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Geralt of Rivia - Possible Speed upgrade

I liked that feat for a really simple logic: according with the monster's size, that thing could be wheight 60 or more tons easily. Geralt was able to restrain a direct attack from that thing, for a couple of seconds, in the next page the sorceress will cast a spell against the monster, and Geralt go away, drink a no specified potion, then come back and kill the monster. Even if Geralt restrained just 1/4 of monster's weight, it's still a legit 10+ tonner feat. Obviously he couldn't restrain for a longer time the monster, Geralt is not a 50+ tonner, it would be ridiculous. If he was just a peak human or a 3-5 tonner he would have been smashed immediately by the monster's weight. Extremely elementar logic.
 
In our site, tonnes is not a weight type unit. Its an energy equivalent for the amount of energy released by that weight amount of tnt.
 
Apollodoro055, Lgamer099 99

Guys, while I'm glad that the thread is alive again, I would ask you to focus on speed. If you want to make a case for Geralt's strength upgrade (which he should totally get btw.), either make a separate thread or post it in in my previous thread regarding Geralt's general revision.

Apollodoro055, could you post the quote from Season of Storms? I don't beleive I've seen it.

Also, regarding speed of humans in Witcherverse:

'I really don't knowhow it was that they didn't kill each other at that first meeting. They certainly wanted to kill, you could tell. She, he, both of them. They pounced on each other and crossed swords. They might have exchanged two or three blows every instant. There was nobody who could count them by eye nor ear. They struck so fast, my lord, that it was indistinguishable. And they danced and jumped around each other like two weasels!"

--- The Tower of Swallow

This is the level of speed displayed by Ciri (in her teenage years) and Bonhart (an old man). The same Ciri was able to deflect crossbow bolt with her sword, but Scoiatel elves were moving like a blur to her.
 
Vaner77 said:
Apollodoro055, Lgamer099 99
Guys, while I'm glad that the thread is alive again, I would ask you to focus on speed. If you want to make a case for Geralt's strength upgrade (which he should totally get btw.), either make a separate thread or post it in in my previous thread regarding Geralt's general revision.

Apollodoro055, could you post the quote from Season of Storms? I don't beleive I've seen it.

Also, regarding speed of humans in Witcherverse:

'I really don't knowhow it was that they didn't kill each other at that first meeting. They certainly wanted to kill, you could tell. She, he, both of them. They pounced on each other and crossed swords. They might have exchanged two or three blows every instant. There was nobody who could count them by eye nor ear. They struck so fast, my lord, that it was indistinguishable. And they danced and jumped around each other like two weasels!"

--- The Tower of Swallow

This is the level of speed displayed by Ciri (in her teenage years) and Bonhart (an old man). The same Ciri was able to deflect crossbow bolt with her sword, but Scoiatel elves were moving like a blur to her.
Click to expand...
You're right man, sorry for that.

Talking about speed, you know, supersonic speed for Geralt seems more than legit.
 
In Witcher 1, The Professor kills Leo the Witcher with a crossbow bolt. However, when Geralt meets him afterwards, he dodges it effortlessly.
 
You're right, I'm sorry, we can't talk about his strength here. So, the fight between Ciri and Bonhart described essentially two humans, neither of them genetically enhanced in a alchemist lab, obviously. So, Ciri and Bonhart are essentially two peak human in their universe. Sapkowski described them to move FTE, with amazing agility (the analogy with weasels is quite clear). Elves are superhuman fast according with the lore, Ciri couldn't see them, but a Witcher can.
 
You're right man, sorry for that.

Talking about speed, you know, supersonic speed for Geralt seems more than legit.

I was completely sure, after I saw the fight between Geralt and Dettlaff, that Geralt must be a supersonic in movement speed with even better reflexes, Dettlaff was essentially a low level speedster, moving so fast that he looked like he used a teleportation power rather than his speed, and according with his bestiary, Geralt was fast enough to keep up (barely) with his speed. Not doubt Dettlaff was the faster among vampires, more than Bruxas, Alps and Katakans, second only to Elders. According with Blood and Wine, Geralt can defeat a Bruxa and an Alp at once, both can moves super fast. I have to be honest, I have hard time to imagine Wolverine or Deathstroke or even a street top tier level as Spider-Man to defeat Dettlaff or keep up with his speed.
 
