Game Sonic CRT: Fighting Games, Rivals and Storybooks.

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Introductions​

Heyo buddies, I'm here with a specific revision targetted towards some very important additions in relation to the Sonic verse in specific. This will be a very important CRT, as this is going to get some meaningful upgrades and ability additions to Game Sonic's arsenal.

Excalibur Sonic shenanigans.​

Some Abilities​

To elaborate in this part of the topic, Excalibur Sonic has an ability called Meteor Charge, which essentially allows his sword, yadda yadda, Excalibur, to cut through any kind of material, as stated by the Sonic the Hedgehog Loreposting in Twitter and Sega making an official Arthurpedia towards the story of the original Storybook in relation to the legends.

The ability of Excalibur being able to cut through any kind of material might be an NLF if it's taken in the literal meaning of the word. But, as of the circumstances, the Arthurian Legend portrayal would led the power of the sword of being capable of bypassing conventional durability following the context of the legend, as after Excalibur Sonic used the Meteor Charge, he was able to completely bypass Merlina's defenses and destroy the Dark Queen's form with a single attack during the aftermath, whereas he needed powerful hits to do heavy damage towards it before using the technique.

For further notice:

1. "この剣の刃は決してこぼれることなく、鋼や岩をやすやすと斬り裂いて、なまることがない。" = "The blade of this sword never shatters, slicing through steel and rock with ease and never falters." "戦いにあっては松明のように輝き、アーサーがそれを身に着けていれば、敗れることはない。" = "It shines like a torch in battle, and if Arthur wields it, he will not be defeated."
   
   
   
   
   
2. "宝石を飾った鞘には魔力があり、それを佩びている者は決して負傷しない。" = "The jeweled sheath has magical powers, and those who are holding it will never be injured."

So my proposal is in short towards the abilities, is basically this:

• Durability Negation (Excalibur is said to have power to cut through any kind of material, with said power, Sonic was able to completely bypass the Dark Queen's defenses in a single blow)

Note: The Sonic the Hedgehog Loreposting in Twitter is not a official account on the matter, it's just a fan account that posts official information towards the series as an additional context to understand the plot of how the games are being showed up.

3-A Upgrades​

This is a very tricky one, to elaborate, Excalibur Sonic after receiving the power of the swords, was able to defeat Merlina with the Scabbard that she gained from King Arthur, using the power of it, Merlina was going to completely merge the entirety of the Camelot dimension with the forces of the Underworld, essentially rewriting the entire universe of Camelot to create an eternal realm that lasts forever in her own desire in the process of creating a world where she makes everyone immortal.


We know that the World Of Camelot doesn't differ too much from the Arabian Nights reality that Sonic also traveled to in the past, as both of them are portrayed as entirely separate from Sonic's main universe and they are still universes respectively.

For further information about Camelot's size, see this document with some brief explanations.

• In short, there is no reason to assume that both of the realities are so much different from the other in this exact sense, even though they have their own starry skies in the same pattern as well.
• With all of this information listed, Excalibur Sonic gets upgraded to At least 3-A following those already mentioned premises.

Minor Base Sonic and Rivals additions.​

For this part, just some additional resistances are going to be listed in this case, for the following, we have those in the matter:

• Resistance to Durability Negation (Via Sonic Guard, Sonic can defend from special attacks charged up by the Ichikoro Gauge and release stored energy within it, which instantly knocks out the opponent bypassing their durability in the process)
• Limited Resistance to Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation and Possession (Tails and other individuals, such as Knuckles and Rouge are noted to be able to fight back against the Ifrit's power to bind one's mind, soul and possession, although they were ultimately taken over)

Sonic and the Rivals cast gets additional resistances following the premise of their Modern and Adventure era counterparts, respectively.

