Ford pines buff to 2-C?

[AGENTFURIOUS1117]

His Quantum_destabilizer is a weapon powerful enough to kill bill, in one shot I might add, and is also fast enough for bill not to react to it.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

No. Because Bill isn't 1-A. Also, Bill was caught off guard.

 

[AGENTFURIOUS1117]

Oops sorry about the incorrect number, but are you implying that Bills durability is based on his mental state?, could anyone with a regular lazer gun just shoot him in the head when off guard and kill him?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

No, I'm debunking the "too fast to react to" statement. Bill had no idea he was going to be attacked, so he couldn't react.

 

[Planck69]

One-shotting a Low 2-C isn't a valid justification for 2-C nor are any other casual feats on this level. And if catching someone off-guard when they had no idea that they were being attacked is what you consider a speed feat then I can see several characters jumping to MFTL+ pretty soon.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

The Quantum destabilizer is matter manipulation/existence erasure which is hax. So it wouldn't scale to Bill.

 

[AGENTFURIOUS1117]

Why would it be existince erasure, it made a visible whole through bill with blood and all?

 

[CinnabarManx421]

I think the most likely explanation is that either A) Ford pulled the trigger too early due to the bell surprising him or B) It had to hit Bill directly in his body to kill him, which is what his triangle shaped scope seems to imply.

 

[AGENTFURIOUS1117]

While I agree that it may not scale to bills speed, which is undetermined by the way it cleaved right through him and was deemed by ford capable of killing him. Bills durability is not situational, nothing was weakining him he was as strong as ever.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

It doesn't really scale to his AP or durability, but maybe it could be added that with this weapon he has 4D existance erasure.

 

[AGENTFURIOUS1117]

Perhaps that would be the best option.

 

[Kriskirby]

Except Bill is 3-dimensional and wouldn't give Ford 4D EE.

It also erased part of Bill's hat, which it then regenerated from. Ford does not change tiers via a haxxed weapon capable of killing Low 2-Cs. Erasing something from existence does not justify tier or AP in this case.

Also why do you keep giving kudos to your own comments

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Also why do you keep giving kudos to your own comments

Purely by mistakes. I sometimes accidently press the kudos button when I try to comment on mobile

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Except Bill is 3-dimensional and wouldn't give Ford 4D EE.
It also erased part of Bill's hat, which it then regenerated from. Ford does not change tiers via a haxxed weapon capable of killing Low 2-Cs. Erasing something from existence does not justify tier or AP in this case.

But Bill is Low 2-C, meaning he has 4D power and need 4D power to bypass his durability. Also, Haxes does have dimensional level, or else I could say a 2-A with EE can erase a High 1-B that doesn't resist it.

Low 2-C's are more than conutably infinitly stronger than anything 3D. So Bill should not be affected by EE more than conutably infinite times his AP or durability (and neither does any other Tier 2 or 1 characters by a 3D EE)

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Bill has 4D power but is still physically a 3D being. So the Quantum destabilizer wouldn't be able to erase 4D beings.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bill has 4D power but is still physically a 3D being. So the Quantum destabilizer wouldn't be able to erase 4D beings.

Why wouldn't it be able to do that? If it can erase Low 2-C beings, it can also erase 4 spatially dimensioned characters. Being physically 3D doesn't mean being vulnerable to 3D attacks (Examples: Any tier 2 or higher characters who are still 3D physically)

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

A 3D character with 4D power wouldn't be vulnerable to 3D level AP based attacks but dura negating hax can still affect them.

But being 4D means your composition is beyond that of a 3D being, so unless the hax is proven to work on them, it can't be assumed that it will as otherwise that would be a no limits fallacy.

 

[AGENTFURIOUS1117]

So are you implying that bills durablity is not that of a 4d being why, litterly all the statements regarding bill imply otherwise.

 

[AGENTFURIOUS1117]

He exists beyond time and is considered a threat to a infinite multiverse, why would he be still conisdered a third demensional being?