About the statement that a Witcher is 10 time faster than a human in Season of Storm, it was said by Dandelion, page 127, but I'm reading the book in my native language not in english :/ Well, if a human in Witcher universe can be reach an amazing speed, like Ciri in her teenager years and Bonhart, neither of them a Witcher, this statement is quite insane. I'm not surprised tho, I remember Geralt dodged for some hours a Striga, famous for her speed and agility. A Striga in the lore is described to be much faster (and stronger) than a Werewolf, and a Werewolf is described to be, I'm quoting literally here, "supernaturally fast".
 
1-5 honestly don't have any place being used for scaling to the actual speed of lightning. "Lightning fast", "Lightning speed", "Lightning reflexes" is one of the most common hyperbole/tropes when it comes to fiction; and in of itself is no real justification for a speed upgrade. Thus, I'll just ignore them and go straight to 6.

We don't consider every use of lightning, especially magical lightning that doesn't obey any of the other conventions that lightning follows, as the speed of a RL cloud-to-earth bolt. Instead for electrical attacks we use a more general speed of electricity in air, which is much, much slower.

I will note that the magical blast in that comic only vaguely looks like electricity, and could just as easily be interpreted as a generic magical blast of energy or even fire.
 
I noted that so I suggested to go with just electricity's speed for Keira's electric attacks.
 
Geralt react to magic spells, even in books, a magic spell is a generic energy attack, we can use the electricity speed for that, which means his reflexes must be massively hypersonic. For his speed, anything from transonic to supersonic can be reasonable.
 
Apollodoro055 said:
a magic spell is a generic energy attack, we can use the electricity speed for that, which means his reflexes must be massively hypersonic
Click to expand...
That's for dodging something actually as fast as lightning itself, which we wouldn't assume a generic energy attack would move at.
 
We perfectly know mages in Witcher universe are fueled with the elemental powers, when they cast a spell, like a lighting bolt or a fire ball or a energy attack, it should move fast like electricity. So, those spells must be really fast, impossible to dodge by a man, that's what Yennefer said when Geralt deviated a spell casted by her, at really close range, and she said that it was too fast to dodge, noticing that Geralt wasn't a normal human. That happening during their first meet, later, they even fought, and Geralt during that fight, continued to deviate every spell attack casted by Yennefer, described like fire darts or something, he wasn't hit even once.
 
Apollodoro055 said:
We perfectly know mages in Witcher universe are fueled with the elemental powers, when they cast a spell, like a lighting bolt or a fire ball or a energy attack, it should move fast like electricity
Click to expand...
Yes - but fast like electricity and fast like lightning can be two seperate things, even if that is true.

Although I don't see why we'd say that for fireballs/generic energy blasts; that's like saying an a solar-powered car should move at the speed of light because it's powered by light.
 
We can be sure that Geralt reacted to spells made by electricity, that's makes him supersonic in speed ad at least massively supersonic in reflexes if not hypersonic.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Why would dodging something moving in the subsonic range make him supersonic?
Click to expand...
Dodging is a reflexes feat, yes, but fighting an higher vampire is not supersonic enough? In the database is plenty of characters identified as supersonic although they never fought a character fast as an higher vampire, and they are supersonic because they "react to bullets". Mach 1.6, is supersonic not subsonic....

Subsonic - mach < 1 Transonic - mach < 1.2 Sonic - mach 1 Supersonic mach > 1

Mach 1.6/2.0 = supersonic
 
Bullet timer or casual bullet timer characters are often identified as supersonic.