​

 

[Shey]

Seems reasonable I agree with points 1&3 not sure about 2, I’ll hold my vote for now

 

[Theuser789]

Agree with the hax additions since Sega had an official website about it, agree with a 3-A upgrade, but no low 2-C, and agree with the resistances

 

[BlastX]

I agree

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I very much agree with the hax additions + Excalibur scaling to Merlina's feat (As 3-A)

 

[Lord_JJJ]

I agree with 3A and Durability negation

 

[JED]

Neutral on Low 2-C but everything else I agree with

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Neutral on Low 2-C but everything else I agree with

I only pointed the ''possible Low 2-C'' rating as a consequence of something that I have addressed during the OP of this thread, and the argument is pretty clear in it's foundation.

 

[Theuser789]

That's not a low 2-C feat, the eternal realm is because the world of the dead and alive would be merged, there's no affecting time here to be low 2-C

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

That's not a low 2-C feat, the eternal realm is because the world of the dead and alive would be merged, there's no affecting time here to be low 2-C

If she is going to rewrite the foundation of the dimension by using the power of it then it perfectly qualifies, even if it's just a merging feat, and you also need suggestive evidence that space-time wasn't distorted during the aftermath, as we visibly see the forces of the Underworld expanding through the entirety of Camelot after Merlina activates the power of the scabbard.

 

[Theuser789]

Except that's not how it works? I do not have to prove a negative, you need to prove space and time is affected, merging two dimensions of the same universe isn't tier 2 automatically, unless you are suggesting she did a 2-C feat, nothing you said is proof of a low 2-C feat

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Except that's not how it works? I do not have to prove a negative, you need to prove space and time is affected, merging two dimensions of the same universe isn't tier 2 automatically, unless you are suggesting she did a 2-C feat, nothing you said is proof of a low 2-C feat

Because in this case you have to prove that the merging wouldn't affect the entire universe within it as we literally see the expansion of negative forces after Merlina unleashes the power of the scabbard through the entire dimension in addition to the Red Sky in the same scenes, and even the barrier created by the swords is too weak to even contain it as the process goes on. That's where the possibly Low 2-C applies in.

The Underworld and the rest of Avalon inside of Camelot are just 2 points in the previously mentioned space-time continuum that Merlina is merging in order to affect the entire universe in the process to make everyone immortal, nothing suggests that it's just an castle after all.

 

[Theuser789]

What the hell is this inversion of burden of proof? You are the one who needs to prove this is a low 2-C feat, not me who needs to prove that it isn't, and you haven't done that, everything you described is a 3-A feat, not low 2-C

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Agree with the hax additions also I have discussed 3-A Excalibur Sonic in the past and fully understand the context behind it, so I'm fine with it.

From High 4-C to 5-B to 5-A to low 4-C to 3-A it's definitely been quite the journey for the exalted hedgehog.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

What the hell is this inversion of burden of proof? You are the one who needs to prove this is a low 2-C feat, not me who needs to prove that it isn't, and you haven't done that, everything you described is a 3-A feat, not low 2-C

You should explain why this is not a Low 2-C feat after all, as you were the first one who disagreed with the proposal even after I have gathered the arguments to suggest the possibility of the rating, and you didn't even consider the other evidences I have posted as it doesn't disprove she affecting the entire universe in the process since we are talking about a space-time continuum here, and the point of she warping it is just supported by the power of the scabbard being unleashed and warping the dimension during this exact process. Which is only supported by the red sky and a powerful gravitational pull starting to destroy the dimension itself, which is again repeated by Shadow (Or Lancelot)'s perception.

We don't need a direct statement that space-time was affected during this time, as the only thing needed to prove is that she is affecting the entirety of the structure to begin with by using some sort of AP based reality warping, similar to what Alf-Layla does aside from the fact that she uses fusionism at this point.

 

[Theuser789]

No, YOU are the one who needs to explain why this is a low 2-C feat

Stop shifting the burden of proof

shifting the burden of proof

www.law.cornell.edu

And I don't have to prove a negative

Burden of proof (philosophy) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Nothing you posted here was a low 2-C feat, you need to replay the game again because saying her feat is the same as Erazor's is completely wrong, Erazor warped and destroyed the entire world, Merlina merged two realms, she never wanted any destruction, you are literally misunderstanding her entire plan to put her into a higher tier

 

[ElixirBlue]

essentially rewriting the entire timeline

Wait, where does it mention “Time”?

