Garou resistance to matter manip/deconstruction

[ZillertheBucko]

simple quick crt
Garou was able to tank being in the middle of his own nuclear fission attacks which use atomic matter manip, as well as the gamma ray burst's black hole
the changes would also apply to saitama of course

5 Agree

 

[Kachon123]

I obviously agree.

 

[Alexander]

also,you need to put sound resistence in their,because,you now how loud a nuke is?literraly,is so loud,that you will die,only for the sound(more if you consider that literraly,garou can make it the size of jupiter)

 

[Theglassman12]

Why would this be deconstruction? At best this is matter manipulation and radiation. Nothing about this implies any hax of breaking someone apart a la Thanos' snap.

 

[Kachon123]

Why would this be deconstruction? At best this is matter manipulation and radiation. Nothing about this implies any hax of breaking someone apart a la Thanos' snap.

He was in the middle of a black hole for an extended period of time.

 

[azontr]

Why would this be deconstruction? At best this is matter manipulation and radiation. Nothing about this implies any hax of breaking someone apart a la Thanos' snap.

It's matter deconstruction, not like, turning shit to dust like Thanos.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Why would this be deconstruction? At best this is matter manipulation and radiation. Nothing about this implies any hax of breaking someone apart a la Thanos' snap.

From what I understand, deconstruction is sometimes represented as just matter manipulation used offensively, no? When Garou's attacking on an atomic level and they're both tanking it then it would be resisting matter manip.

 

[Phoenks]

Can we give Garou deconstruction due to Gamma Ray Bursts being capable of destroying molecules?

 

[Cryo123]

I agree.

 

[Alexander]

Can we give Garou deconstruction due to Gamma Ray Bursts being capable of destroying molecules?

Yes

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Can we give Garou deconstruction due to Gamma Ray Bursts being capable of destroying molecules?

oh yeah, that should probably be there so saitama actually gets the res
should I add that to the OP

 

[Apeironaxim]

I'm not seeing why causing nuclear fission to happen around/in front of your fist through hax means you resist the process by which it was caused, in this case matter manip.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I'm not seeing why causing nuclear fission to happen around/in front of your fist through hax means you resist the process by which it was caused, in this case matter manip.

because nuclear energy is capable of atomic level deconstruction to those effected by it, and they both were at the epicenter of strong nuclear fission attacks
this is even more so true for black holes and garou's Gamme Ray Burst

 

[Apeironaxim]

because nuclear energy is capable of atomic level deconstruction to those effected by it, and they both were at the epicenter of strong nuclear fission attacks
this is even more so true for black holes and garou's Gamme Ray Burst

radiation can do that over time and in enough quantities sure, but the epicenter of a nuke doesn't just instantly deconstruction hax the area.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

radiation can do that over time and in enough quantities sure, but the center of a nuke doesn't just instantly deconstruction hax the area.

I don't see how the epicenter of several nukes isn't enough quantity??? That, layered on top of the insanely intense passive radiation saitama would have dealt with due to being within melee range, while zombieman and the S class get folded from a football field far away, and of course Garou himself being the source of it gives him auto resistance
and also, the black hole

 

[LordGinSama]

It's matter deconstruction, not like, turning shit to dust like Thanos.

Uhhh no.


At best this would be very limited Deconstruction via Radiation Manipulation. Radiation doesn't destroy nor deconstruct matter, rather it weakens molecular / atomic bonds.


And Black-Hole's don't deconstruct matter, they simply compress matter.



At best this is a resistance towards Radiation Manipulation which he already has.



Don't Talk clapped me on a similar topic so if yall wanna get clapped too I'm more than fine with calling Don'tTalk here.

 

[azontr]

Uhhh no.


At best this would be very limited Deconstruction via Radiation Manipulation. Radiation doesn't destroy nor deconstruct matter, rather it weakens molecular / atomic bonds.


And Black-Hole's don't deconstruct matter, they simply compress matter.



At best this is a resistance towards Radiation Manipulation which he already has.

The more you know, I guess.

 

[LordGinSama]

Radiation doesn't destroy matter, it halts the process of mitosis.

That's always an aspect of Radiation Manipulation, so I feel like this is just to try to extrapolate Garou's P&A section. He already has matter Manipulation, Deconstruction is a no no.

 

[azontr]

In my defense, I did not know that nukes and black holes didn't deconstruct matter.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Uhhh no.


At best this would be very limited Deconstruction via Radiation Manipulation. Radiation doesn't destroy nor deconstruct matter, rather it weakens molecular / atomic bonds.


And Black-Hole's don't deconstruct matter, they simply compress matter.



At best this is a resistance towards Radiation Manipulation which he already has.



Don't Talk clapped me on a similar topic so if yall wanna get clapped too I'm more than fine with calling Don'tTalk here.

Further in the tidal forces will become stronger than the four fundamental forces, which means that atoms will be disintegrated to the point that only elementary particles remain, without a special structure. In vs-battles terms that means they get disintegrated on quantum level.
so yes, black holes rip shit apart on an atomic level, according to the wiki itself. So...

