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General revisions Flash season 5

Andytrenom

Andytrenom

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Hi, so I recently started catching up with the Flash. I am up to episode 11 now (haven't watched Elseworld though) and decided to make a general revision thread.

Currently there are two maybe three two topics I want to talk about but I will bring up more things when I make my way further through the season.

DeVoe powers

It is revealed in episode 6 Icicle Cometh that DeVoe didn't use melting pot's power on Caitlyn but rather Dominic's, which suppressed the Killer Frost persona but didn't remove any powers of Caitlyn. He would lose Ice and weather manipulation but keep ice resistance due to having his own feats

Cicada durability

In episode 11 Seeing red Cicada took hits from a serious Barry Allen. While he wasn't faring all that well, he was still conscious and able to retreat after this. This would put Cicada's durability at Small city level.

On a side note "unknown with his powers" should be removed. He defeated meta humans by taking away their powers. That doesn't warrant a separate rating

Cicada's dagger

This isn't a revision but just something I'm curious about. In episode 8 Cicada was able to retrieve his dagger from space in a short period of time. Could this be calced? If it can how would it apply to the characters scaling wise?
 
It took approximately 9 seconds from entering the atmosphere (I assume that's what's happening when the dagger showed up on the screen of Team Flash). Assuming at least 10 000 km, which is the upper bound of Earth's atmosphere, that's 1 111 111.11 m/s, or Mach 3265.19, Massively Hypersonic+.

One could get higher results by finding the actual position of the dagger with curvature angsizing.
 
I agree with these revisions as well.

According to this, even an average knife can be around 0.5 kg. (0.5)(0.5)(1111111.11^2) = 73.7672023641 Tons of TNT, or City Block level+. Not high, but it's pretty good.

I tried angular size, and it's not worth it.
 
Minor new addition. Flash and other speedsters should have extrasensory perception because, as explained by Barry and Thawne, they can sense when another speedster enters the speedforce.
 
Can they scale to Firestorm? The Jefferson version has tanked nukes and compared his normal fire blasts to nuclear explosions so he could have a case for being 7-C normally

Apart from that there is Nora causing an earthquake, Flash lightning being confirmed to be 8 billion joules, Earth 2 Frost freezing that cliffside and Zoom melting a message into that large building (Might not be worth calcing though)
 
Firestorm would probably scale to Reverse Flash and end of Season 1 Barry, as the former withstood his blasts in Season 1, Episode 9, and fodderized him along with the Flash and Green Arrow. Before that, there wasn't many feats to scale the two.
 
Reverse Flash does make sense but I'm not sure about end of season 1 Barry. He was still getting his ass kicked by the former even in the season finale.
 
Barry was able to put up a better fight, and he actually stomped a Reverse Flash time remnant in early season 2, where he was virtually the same speed, if not a smidgen faster.
 
That's true, but it's he's still similar in speed, as he was roughtly comparable to Barry in speed and heavily outran him in short bursts. He's also not much younger and shouldn't be significantly weaker.
 
Wells Flash was also boosted by his chair so the remnant from season 2 being comparable is still questionable even if the age difference isn't much.
 
The Reverse Flash had a broken connection to the Speed Force, however, only being able to use it in short bursts without a tachyon amp, and they were portrayed as similar in power.
 
I meant to say they weren't portrayed as having any disparity in power.
 
I don't think that's how scaling works. If it's not a guarantee that two characters or two versions of the same character are similar in power you can't scale them on the basis that a disparity between them hasn't been explicitly shown.
 
I looked on his page. Apparently we rate this one higher, or it could be another version. I'm kind of confused as to the events of the Reverse Flash who used the speed force as a "bombshelter".
 
I don't think we do, the likely higher is also about the Wells impersonating Reverse Flash.
 
Also, did we ever get the Satellite feat from the season 4 finale calced? Might give decent results.
 
I don't think it has. I'll try a calc now.

A mere communications satellite is apparently 6 tons on average. And, according to Cisco it's mass was increased 1000-fold ("Clifford must've increased its mass by a thousand-fold"). You might be tempted to say this is a hyperbole, but Clifford did increase the mass of Barry (who weighs 75 kg) to that of a cement truck (which weigh 9,070 to 13,600 kg while empty) without even exerting himself, but I'll do the calc with and without this value.

6 tons = 5443.108 kg

Barry overpowered a small portion however, but I'll low-ball this to 1/10th

(0.5)(544.3108)(55000^2) = 823270085000 J, or 196.766272706 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block level)

(0.5)(544310.8)(55000^2) = 8.2327009e+14 J, or 196766.272706 Tons of TNT (Large Town level)

I'm not dividing this by 2 because it's stated that Nora's intervention was what changed the timeline from its original state where David Hersch was Cicada, meaning Barry did this on his own previously.
 
The high end definitely seems more accurate to me considering how much of a threat the satellite was being treated as.
 
About the Firestorm thing

The Jefferson version has tanked nukes and compared his normal fire blasts to nuclear explosions so he could have a case for being 7-C normally

The statement was "Well I hit him with a nuclear blast so not that earthly" in response to Hawkman saying Savage can't be defeated by earthly means. I initially interpreted this statement as Firestorm's attacks being as powerful as a nuclear explosion but in context it is as simple as Jackson pointing out that his superpowers aren't like any normal means of attacking Savage. It doesn't seem to be an actual 7-C statement

The feat of withstanding a nuke seems good at a glance but I do see some things that may be a problem. Main thing is that Firestorm was absorbing the nuke, both the radiation as well as the fireball and I don't know what that means for the overall impressiveness of this feat (in terms of durability). This was also an onscreen feat which would usually call for a calc rather than using an average; but there's also the possibility that the explosion didn't expand completely before being absorbed by Storm so it's a matter of if we want to lowball the feat to what was shown or assume it was an typical 7-C explosion that was cut off halfway.
 
There's one episode of Legends where he absorbs a 1 megaton nuke.
 
Was it stated to be 1 Megaton? And is that a different feat from what I'm talking about?
 
Vandal Savage: "This is a variable yield nuclear warhead. Capable of producing a blast equivalent to 1 Megaton of TNT." - Season 1, Episode 1: Pilot, Part 2. Also, this is the feat I'm talking about.

Everything I've found tells me that 11.2 km/s is escape velocity and the average meteor and comet speed, and 7.8 km/s is reentry velocity.
 
Yeah I think that's what I'm talking about as well.

So the nuke is low 7-B, but the question remains if this is Firestorm having all around small city level durability or if his ability to absorb nuclear explosions made the explosion easier to deal with. Characters like Feedback for example don't get straight up low 2-C durability, he only has it against energy based attacks which he can absorb.
 
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