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Wait, where does it mention “Time”?

I used that as flowery language to suggest that she affected the rest of the realm, nothing above this entire sense in nature.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Merlina merged two realms, she never wanted any destruction, you are literally misunderstanding her entire plan to put her into a higher tier

She literally created a hole in the space-time continuum with the power of the scabbard that was going to consume the kingdom itself, which is only a process of her merging to create a new kingdom in the process, this isn't a nice counter argument at all.

I'm not misunderstanding her plan, I'm using a analogy to make an example of what I'm trying to say. I posted the scan of Lancelot's statement about the destruction of the kingdom because it's not inconsistent to what the game shows up.

Erazor warped and destroyed the entire world

Yes, and we don't have any statement of space-time being destroyed at all, hence the equivalence here applies, because we have visual implications of such events happening.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

From High 4-C to 5-B to 5-A to low 4-C to 3-A it's definitely been quite the journey for the exalted hedgehog.

just wait until he gets tier 1

 

[Theuser789]

She literally created a hole in the space-time continuum with the power of the scabbard that was going to consume the kingdom itself, which is only a process of her merging to create a new kingdom in the process, this isn't a nice counter argument at all.

Your post isn't a counter argument, the hole she created was how she was merging the two realms, that's still not tier 2, but only tier 3, you keep saying only tier 3 feats and twisting them into being a low 2-C feat when they aren't

I'm not misunderstanding her plan, I'm using a analogy to make an example of what I'm trying to say. I posted the scan of Lancelot's statement about the destruction of the kingdom because it's not inconsistent to what the game shows up.

And your analogy is wrong, Lancelot says the Kingdom would be consumed, that's not the same as "going to be destroyed", and Merlina's word>his word, you are twisting her plan to make Sonic a higher tier

Yes, and we don't have any statement of space-time being destroyed at all, hence the equivalence here applies, because we have visual implications of such events happening.

Except the feats have nothing in common, it's a complete false analogy to compare the two, they are two different feats with different contexts that have nothing in common, you can't just say "Erazor did a tier 2 feat so this unrelated character is also tier 2"

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Your post isn't a counter argument, the hole she created was how she was merging the two realms, that's still not tier 2, but only tier 3, you keep saying only tier 3 feats and twisting them into being a low 2-C feat when they aren't

You don't have countered how she was not affecting the entire universe with the merge even after I posted the arguments for the said a pretty much while ago, the standard that we take for these feats is that they are tier 2 within a possible extension, the default assumption of literally affecting entire universes is destroying their space-time contained inside unless there's explicit evidence that suggests the complete polar opposite of the said, as I may remind you, she is not affecting a pocket universal 3-D space, but an actual universe that's literally just a makeover of Sonic's world, whilst the latter is already considered a space-time continuum by extension, we literally don't need statements of space-time itself being affected to prove that they are affected.

And your analogy is wrong, Lancelot says the Kingdom would be consumed, that's not the same as "going to be destroyed", and Merlina's word>his word, you are twisting her plan to make Sonic a higher tier

The Kingdom itself going to get consumed by the power of the scabbard is still a relevant statement that comes from Lancelot himself who in this case is a reliable source as to how the forces of the Underworld were going to get expanded, the current kingdom that was created by her grandfather and by consequence King Arthur would get destroyed alongside the rest of the Camelot dimension because they were already fated from the start. The importance of these statements is that they show in a simplier sense how exactly Merlina was going to use the scabbard to recreate it, since that was the literal importance of her plot from the very beginning of the game itself.

Except the feats have nothing in common, it's a complete false analogy to compare the two, they are two different feats with different contexts that have nothing in common, you can't just say "Erazor did a tier 2 feat so this unrelated character is also tier 2"

I would say that this is a fair point, except from the parts that I have already established earlier, as I'm trying to say that both feats do not have space-time statements of it being entirely destroyed, but visual implications of it happening by the default of them significantly changing the entire nature of tier 2 universes at this point, one is using RW, the other is using the power of a merge. I fail to see how you still didn't understand this point earlier.

