[FOX's X-Men] Speed and Pyro Upgrades

[RoTt35]

Speed Upgrades
This accepted calc upgrades Magneto's attack speed to Hypersonic+. Cyclops was able to blast some objects thrown by Magneto before being overwhelmed, so his combat speed would scale. Lady Deathstrike attacked Cyclops before he could respond, as clarified in the novelization:

Instinct warned of another attack, a fresh threat; training prompted an instantaneous response. But quick as Scott was, Yuriko was quicker

So her combat speed should be "At least Hypersonic+". Wolverine, although slower, was able to kept up with Lady Deathstrike, so his speed would just be Hypersonic+, and the other Hypersonic characters scale from him

Pyro
This accepted calc upgrades his Fire Manipulation from High 8-C to 8-B

The artbook of Deadpool and Wolverine seems to imply that both Pyro and the Human Torch are the same ones from their respective FOX universes:

In the sprawling desolation of the Void, Wade spies a glimmer of hope, of inspiration in the form of a cloaked figure with a very familiar face. But this isn't Chris Evans returning as Captain America, it's him going even further back in his résumé to reprise the role of Fantastic Four's Johnny Storm. Flame on! "That misdirection of assuming it's Cap, only to realize it's Johnny was a very early idea of screenwriters Paul Wernick and Rhett Reese, Shawn Levy says. Even though our story went through dozens of permutations, this Johnny Storm misdirect always survived, and we knew that if we could preserve the secret and pull it off, it would get people on their feet. And indeed, that's been the reaction I've seen. But, in my wildest dreams, I didn't know I would get such a golden movie-star performance as the one Chris Evans gave us. Everything about him, I feel like it's Chris in a Marvel movie, freed from the nobility of Cap and able to be, frankly, much closer to his Boston dude self. And he just chewed it up, spat it out, ate it again, digested it, and created this brief but glorious performance as the OG Johnny Storm. It's just a joy to watch."

Overall with the marauders, including Aaron Stanford returning to the role of Pyro that he played in 2003's X-Men 2 and 2006's X-Men: The Last Stand, and a variant of Toad, last seen in 2000's X-Men Churchyard says that the costume department sought to "honor the legacy of the Fox X-Men characters and try to get them as close as possible to how they looked before," albeit reflecting what might have been years spent in this dystopian wasteland.

Pyro was able to react to an attack from the Human Torch, who has MHS speed. I don't know if it would be valid to scale Pyro's speed to that of the Human Torch based on that

Extras:

• Radiation Manipulation (His power can deflect radar pulses) for Pre-Retcon Magneto
  • Radio waves are electromagnetic radiation
• Water Manipulation (Can up the humidity in the air to the level of a tropical rain forest) for Pre-Retcon Storm

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[GrayCraft_Dragon]

This thing need more attention, I think I might agree

 

[Tllmbrg]

Iceman
This is the current profile of Iceman, very barebones, here is the sandbox I made to rework him, I added new abilities, justifications, scans and references, some upgrades, plus a new key to separate his base form from his organic ice form

I think the Extrasensory Perception is better indexed as Enhanced Senses since it's like infrared vision
I'd remove resistance to Energy Projection since it's just a durability feat. On the same basis, I'd remove resistance to Plasma Manipulation since he doesn't resist the manipulation of plasma, just the heat of it.
Personally, I wouldn't divide his transformed and untransformed states into different keys, I'd instead do it as "X physically, Y when transformed"
On the same note, why is he listed as Unknown? Wouldn't the bare minimum be 10-A or something due to being a trained superhero? Also, his speed section has feats in it (Idk if the gun one counts as aim dodging, but I feel like the rocket one can be used for a more definitive rating)

 

[RoTt35]