 

[AGENTFURIOUS1117]

And even then why should we assume that the weapon is matter manipulation/existence erasure there is no statements that imply that, especially when we see that it cut a whole though bill, like a bullet would do, not a existence erasing weapon.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

He exists beyond time and is considered a threat to a infinite multiverse, why would he be still conisdered a third demensional being?

That is exactly my reasoning for 2-A Bill, since "threaten", mean being capable of affectig something on a non-insiginficant scale (and even extremely high 2-B character would not do anything to an infinite multiverse). But let's leave the 2-A discussion alone, since it doesn't matter, because even Low 2-C Bill have 4D durability by the sole reason that he's Low 2-C

 

[AGENTFURIOUS]

There is also a large amplitude of evidence that suggests that the weapon has universal capabilities, like the fact that many of the items he was gathering to make the weapon from the multiverse were outlawed similar to his infinite sided dice. We must atleast accept that the weapon is capable of killing bill, a Low 2-C being, what conclusion would you agree too?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Ford should get Low 2-C with prep, much like how Rick and Dr. Doofenshmirtz are Low 2-C with prep

 

[AGENTFURIOUS]

Prep? There is no evidence to suggest the quantom destalbizer requires prep time besides simply firing the weapon, indeed we see ford pull out the weapon and then use it almost isntantly, I don't believe pressing a button should qualify as prep.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

He exists beyond time and is considered a threat to a infinite multiverse, why would he be still conisdered a third demensional being?

1) He's not "beyond time."

2) Having 4D power =/= being physically 4D.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Gilad Hyperstar The reason why Bill isn't 2-A anymore is because threatening something isn't an AP feat. The context behind Bill being a threat is that he can travel to other universes which would make him a threat to the multiverse.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Prep? There is no evidence to suggest the quantom destalbizer requires prep time besides simply firing the weapon, indeed we see ford pull out the weapon and then use it almost isntantly, I don't believe pressing a button should qualify as prep.

Making the weapon should count as prep, not to mention that he also built the portal who could destroy the universe if used incorrectly

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

2) Having 4D power =/= being physically 4D.

While you are right, having Low 2-C durability requires 4D power and hax to overcome it. There are a lot of Tier 2 characters that are 3D spatially but still require 4D power to hurt them (All Archie Sonic forms, Game Super/Hyper Sonic, DBS and Xeno Goku, Pre-Crisis Superman and many many more)

 

[AGENTFURIOUS]

Why would he have to make the weapon in combat, its standard equiment for him, its like saying king arthur has to remake his sword everytime he goes into combat, he always has the weapon with him.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Why would he have to make the weapon in combat, its standard equiment for him, its like saying king arthur has to remake his sword everytime he goes into combat, he always has the weapon with him.

Hm, you're probably right about that since he is always wearing it with him

 

[AGENTFURIOUS]

What is the solution to the discussion, can we try to find a compromise, why do you argue against the weapon being Low 2-C?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Again, it's not Low 2-C because it's hax. It negates durability.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

While you are right, having Low 2-C durability requires 4D power and hax to overcome it. There are a lot of Tier 2 characters that are 3D spatially but still require 4D power to hurt them (All Archie Sonic forms, Game Super/Hyper Sonic, DBS and Xeno Goku, Pre-Crisis Superman and many many more)

4D power yes, but you don't need 4D hax.

 

[AGENTFURIOUS]

Why? what evidence do you have to suggest that, if it where existence erasure it would have erased bill just by touching him, instead it cuts a visible whole through him, I believe your argument is simply conjecture

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

You can erase a part of someone without erasing them entirely.

 

[AGENTFURIOUS]

Then why did it disintegrate the tree behind bill in its entirety if it only erases a part of the target?

 

[AGENTFURIOUS]

Once again why do you assume its existence erasure?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Then why did it disintegrate the tree behind bill in its entirety if it only erases a part of the target?

If it was Existance Erasure, then Bill should get resistance to it by not being erased right away (and surviving)

 

[AGENTFURIOUS]

I don't think that applies, ford stated that it was capable of killing bill and during their battle in the nightmare realm bill flees from ford to avoid getting killed.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Maybe it only have EE when the target is directly hit with the full power of the weapon. Bill was hit only in his hat