 

[Clown96]

I agree with everything also shouldn't sonic get acausality type 4 since he resist to fate hax

 

[sanicspood]

not how that works

 

[Clown96]

not how that works

Could you please explain

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Could you please explain

Having a resistance to a certain ability is just a way smaller part of Sonic literally working in a entire different system of cause and effect for this to happen.

 

[Remus1998]

Fine with everything including 3-A. Neutral on Low 2-C however

 

[DarlingAurora]

I agree with all and 3-A, but Neutral on Low 2-C too.

 

[Theuser789]

You don't have countered how she was not affecting the entire universe with the merge even after I posted the arguments for the said a pretty much while ago, the standard that we take for these feats is that they are tier 2 within a possible extension, the default assumption of literally affecting entire universes is destroying their space-time contained inside unless there's explicit evidence that suggests the complete polar opposite of the said, as I may remind you, she is not affecting a pocket universal 3-D space, but an actual universe that's literally just a makeover of Sonic's world, whilst the latter is already considered a space-time continuum by extension, we literally don't need statements of space-time itself being affected to prove that they are affected.

Your comment literally makes no sense, like at all, first I don't need to prove the negative, you are the one who needs to prove Merlina's tier 2, YOU are the one who said she was so prove it. No, affecting the universe is 3-A, there's nothing indicating Merlina is destroying space and time, especially since she doesn't want to destroy anything

Definition of 3-A:
"Characters who can destroy all celestial bodies within a volume at least equivalent to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a universe of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time."
This is literally Merlina's feat, your argument is simply "she affected the universe so tier 2" when that isn't always tier 2

The Kingdom itself going to get consumed by the power of the scabbard is still a relevant statement that comes from Lancelot himself who in this case is a reliable source as to how the forces of the Underworld were going to get expanded, the current kingdom that was created by her grandfather and by consequence King Arthur would get destroyed alongside the rest of the Camelot dimension because they were already fated from the start. The importance of these statements is that they show in a simplier sense how exactly Merlina was going to use the scabbard to recreate it, since that was the literal importance of her plot from the very beginning of the game itself.

Nothing was going to be destroyed and recreated, stop twisting the game's plot, Merlina was going to STOP the fated destruction of the Kingdom, not CAUSE it, that's the entire conflict of the game, Sonic wants life to go on while she doesn't, the Kingdom being consumed by the underworld is the tier 3 feat, it is STILL not tier 2

I would say that this is a fair point, except from the parts that I have already established earlier, as I'm trying to say that both feats do not have space-time statements of it being entirely destroyed, but visual implications of it happening by the default of them significantly changing the entire nature of tier 2 universes at this point, one is using RW, the other is using the power of a merge. I fail to see how you still didn't understand this point earlier.

The two feats are COMPLETELY different and you simply cannot compare the two, Erazor's feat is completely irrelevant to this thread and you should stop trying to compare it, there's nothing indicating Merlina's feat is tier 2, you haven't show a single piece of evidence for tier 2, you only have been posting tier 3 feats and saying they are tier 2 because muh Erazor. Her universe being the same size is irrelevant, her feat is still only tier 3, in fact the she is 3-A and not tier 4 or something is because the universes are the same size. Erazor's feat is simply completely irrelevant

 

[Clown96]

He literally say 3A and possibly low 2C

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Definition of 3-A:
"Characters who can destroy all celestial bodies within a volume at least equivalent to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a universe of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time."
This is literally Merlina's feat, your argument is simply "she affected the universe so tier 2" when that isn't always tier 2

Then I say your comment is wrong, because affecting an actual universe literally contradicts that by definition, she isn't destroying a pocket space of a relevant size of the matter to just an observable universe of the coin, she is literally just warping the entirety of the dimension by fusing the boundaries between the Underworld and the rest of Camelot, which is a point that the ONLY counter argument that you have used is that she didn't affect time itself as of her desire to not destroy anything inside of it which is a very weak point, when she was significantly affecting the latter to a general extent with the power of the fusion, do you know the reason of why Beerus VS Champa is considered a 2-C feat? Because they can significantly affect and destroy both of their respective universes when NO mention of space-time is included in this pattern, because that's how it works.