Bump, I also added speed upgrades in the op based on a recently accepted calc

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I think the Extrasensory Perception is better indexed as Enhanced Senses since it's like infrared vision
I'd remove resistance to Energy Projection since it's just a durability feat. On the same basis, I'd remove resistance to Plasma Manipulation since he doesn't resist the manipulation of plasma, just the heat of it.
Personally, I wouldn't divide his transformed and untransformed states into different keys, I'd instead do it as "X physically, Y when transformed"
On the same note, why is he listed as Unknown? Wouldn't the bare minimum be 10-A or something due to being a trained superhero? Also, his speed section has feats in it (Idk if the gun one counts as aim dodging, but I feel like the rocket one can be used for a more definitive rating)

I agree with this

Pyro was able to react to an attack from the Human Torch, who has MHS speed. I don't know if it would be valid to scale Pyro's speed to that of the Human Torch based on that

I wouldn't mind the upgrade, but given this is technically an older and more experienced Pyro, I believe we would give him a new key for this movie.

I also don't think anyone scales to him besides maybe Cassandra (I don't remember him fighting at all besides this scene and getting eff'd later by Cassandra), so it wouldn't interfere with the rest of the scaling of the cast.

Still, again, I wouldn't mind the upgrade and if it scales to other people, so be it.

The rest of the things in OP should be fine

@DarkDragonMedeus @Propellus @FinePoint @ActuallySpaceMan42 your help here would be appreciated

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright.

All the points Lephyr made I mean.

 

[RoTt35]

I didn't see this comment, my bad

I'd remove resistance to Energy Projection since it's just a durability feat.

The resistance was already accepted in a previous CRT and is applied to some profiles, so it isn't something that is being proposed here or related to the thread

On the same basis, I'd remove resistance to Plasma Manipulation since he doesn't resist the manipulation of plasma, just the heat of it.

I don't get this, why wouldn't resisting an attack composed of plasma be resistance to plasma? Plasma isn't just heat

Personally, I wouldn't divide his transformed and untransformed states into different keys, I'd instead do it as "X physically, Y when transformed"

The problem is that his stats wouldn't be "X physically, Y when transformed", it would be "X physically, Y with Ice Manipulation at base, up to Z, W when transformed", and imo that looks ugly and very clogged up

On the same note, why is he listed as Unknown? Wouldn't the bare minimum be 10-A or something due to being a trained superhero?

It's because Iceman doesn't have any physical feats, and the physical strength of the other X-Men can range up to tier 8 even if they aren't physical fighters

Also, his speed section has feats in it (Idk if the gun one counts as aim dodging, but I feel like the rocket one can be used for a more definitive rating)

Without a calc or knowing the type of missile, I don't think we can assume a definitive speed

 

[RoTt35]

I wouldn't mind the upgrade, but given this is technically an older and more experienced Pyro, I believe we would give him a new key for this movie.

Would that really justify Pyro becoming far faster than he was in the previous films? And if we gave him another key, what would his other stats be like, the same?

Still, again, I wouldn't mind the upgrade and if it scales to other people, so be it.

If Pyro is upgraded to MHS, that would scale to Iceman, and from him the 2023 Sentinels and the X-Men of the future (Colossus, Sunspot, Bishop), if I remember correctly I think anyone of the main cast scales from them

 

[Hixkaryana]

I calced the pond feat and it was Small Building, not sure if it can be used as a justification for Large Building then.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Would that really justify Pyro becoming far faster than he was in the previous films?

Considering he doesn't show any feat of this level in the older films? Kinda

And if we gave him another key, what would his other stats be like, the same?

The good ol' "Should be as strong as his past self, could casually put out Human Torchs flames" GG

 

[RoTt35]

Considering he doesn't show any feat of this level in the older films? Kinda

If all the Relativistic feats weren't considered outliers this wouldn't be a problem Anyways, fair about Pyro's new key then

 

[Tllmbrg]

The resistance was already accepted in a previous CRT and is applied to some profiles, so it isn't something that is being proposed here or related to the thread

Well I don't have to agree with it, and it's not like a lot is going in the CRT as is so. I think if you're gonna revise the page might as well remove the resistance.