Bullets speed

.25 ACP: 250 m/s 7.65 mm browning: 300m/s 9mm parabellum: 340 m/s .45 ACP: 340m/s .40 S&W: 350m/s .357 magnum: 420m/s .500 S&W: 500m/s

556 m/s = 2000 km/h = mach 1.6. Yep, Geralt is definitely supersonic.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
1-5 honestly don't have any place being used for scaling to the actual speed of lightning. "Lightning fast", "Lightning speed", "Lightning reflexes" is one of the most common hyperbole/tropes when it comes to fiction; and in of itself is no real justification for a speed upgrade. Thus, I'll just ignore them and go straight to 6.
We don't consider every use of lightning, especially magical lightning that doesn't obey any of the other conventions that lightning follows, as the speed of a RL cloud-to-earth bolt. Instead for electrical attacks we use a more general speed of electricity in air, which is much, much slower.

I will note that the magical blast in that comic only vaguely looks like electricity, and could just as easily be interpreted as a generic magical blast of energy or even fire.
Click to expand...
Is there a reason you decided to ignore the gif of Geralt dodging the djin's lightning? The Witcher 3 Complete Edition Prima Official Guide outright calls it a lightning.

Considering that Geralt was amnesiac at the start of The Witcher, it's reasonable to assume that Eskel would try to give him as much (and as accurate) information as possible. Treating this particualr instance as a figure of speach is illogical.

No, that's not fire blast. First of all, since when fire travel like this:

7037139-witcher - of flesh and flame 003-011


Also, the comic makes clear distinction between blasts employed by Radeyah and Geralt's Igni (a fire-based spell):

RCO015 1554339753
 
Yup, it's clear that spell is like an energy blast, it should be fast as a lightning, it's the same spell Geralt dodged at close range later in the comic.
 
Yeah, I made that gif and wanted to add it to the OP, but some sort of error occured and I wasn't able to.
 
Vaner77 said:
. Is there a reason you decided to ignore the gif of Geralt dodging the djin's lightning? The Witcher 3 Complete Edition Prima Official Guide outright calls it a lightning.
Click to expand...
You called it your "least credible source", and the fact that it isn't coming from any (above ground) cloud or has any indication of moving at the speeds of RL lightning.

Vaner77 said:
Treating this particualr instance as a figure of speach is illogical.
Click to expand...
Phrasing and context. If he wanted to clearly express that the reflexes were fast enough to keep up with actual lightning, he would have used "reflexes that can react to lightning itself" or something that makes reference to the speed of a non-fantastical bolt.

"Lightning-fast reflexes", in that context, is far more likely just references "above-human/above-average reflexes", which is already covered in his other feats, so no.

Vaner77 said:
No, that's not fire blast. First of all, since when fire travel like this
Click to expand...
It's great my first assumption of it wasn't that it was fire, then.

"could just as easily be interpreted as a generic magical blast of energy or even fire."

Still doesn't meet our lightning standards.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Vaner77 said:
. Is there a reason you decided to ignore the gif of Geralt dodging the djin's lightning? The Witcher 3 Complete Edition Prima Official Guide outright calls it a lightning.
Click to expand...
You called it your "least credible source", and the fact that it isn't coming from any (above ground) cloud or has any indication of moving at the speeds of RL lightning.


Vaner77 said:
Treating this particualr instance as a figure of speach is illogical.
Click to expand...
Phrasing and context. If he wanted to clearly express that the reflexes were fast enough to keep up with actual lightning, he would have used "reflexes that can react to lightning itself" or something that makes reference to the speed of a non-fantastical bolt.
"Lightning-fast reflexes", in that context, is far more likely just references "above-human/above-average reflexes", which is already covered in his other feats, so no.


Vaner77 said:
No, that's not fire blast. First of all, since when fire travel like this
Click to expand...
It's great my first assumption of it wasn't that it was fire, then.
"could just as easily be interpreted as a generic magical blast of energy or even fire."