 

[ZillertheBucko]

At best this would be very limited Deconstruction via Radiation Manipulation. Radiation doesn't destroy nor deconstruct matter, rather it weakens molecular / atomic bonds.

Also, garou's radiation is more than capable of ionization, which is sub-atomic deconstruction

 

[Cryo123]

That ignores that a GRB does actually break down and alter chemical bonds.

 

[Tatsumi504]

You're basically saying he should resist "Shiba tatsuya" level deconstruction for resisting radiation? Disagree

 

[Sigilavox]

From the deconstruction wiki page:

Note: Natural side effects from powers, such as Energy Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Vibration Manipulation, and other abilities that can produce enough energy output to destroy or dismantle objects, do not mean that characters automatically qualify for this ability, unless the abilities in question specifically and directly focus on deconstruction in itself, rather than as a consequence.

Garou's GRB "molecule deconstruction" is a side effect of the energetic output of the phenomenon, not a specific ability of Garou in this case.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

From the deconstruction wiki page:

Garou's GRB "molecule deconstruction" is a side effect of the energetic output of the phenomenon, not a specific ability of Garou in this case.

uh, hate to break it to you but
that's kinda how deconstruction works? Being able to resist something that targets subatomic particles is quite blatantly resisting deconstruction. That's...the ability......

 

[ZillertheBucko]

"Shiva tatsuya"

I have no idea what that is
and can you give your reasoning

 

[Apeironaxim]

uh, hate to break it to you but
that's kinda how deconstruction works? Being able to resist something that targets subatomic particles is quite blatantly resisting deconstruction. That's...the ability......

and the wiki, which you used for your own point earlier, seems to say that things done as a natural consequence of an ability like fire or radiation don't give the individual abilities such as deconstruction, as again, it's just how fire/radiation/whatever else does as a consequence of what it is

 

[ZillertheBucko]

and the wiki, which you used for your own point earlier, seems to say that things done as a natural consequence of an ability like fire or radiation don't give the individual abilities such as deconstruction, as again, it's just how fire/radiation/whatever else does as a consequence of what it is

I'm no nuclear physicist but I'm fairly certain that deconstruction causes fires, not the other way around
like how black holes cause deconstruction, but I'm fairly certain no high school chemistry classes have ever created a black hole

 

[LordGinSama]

The wiki itself is based upon real life physics, Black-holes don't destroy nor rip apart matter, it compresses them.


**** it I'll just call DT

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Why would Garou resist his own abilities?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Why would Garou resist his own abilities?

Because he’s caught right in the middle of them, not only is this visually shown but this is also the basis we use to scale AP to the dura of most characters
if you made a black hole with your hands then chances are without resisting it you will die instantly

 

[Sigilavox]

that's kinda how deconstruction works? Being able to resist something that targets subatomic particles is quite blatantly resisting deconstruction. That's...the ability......

I'd like a source for GRBs specifically targeting and dismantling subatomic particles. In any case, all explosions emit EM radiation (which can be argued to be subatomic) via light at the subatomic scale. UV light (also subatomic radiation) can deconstruct ozone and oxygen molecules. GRBs are just huge explosions that emit a ton of high-energy EM radiation (gamma rays). Nothing suggests the specific ability to deconstruct in there, let alone resistance to it, unless we're calling any super huge explosion deconstruction.

It's pretty clear from the basic examples given that the wiki wants deconstruction to be limited to abilities specifically designed to dissolve things, not abilities that cause things to break down as a side product of how much energy there is being crammed in there.

 

[Tatsumi504]

I have no idea what that is
and can you give your reasoning

He's basically the king when it comes to deconstruction.
You're trying to give garou resistance to the level of deconstruction that basically deletes your body structure which is why I disagree

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I'd like a source for GRBs specifically targeting and dismantling subatomic particles. In any case, all explosions emit EM radiation (which can be argued to be subatomic) via light at the subatomic scale. UV light (also subatomic radiation) can deconstruct ozone and oxygen molecules. GRBs are just huge explosions that emit a ton of high-energy EM radiation (gamma rays). Nothing suggests the specific ability to deconstruct in there, let alone resistance to it, unless we're calling any super huge explosion deconstruction.

