithology, vikings mithology, are super human for real life standards.

Totally agree with apollodoro.

 

[KLOL506]

I remember Dargoo saying outright that Witcher humans should be flatout 9-A and that they only lose because Geralt has more combat skill.

 

[Vaner77]

Btw, normal humans in Witcher have large number of instances of 9-A feats, so the sorceresses should have their 10-A, 9-A with magic changed to outright 9-A. Here's a few:
2. Fox Hollow peasants slaughter a castle filled with vampires and also cut Regis to pieces. While drunk.

8. Leo Bonhart killed 3 witchers.

10. Odrin kicks out a bunch of Rock Trolls during the Mahakaman Ale Festival.

1. The Fox Hollows example comes from GWENT, which is hardly a credible source. Plus, it heavily contradicts the books.

2. Only according to Bonhart himself. We don't know if he killed them in actual combat (as pointed out by Yen). In fact, we don't even know for sure if he killed them at all.

3. Where does the last one come from?

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Gwent is extended canon. The Regis story was retconned. The games don't strictly follow the books.

Odrin feat is from Gwent.

There's also Yarpen Zigrin and 6 dwarves slaying Ocvist the Dragon which is 100% canon to both games and books. Eyck has slain dragons too.

 

[Apollodoro055]

Bonhart was killed by Ciri, she wasn't even close to a Witcher skills, let alone Geralt. In a fair fight probably a legendary Knight/warrior could have chance to defeat Geralt, in books was always stressed as no human warrior is able enough to defeat him, he actually fought against multiple highly skilled warriors at the same time, defeated them without any issue.

 

[Apollodoro055]

I remember Dargoo saying outright that Witcher humans should be flatout 9-A and that they only lose because Geralt has more combat skill.

According with lore, he's right. In Season of Storm it's said a Witcher is 10 times faster than a human, an insane physical advantage in combat. Even if a human warrior could, for example, reach the same skill in combat of a Witcher, and even if a Witcher won't use his Signs (a single hit with AARD can be lethal even for an armored soldier), the human warrior would still be too slow to fight him properly. Geralt is even more powerful than every other Witcher. It's right to say that a human in Witcher universe can be a lot faster and stronger than a real life human, as I said, this is the universe where exist the famous legendary celtic and vikings warriors,usually they are described to have the strength of a wild bear, according with mithology, very similar to someone like Conan the Barbarian. There are dwarfs, stronger than any humans, and a Witcher is stronger than them, then there are Halflings, with superhuman agility, and Witchers is the only race agile as them, then there are Elves, faster than a human, and Witchers are faster than them.

 

[Apollodoro055]

Using some analogies, Geralt should be like:

Same speed and reflexes of Spider-Man, maybe same agility too, same Wolverine's super senses but with night vision and a sixth sense that remember the Spidey's sense. Same Deathstroke's healing factor and durability. Uncertain his strength level, but the composite Geralt I'm quite sure is stronger then book Geralt, at least a 5 tonner IMHO.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Geralt is for sure superhuman in strenght. There a lot of confirmations in lore. [1] [2][3]

And Apollodoro posted a good feat for Geralt. Maybe someone can calc this feat...