Still doesn't meet our lightning standards.
Click to expand...
Yes, in my opinio gameplay mechanic is the least credible source material. Nevertheless, VS Battles Wiki apparently has no issue using it, as evidenced by the profiles of characters such as Nameless Hero, Drizzt Do'Urde, and even Dovahkii (see his Mid Game speed). That's the reason why I included game mechanic stuff in the first place.

As for the djinn's lightning:

"A djinn is a powerful air spirit, a condensation of the power of that element endowed with consciousness and character - the latter usually nasty."

Pretty self-explenatory. A force of nature given "consciousness and character".


"The Grasses affect nervous system, so magic must control the process. The Trial results in lightning fast reflexes, reaction time normal people will never attai."

If all that Eskel wanted to communicate was that witcher's reaction time is above that of normal human, he would've limited his speach to the bolded part.

I mean, let's apply some good, old-fashioned logic: Geralt is about to embark on a dangerous journey while suffering from amnesia and lacking most of his abilites. He asks Eskel, his closest friend and a fellow witcher, about the effects of the Trial of the Grasses. Should we assume that Eskel used the phrase "lightning-fast reflexes" for a "wow" effect and as a deliberate attempt to misinform Geralt? Or should we assume that he actually knows what he's talking about and provided his amensiac friend with accurate info?


It's also great that the comic makes a clear distinction between Radeyah's lightning and her energy blasts as well:

RCO010 1551229908
Fun fact: Yennefer from the books was able to react to lightnings conjured by Vilgefortz. Radeyah was apparently able to held her own against Yen in a duel. In the previous scan Geralt was not only able to dodge Radeyah's lightning, but he procceded to basicaly blitz her as well.
 
Vaner77 said:
That's the reason why I included game mechanic stuff in the first place.
Click to expand...
It being a game mechanic doesn't handwave what we require to be proven of lightning feats. I can't speak for any verse but the Witcher and our standards for feats on this thread; we shouldn't have to discuss Skyrim to discuss the Witcher.

Vaner77 said:
"A djinn is a powerful air spirit, a condensation of the power of that element endowed with consciousness and character - the latter usually nasty."

Pretty self-explanatory. A force of nature given "consciousness and character".
Click to expand...
I see no reason how or why that relates to the speed of lightning.

Not all electricity (even lightning itself, but that's for another thread) moves at the speed of lightning, it varies significantly based on the state of the environment around it.

Vaner77 said:
Should we assume that Eskel used the phrase "lightning-fast reflexes" for a "wow" effect and as a deliberate attempt to misinform Geralt? Or should we assume that he actually knows what he's talking about and provided his amensiac friend with accurate info?
Click to expand...
We can assume that Geralt, still retaining his understanding of the English language, knows what a metaphor is.

Even when trying to be informative, language doesn't have to be strictly literal. In fact, that can make it even harder to convey ideas.

Basic logic determines in that the absense of concrete evidence, we must take the least outrageous assumptions possible. Either Witchers have a speed we have never seen demonstrated throughout the entire series, or Eskel was trying to convey an idea through a *very* commonly used metaphor.

Vaner77 said:
It's also great that the comic makes a clear distinction between Radeyah's lightning and her energy blasts as well:

Fun fact: Yennefer from the books was able to react to lightnings conjured by Vilgefortz. Radeyah was apparently able to held her own against Yen in a duel. In the previous scan Geralt was not only able to dodge Radeyah's lightning, but he procceded to basicaly blitz her as well.
Click to expand...
You... still have to prove that those spells move at the speed of natural lightning.

Again, electricity's speed varies like crazy. We can't assume everything that looks electrical or is called 'lightning' having a constant speed, otherwise we're ignoring basic physics.
 
This topic is going nowhere, everyone have his opinion, no one can prove if his theory is right or not. I'm just sure Geralt is supersonic in reflexes and movements in combat, according with his fight against Dettlaff. So, at least he should be updated from "transonic" to supersonic. Geralt can reacts to electricity, at least 556 m/s, so mach 1.6. Can fight against Dettlaff, he can create mach cones and sonic boom, a mach cone or a sonic boom is possibile just when an object is above the sonic speed.
 
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