You're using the same ridiculous Yuri logic as if is a common sense to not have these kind of feats classified as a tier 2 just because there are exceptions towards what the tiering system quotes, whilst the latter points is contradicted by the foundation of the other arguments used in the preposition of what I'm trying to exactly prove there, the possible Low 2-C rating is already given by her merging the entire universe inside of the dimension within this extension of she BY DEFAULT affecting EVERYTHING inside of the dimension, which isn't any different from any other universal feat that has a tier 2 classification on the matter.

Nothing was going to be destroyed and recreated, stop twisting the game's plot, Merlina was going to STOP the fated destruction of the Kingdom, not CAUSE it, that's the entire conflict of the game, Sonic wants life to go on while she doesn't, the Kingdom being consumed by the underworld is the tier 3 feat, it is STILL not tier 2

Yet I'm not ignoring this part that she was going to stop the destruction of it, I'm just using flowery languages to justify how the ''consumation'' of the Kingdom is still a relevant part to categorize the feat, because what she apparently did was creating a hole in space-time that was going to consume the rest of the entire dimension, this is literally the only thing that I'm using to argue the ''possibly'' tier 2 rating, if you have problems with the latter then this isn't something of my concern.

The two feats are COMPLETELY different and you simply cannot compare the two, Erazor's feat is completely irrelevant to this thread and you should stop trying to compare it, there's nothing indicating Merlina's feat is tier 2, you haven't show a single piece of evidence for tier 2, you only have been posting tier 3 feats and saying they are tier 2 because muh Erazor. Her universe being the same size is irrelevant, her feat is still only tier 3, in fact the she is 3-A and not tier 4 or something is because the universes are the same size. Erazor's feat is simply completely irrelevant

Yes, both of the feats are entirely different and I don't negated it in any part of this thread at all, the analogy of my argument is that both of the feats have no mention of space-time itself being destroyed, hence why I'm trying to make an indirect equivalence between how we treat both feats VS your ridiculous interpretation that fails to understand that I'M NOT taking both of the feats as something EQUAL to each other as if they were the same case of the 2 sides of the coin to begin with, whilst the previous points that I have argued don't imply in any shape or form that I'm trying to say that both are exactly the same.

 

[Theuser789]

He literally say 3A and possibly low 2C

There's no possibly low 2-C because there's no low 2-C feat here

 

[Clown96]

Can we just put excalibur and merlina 3A and be done with that

 

[Theuser789]

Then I say your comment is wrong, because affecting an actual universe literally contradicts that by definition, she isn't destroying a pocket space of a relevant size of the matter to just an observable universe of the coin, she is literally just warping the entirety of the dimension by fusing the boundaries between the Underworld and the rest of Camelot, which is a point that the ONLY counter argument that you have used is that she didn't affect time itself as of her desire to not destroy anything inside of it which is a very weak point, when she was significantly affecting the latter to a general extent with the power of the fusion, do you know the reason of why Beerus VS Champa is considered a 2-C feat? Because they can significantly affect and destroy both of their respective universes when NO mention of space-time is included in this pattern, because that's how it works.

How is my comment wrong when I was quoting the wikia definition? Are you saying the the wikia is wrong? Then make a CRT about it. Merging two realms that exist in a universe is just a 3-A feat, there's no tier 2 feat, I am not the one who needs to explain why this isn't tier 2, YOU need to explain why this is tier 2, your only arguments are "It's obvious it is and unrelated feats", Beerus and Champa are a different feat, they are affecting two universes, if you want a Dragon Ball comparassion Goku in Battle of gods is still tier 3 even though their clash was going to destroy the afterlife and the living world, using your logic he should be tier 2 just cause

You're using the same ridiculous Yuri logic as if is a common sense to not have these kind of feats classified as a tier 2 just because there are exceptions towards what the tiering system quotes, whilst the latter points is contradicted by the foundation of the other arguments used in the preposition of what I'm trying to exactly prove there, the possible Low 2-C rating is already given by her merging the entire universe inside of the dimension within this extension of she BY DEFAULT affecting EVERYTHING inside of the dimension, which isn't any different from any other universal feat that has a tier 2 classification on the matter.