It seems you misunderstood me
I was referring to the black hole created instantly by the gamma ray burst, not the grb itself
and as for black holes, the wiki directly confirms that they're capable of sub atomic destruction
and while the note does say that energy manipulation and such things don't qualify, that's because that dismantling and destroying things is on a far larger scale, while sub-atomic particles are not destroyed by such forces
in contrast, the black hole feats page directly acknowledges that black holes would tear things apart at a quantum level, which would mean that deconstruction wouldn't be able to negate durability against Garou and Saitama, thus justifying the resistance

He's basically the king when it comes to deconstruction.
You're trying to give garou resistance to the level of deconstruction that basically deletes your body structure which is why I disagree

this comment is just useless
obviously not all resistance is built the same so that doesn't imply that at all, characters can sometimes still hax characters who have resistance to their hax
also it would just be stupid to say "well I disagree because that would mean they beat my favorite character!!!!" like no, at the very least put your argument into actual words like Sigilavox did, instead of just saying a complete non argument

 

[Tatsumi504]

this comment is just useless
obviously not all resistance is built the same so that doesn't imply that at all, characters can sometimes still hax characters who have resistance to their hax
also it would just be stupid to say "well I disagree because that would mean they beat my favorite character!!!!" like no, at the very least put your argument into actual words like Sigilavox did, instead of just saying a complete non argument

This has nothing to do with my favorite character or not.You're trying to say garou. Would resist this based off of resisting radiation

 

[Tatsumi504]

The deconstruction is just a side effect of his attacks and doesn't really aim for deconstruction and like is noted on the wiki shouldn't count

 

[ZillertheBucko]

This has nothing to do with my favorite character or not.You're trying to say garou. Would resist this based off of resisting radiation

well maybe he can resist it dude, why the hell is this your justification for disagreeing???
"garou can't resist this deconstruction which proves he can't resist deconstruction!" are you kidding me?
also that looks kinda more like transmutation but whatever

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The deconstruction is just a side effect of his attacks and doesn't really aim for deconstruction and like is noted on the wiki shouldn't count

to quote the exact note
"Natural side effects from powers, such as Energy Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Vibration Manipulation, and other abilities that can produce enough energy output to destroy or dismantle objects, do not mean that characters automatically qualify for this ability, unless the abilities in question specifically and directly focus on deconstruction in itself, rather than as a consequence."
notice how none of these things effect subatomic particles. it's saying that unless they're specifically stated to split apart at that level then it can't automatically qualify, as in a person being blown up into mincemeat isn't deconstruction, unless it's an explosion that targets atoms or some shit and deconstructs them on a smaller level that they have no dura against
on the contrary, surviving a black hole automatically means that you have durabillity on that smaller level, which is what gives you resistance to it
while resisting typical deconstruction would probably not be able to protect from someone applying tier 0 force to shred every atom in your body: it will still be resistance nonetheless

the best analogy I can come up with is being unable to break down a sturdy castle of legos with your bare hands, but then picking each lego off individually until there's nothing left of it. Whilst technically with enough force you could just break it down and likely deattach some bricks from the force of it, if they're superglued together then that would mean the method of picking them apart wouldn't work
that's deconstruction resistance, explained to the best of my ability and going off what the wiki says

 

[Tatsumi504]

garou can't resist this deconstruction which proves he can't resist deconstruction!" are you kidding me?

Once again this has nothing to do with my argument. Stop bringing it up as a point as a way to dismiss my actual point. I know there are varying levels of deconstruction, I'm saying you're trying to give him resistance based on what is pure conjecture.
He does not have any feats of resisting any level of deconstruction.

Natural side effects from powers, such as Energy Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Vibration Manipulation, and other abilities that can produce enough energy output to destroy or dismantle objects, do not mean that characters automatically qualify for this ability, unless the abilities in question specifically and directly focus on deconstruction in itself, rather than as a consequence.

Small black holes produce gravitational shearing forces capable of tearing apart any kind of matter at the subatomic level (of course, within fiction, there are exceptions).

Black holes in OPM would at least need to have shown these properties or be directly stated to have such properties before this can qualify as resistance.

 

[Tatsumi504]

to quote the exact note
"Natural side effects from powers, such as Energy Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Vibration Manipulation, and other abilities that can produce enough energy output to destroy or dismantle objects, do not mean that characters automatically qualify for this ability, unless the abilities in question specifically and directly focus on deconstruction in itself, rather than as a consequence."
notice how none of these things effect subatomic particles. it's saying that unless they're specifically stated to split apart at that level then it can't automatically qualify, as in a person being blown up into mincemeat isn't deconstruction, unless it's an explosion that targets atoms or some shit and deconstructs them on a smaller level that they have no dura against
on the contrary, surviving a black hole automatically means that you have durabillity on that smaller level, which is what gives you resistance to it
while resisting typical deconstruction would probably not be able to protect from someone applying tier 0 force to shred every atom in your body: it will still be resistance nonetheless

the best analogy I can come up with is being unable to break down a sturdy castle of legos with your bare hands, but then picking each lego off individually until there's nothing left of it. Whilst technically with enough force you could just break it down and likely deattach some bricks from the force of it, if they're superglued together then that would mean the method of picking them apart wouldn't work
that's deconstruction resistance, explained to the best of my ability and going off what the wiki says

I'm not dumb, I understand the point you're making and I still disagree.

Small black holes produce gravitational shearing forces capable of tearing apart any kind of matter at the subatomic level (of course, within fiction, there are exceptions).

There's no proof that black holes in OPM were intended to have this same effect. You'd have to prove that ONE intended for this to happen.