I don't get this, why wouldn't resisting an attack composed of plasma be resistance to plasma? Plasma isn't just heat

If a throw an explosion at you and you tank it, you don't get resistance to explosion manipulation. Same with plasma, the only relevant aspect of plasma here is the heat.

The problem is that his stats wouldn't be "X physically, Y when transformed", it would be "X physically, Y with Ice Manipulation at base, up to Z, W when transformed", and imo that looks ugly and very clogged up

It would however be more accurate, so I think you should still swap to it. Again it's not a different key, it's just a transformation he can go to whenever, I don't see the point in it. We don't give Goku different key for Super Saiyan, so Iceman's transformation should be a part of one key

Without a calc or knowing the type of missile, I don't think we can assume a definitive speed

Okay so get it calced, otherwise the rating is just false

 

[RoTt35]

Well I don't have to agree with it, and it's not like a lot is going in the CRT as is so. I think if you're gonna revise the page might as well remove the resistance.

Still, it isn't something new that is being proposed here. Another CRT could be made to remove the already accepted resistance

If a throw an explosion at you and you tank it, you don't get resistance to explosion manipulation. Same with plasma, the only relevant aspect of plasma here is the heat.

Resisting a fire attack would grant resistance to Fire Manipulation, resisting a lightning would grant resistance to Electricity Manipulation, etc. Why would resisting plasma be different? And I would appreciate an explanation, not a comparison to another unrelated ability

It would however be more accurate, so I think you should still swap to it. Again it's not a different key, it's just a transformation he can go to whenever, I don't see the point in it. We don't give Goku different key for Super Saiyan, so Iceman's transformation should be a part of one key

Agree to disagree. The comparison with Goku is inaccurate since his profile already has multiple keys with several transformations due to his different arcs, other characters have a key for their transformation like Iceman from the comics

Okay so get it calced, otherwise the rating is just false

Sorry, but I'm not going to wait months for another calc that just scales to a single stat for a single character to be made and then evaluated

 

[Tllmbrg]

Still, it isn't something new that is being proposed here. Another CRT could be made to remove the already accepted resistance

Or we can just tack it here? Why waste everyone's time if you're already revising the page?

Resisting a fire attack would grant resistance to Fire Manipulation

No it doesn't actually. Fire/Plasma hurts people because it's hot, if you endure a stream of it you're resisting the heat, not anything else from it. The fact it's plasma is irrelevant to what you're doing. Only way you resist something like plasma manipulation is if you're made from it and someone tries to control your body with it, otherwise this is just not the type of ability you resist as any feat of tanking or enduring it falls under temperature resistance.

Agree to disagree. The comparison with Goku is inaccurate since his profile already has multiple keys with several transformations due to his different arcs, other characters have a key for their transformation like Iceman from the comics

Iceman's comic page is bad, it does a poor job of separating his base from his transformed key in a lot of areas. Furthermore, it seems fairly outdated all things considered.

Sorry, but I'm not going to wait months for another calc that just scales to a single stat for a single character to be made and then evaluated

Then the CRT should not pass for months because it's inaccurate, idk what you want me to say. Get the feat calced.

 

[RoTt35]

Then the CRT should not pass for months

Yeah, I don't care about Iceman anymore, his profile can stay as shit as it is now or straight up be deleted, it's not like anyone on the wiki cares about his profile.

@LephyrTheRevanchist is it fine if I apply everything else that was already accepted?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Yeah, I don't care about Iceman anymore, his profile can stay as shit as it is now or straight up be deleted, it's not like anyone on the wiki cares about his profile.

@LephyrTheRevanchist is it fine if I apply everything else that was already accepted?

So you want to ignore DDM's and my agreement with Tllmbrg's points?

 

[RoTt35]

So you want to ignore DDM's and my agreement with Tllmbrg's points?

Tllmbrg only made points about Iceman, whose rework I removed from the CRT, everything else (Speed, Pyro, Magneto and Storm) wasn't refuted if I'm not missing something

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

You can apply what has been accepted.

 

[RoTt35]

You can apply what has been accepted.

I'm done, the thread can be closed now