I don't know nor care about this Yuri person, the feat isn't tier 2 because because merging two realms that exist in the same space and time isn't a tier 2 feat, stop treating Merlina being tier 2 as something obvious that you don't need to prove, show evidence it's tier 2

Yet I'm not ignoring this part that she was going to stop the destruction of it, I'm just using flowery languages to justify how the ''consumation'' of the Kingdom is still a relevant part to categorize the feat, because what she apparently did was creating a hole in space-time that was going to consume the rest of the entire dimension, this is literally the only thing that I'm using to argue the ''possibly'' tier 2 rating, if you have problems with the latter then this isn't something of my concern.

Flowery language means that you what you are saying is just metaphorical and therefore means nothing, you are literally conceding you said nothing that actually matters. Creating a hole to merge two realms that exist in the same universe is 3-A, you are treating it as a 2-C feat in your mind while you argue for low 2-C, when it's simply a 3-A feat, there's no "possibly" here because there's no feat

Yes, both of the feats are entirely different and I don't negated it in any part of this thread at all, the analogy of my argument is that both of the feats have no mention of space-time itself being destroyed, hence why I'm trying to make an indirect equivalence between how we treat both feats VS your ridiculous interpretation that fails to understand that I'M NOT taking both of the feats as something EQUAL to each other as if they were the same case of the 2 sides of the coin to begin with, whilst the previous points that I have argued don't imply in any shape or form that I'm trying to say that both are exactly the same.

If they aren't equal then it's irrelevant what Erazor did or didn't, we treat both feats different because they are different feats, now stop shifting the burden of proof and prove Merlina is doing a tier 2 feat, instead of posting 3-A feats and saying they are tier 2 and calling me ridiculous because of it

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Are you saying the the wikia is wrong? Then make a CRT about it. Merging two realms that exist in a universe is just a 3-A feat, there's no tier 2 feat, I am not the one who needs to explain why this isn't tier 2

I'm not saying the wikia is wrong in any shape or form, because our universe page literally says the same thing that what the Low 2-C tiering for the case is, a destruction of the universe is defaultly assumed to be the space-time continuum because that's how it works, unless there is explicit evidence that says the otherwise of what is commonly assumed, in which case there isn't, destroy an entire universe is considered a Low 2-C feat because that's a thing on our standards for the entire case already. Merlina's feat is not different from this in the other parts of it's entirety despite she having no statements of space-time being destroyed, since the word ''universe'' is already supposed to cover it.

And no, i'm not making a CRT for something that is already acknowledged for the entirety of the wiki in general. I even said the ''possibly'' is based on the assumption of the default destruction of the universe being already considered a Low 2-C feat because we have an universe rated as ''space-time continuum'' in our own terms.

Beerus and Champa are a different feat, they are affecting two universes, if you want a Dragon Ball comparassion Goku in Battle of gods is still tier 3 even though their clash was going to destroy the afterlife and the living world, using your logic he should be tier 2 just cause

That's how the equivalence is made, Beerus and Champa has no statement of affecting space-time in the destruction of 2 universes and it's still considered a tier 2 feat because that's how our default sense of assumptions targetted towards universal destruction works, there is literally no reason to even assume that it shouldn't. Same thing here.

I don't know nor care about this Yuri person, the feat isn't tier 2 because because merging two realms that exist in the same space and time isn't a tier 2 feat, stop treating Merlina being tier 2 as something obvious that you don't need to prove, show evidence it's tier 2

At this point you're trying to make ad nauseam for arguments that I have already debunked earlier, because what Merlina is doing is merging the entire universe of Camelot between the boundaries of the underworld, they aren't 2 realms enclosed in the same kind of space altogether because that's not how they are treated, the underworld is simply a pocket dimension outside of Camelot that she was going to use to merge with the entire universe in the process.

If they aren't equal then it's irrelevant what Erazor did or didn't, we treat both feats different because they are different feats, now stop shifting the burden of proof and prove Merlina is doing a tier 2 feat, instead of posting 3-A feats and saying they are tier 2 and calling me ridiculous because of it

And I'm going to say once again that I didn't imply in any shape or form that both of them are equal, I used an analogy based on a single aspect of both feats to exemplify my argument of why we don't need statements of space-time itself being affected to make a better distinction between how a default universal destruction or similar kinds of influences are made.

 

[Theuser789]

I'm not saying the wikia is wrong in any shape or form, because our universe page literally says the same thing that what the Low 2-C tiering for the case is, a destruction of the universe is defaultly assumed to be the space-time continuum because that's how it works, unless there is explicit evidence that says the otherwise of what is commonly assumed, in which case there isn't, destroy an entire universe is considered a Low 2-C feat because that's a thing on our standards for the entire case already. Merlina's feat is not different from this in the other parts of it's entirety despite she having no statements of space-time being destroyed, since the word ''universe'' is already supposed to cover it.

And no, i'm not making a CRT for something that is already acknowledged for the entirety of the wiki in general. I even said the ''possibly'' is based on the assumption of the default destruction of the universe being already considered a Low 2-C feat because we have an universe rated as ''space-time continuum'' in our own terms.

Merlina wasn't going to destroy the universe, the universe itself being low 2-C is irrelevant when her feat is simply 3-A and doesn't affect space and time

That's how the equivalence is made, Beerus and Champa has no statement of affecting space-time in the destruction of 2 universes and it's still considered a tier 2 feat because that's how our default sense of assumptions targetted towards universal destruction works, there is literally no reason to even assume that it shouldn't. Same thing here.

Nope, it's not the same thing, their feat is 2-C because of their own circunstances, there's no universal destruction here to even put the feats at the same level

At this point you're trying to make ad nauseam for arguments that I have already debunked earlier, because what Merlina is doing is merging the entire universe of Camelot between the boundaries of the underworld, they aren't 2 realms enclosed in the same kind of space altogether because that's not how they are treated, the underworld is simply a pocket dimension outside of Camelot that she was going to use to merge with the entire universe in the process.

You didn't debunk anything, in fact you haven't proven anything. Camelot and the underworld are both part of the book, which is the universe itself, they aren't two separated worlds, you really are treating this as a 2-C feat and saying it's low 2-C

And I'm going to say once again that I didn't imply in any shape or form that both of them are equal, I used an analogy based on a single aspect of both feats to exemplify my argument of why we don't need statements of space-time itself being affected to make a better distinction between how a default universal destruction or similar kinds of influences are made.

And your analogy is simply wrong because they are two different things, you can't make analogies between two completely different things and expect it to hold together

Now, post proof of it being a low 2-C feat or concede, the CRT is yours and you need to prove your claims, you keep dodging it and assuming the feat is tier 2 because you say so and other completely unrelated feats and verses

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Merlina wasn't going to destroy the universe, the universe itself being low 2-C is irrelevant when her feat is simply 3-A and doesn't affect space and time

And how you can say that it doesn't affect space and time when the default assumption that we take for destroying an entire universe is that space-time is already included in this pack unless there's explicit evidence that states the otherwise? I didn't even say that she was going to destroy the universe, I said that she was going to merge it with a different realm, I even directly linked the term page for universe to address this in the entirety of it, she affecting space-time or not is entirely irrelevant to how she is still warping the entire universe with the merge with the scabbard of excalibur in this sense, there is no direct statement of she affecting space-time, but it's still implied that she did as a default assumption of the universe being already warped there.

Nope, it's not the same thing, their feat is 2-C because of their own circunstances, there's no universal destruction here to even put the feats at the same level

Let's say someone is capable of destroying or signifcantly affecting the entire universe, no mention of space-time there, but we assume that space-time is included as a default assumption to classify it as a Low 2-C feat because it's already included inside of the pack, why would this case be any different when the size of Camelot is literally the same as the Arabian Nights in context? Again, this point is just a repetition. She created a hole in space-time using the scabbard to fuse both of the realms, which would affect the entire universe in consequence, hence the hole created warps it, that's the possible Low 2-C part.

You didn't debunk anything, in fact you haven't proven anything. Camelot and the underworld are both part of the book, which is the universe itself, they aren't two separated worlds, you really are treating this as a 2-C feat and saying it's low 2-C

They are different dimensions in the same universe that Merlina was still affecting in it's entirety and I don't need to prove that space-time is being mentioned up, once again, an entire universe is already Low 2-C, just use a basic sense of logic, if someone is capable of entirely destroying it or significantly affecting it, then what's needing of directly mentioning space-time there?

Now, post proof of it being a low 2-C feat or concede, the CRT is yours and you need to prove your claims, you keep dodging it and assuming the feat is tier 2 because you say so and other completely unrelated feats and verses

I'm using other feats as examples to prove my argument since the very beginning of this discussion.

 

[Theuser789]

And how you can say that it doesn't affect space and time when the default assumption that we take for destroying an entire universe is that space-time is already included in this pack unless there's explicit evidence that states the otherwise? I didn't even say that she was going to destroy the universe, I said that she was going to merge it with a different realm, I even directly linked the term page for universe to address this in the entirety of it, she affecting space-time or not is entirely irrelevant to how she is still warping the entire universe with the merge with the scabbard of excalibur in this sense, there is no direct statement of she affecting space-time, but it's still implied that she did as a default assumption of the universe being already warped there.

I can say it because she isn't destroying the universe, what the heck even is this argument? "I didn't say she was going to destroy the universe but universe destruction is low 2-C so she is low 2-C", pure nonsense, she was going to merge with a merge with a realm, yeah, that's not automatically tier 2

Let's say someone is capable of destroying or signifcantly affecting the entire universe, no mention of space-time there, but we assume that space-time is included as a default assumption to classify it as a Low 2-C feat because it's already included inside of the pack, why would this case be any different when the size of Camelot is literally the same as the Arabian Nights in context? Again, this point is just a repetition. She created a hole in space-time using the scabbard to fuse both of the realms, which would affect the entire universe in consequence, hence the hole created warps it, that's the possible Low 2-C part.

Because she isn't doing any of those feats, she is simly merging two realms that are part of the same universe, that's not low 2-C, just 3-A, you even concede it isn't tier 2 by arguing for a possibly rating when there's no feat to be argued for

They are different dimensions in the same universe that Merlina was still affecting in it's entirety and I don't need to prove that space-time is being mentioned up, once again, an entire universe is already Low 2-C, just use a basic sense of logic, if someone is capable of entirely destroying it or significantly affecting it, then what's needing of directly mentioning space-time there?

So you concede she isn't warping two different space and times, thus no tier 2 feat here, she is affecting the spatial universe, ergo 3-A, you are describing a 3-A feat and saying that's tier 2 because you say so, I am wondering if you even understand the difference between 3-A and low 2-C

I'm using other feats as examples to prove my argument since the very beginning of this discussion.

And those other feats are completely irrelevant because they are completely different feats, it's like saying because a whale can survive underwater so can a bear, something completely unrelated

 

[Clown96]

I can say it because she isn't destroying the universe, what the heck even is this argument? "I didn't say she was going to destroy the universe but universe destruction is low 2-C so she is low 2-C", pure nonsense, she was going to merge with a merge with a realm, yeah, that's not automatically tier 2

Because she isn't doing any of those feats, she is simly merging two realms that are part of the same universe, that's not low 2-C, just 3-A, you even concede it isn't tier 2 by arguing for a possibly rating when there's no feat to be argued for

So you concede she isn't warping two different space and times, thus no tier 2 feat here, she is affecting the spatial universe, ergo 3-A, you are describing a 3-A feat and saying that's tier 2 because you say so, I am wondering if you even understand the difference between 3-A and low 2-C

And those other feats are completely irrelevant because they are completely different feats, it's like saying because a whale can survive underwater so can a bear, something completely unrelated

Look can we just all agree that those two are 3A and be done with that

 

[Theuser789]

I am not the one who is disagreeing with 3-A