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Okay, so I'm trying another attempt at the Fissionism ability. This time, I have more basis on how to handle it.

While Fissionism can be seen as Duplication, there are two types of Fissionism that aren't.

The most famous examples of Fissionism as a technique are in Steven Universe. The twin Topazes who were under Aquamarine's command used Fissionism as their primary trapping mechanic, having shown to capture Steven's friends by splitting apart and fusing at will. Gem stabilizers are another example of Fissionism, as they force fusion gems like Garnet to unfuse. Alexandrite had split apart the Lapis Lazuli/Jasper fusion Malachite with a well-aimed arrow, though I wouldn't say it was innate; just the result of good aiming. Lastly, both Blue and Yellow Diamond were explicitly shown to unfuse gems; the former having destabilized Alexandrite with a emotional outburst and the latter casually unfusing the fusions she saw with her lightning powers. Of course other cases of fissionism were as a result of straight-up instability.

Of course Fissionism should be possible in the Dragon Ball series as well, but nobody really knows how to even use Fissionism as an ability save for maybe Abo and Cado, and that's a stretch.

Anyway, let's talk about another type of Fissionism. Prior to the debut of Cionic Organism, Eliatopia had a character named Moonchyllus, who had split her will/lifeforce into parts and used those parts as the life energy of Logons. Another example was brought up in Dargoo Faust's CRT of Cautious Hero, where he had written that Seiya can share his senses with his earth constructs.

While I ain't sure if this qualifies as Fissionism, there is some hivemind behavior that is similar to such. One example of this is the Scornet Maestro from Pikmin 3, who controls its Scornets with its musical cues. Should the Scornet Maestro die, so would the entire colony. Definitely a hardcore example of hivemind behavior.

So that would make two types of Fissionism that aren't duplication.:

1. Splitting Fusions
2. Splitting Parts of Yourself with Other Entities or Lifeforms.

What do you think?
 
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Confluctor

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I wouldn't be personally against this ability, especially since I know a number of characters who can get this ability as it's hard to list certain feats otherwise. However, this was attempted two times before iirc and rejected both times.

@Antvasima
 

Antvasima

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It still seems too similar to the duplication ability. Maybe we can list it as a variation of the ability within the currently existing powers page in question?
 

Arnoldstone18

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It still seems too similar to the duplication ability. Maybe we can list it as a variation of the ability within the currently existing powers page in question?
I don’t think it’s like Duplication, it’s like separation of two or more different entities (in very few cases it may look like duplication only if it involves the separation of two identical bodies). It’s an ability that counters fusionism. And there is a good amount of characters I know that have this power like Vegeta.

It will be difficult to categorize separation feats, without it.

edit: oops sorry didn’t realize this was staff discussion.
 

Antvasima

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Is it significant and generic enough to deserve its own page though, or can it just be mentioned in the powers and abilities sections of the few characters that have the ability?
 
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Is it significant and generic enough to deserve its own page though, or can it just be mentioned in the powers and abilities sections of the few characters that have the ability?
Significant? Yes.

Generic? I wouldn't use THAT boring of a term. I had written out two forms of fissionism, three if counting hivemind behavior (which I'm personally uncertain of since hiveminds are a tricky subject to handle in on themselves. Scornet Maestro can be a Fissionism-based hivemind since the entire Scornet colony is reliant on the Maestro itself for life whereas the Maestro isn't reliant on its colony for anything but a method of attack). First form is the act of de-fusing something, either oneself or another entity. It was most notable in Steven Universe, but Trunks had de-fused Fusion Zamasu using his sword (although it really didn't work in his favor).

The other type is basically splitting parts of yourself with another completely separate being, like Moonchyllus putting her life force into tree creatures and Seiya sharing his senses with earth constructs.
I wouldn't be personally against this ability, especially since I know a number of characters who can get this ability as it's hard to list certain feats otherwise. However, this was attempted two times before iirc and rejected both times.

@Antvasima
I know that; I was one of those who attempted it. It's like a game of Ability Whack-a-Mole.
 

Arnoldstone18

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Is it significant and generic enough to deserve its own page though, or can it just be mentioned in the powers and abilities sections of the few characters that have the ability?
Yes, It is almost as significant and generic as Fusionism. Definitely more significant than some of our P&A.

There are many characters capable of fissionism. In fact, off the top of my head, I can name a lot.

1. Vegeta's spirit fission (can undo fusions)
2. Bruno Bucciarati (the ability to open zippers in almost anything solid thus splitting the solid into its constituents. He was able to split his own body into its parts)
3. Captain Atom (can split atoms)
4. Ben 10 (via the Omnitrix, capable of separating the DNA making the hybrids, well a hybrid, thus turning them back to their original species)
5. Ydrat people who taught Vegeta his ability.
6. Many Characters in Steven Universe (many examples are mentioned in the OP too)
7. Josuke (capable of reverting mixtures back into its constituents)
8. Wonder Woman (Capable of splitting atoms with her sword)
9. Ermes Costello
10. Buggy's Devil Fruit
11. Dr. Manhatten (Capable of splitting the union of quarks)

Below is a draft I propose Ant Sir and Flashing Lights. It is similar to the Fusionism page. I hope you guys like it, let me know your thoughts and opinions

Fissionism

A character's ability to separate anything into two or more parts. The user can undo fusions of objects, powers, emotions, concepts, living beings, etc. turning them into multiple units. Identical units should warrant a Duplication rating instead. Some Fission attacks negate durability.

Possible Uses
  • Splitting Alchemy into Magic and Chemistry Manipulation, two distinct powers.
  • Splitting atoms, also known as Nuclear Fission.
  • reversing Matter Melding
  • Separating cooked food into its ingredients
  • Undoing Chimerism, Hybrids, etc., into people, animals, etc.
  • Splitting dualities on a conceptual level.
  • Firing a large attack that separates into smaller versions of the same attack to cover a larger area
Types
  • Duplication
  • DNA Fission
  • Nuclear Fission
  • depolymerization
  • Omnifission
  • Power Fission (Powers)
  • Spiritual Fissure (Spiritual)
  • Fission Inducement
  • Nuclear Transmutation
  • DNA unwinding
  • Fission Entity Physiology
  • Soul Unbinding
  • Secession
  • Digital Fissure
  • Weapon Decomposition
  • Split Attack
Limitations
  • Not all Fissions lead to good results.
  • Separating fused emotions might cure mental disorders.
  • Users of Immutability cannot be affected.

Users​

 
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Arnoldstone18

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I’m sorry were Divided Mind, Matter Melding* and Combat Merging a thing here? I can’t seem to find them. The fusion page might need some revisions too because it still mentions them.
 

KLOL506

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Devil May Cry's Vergil, especially his Yamato, also comes to mind, which is straight up conceptual (Because souls in DMC are conceptual as well), since he separated his two halves, human and demon, to gain more power in DMC5 by stabbing himself with the Yamato. The Yamato can even separate power from heart, and restore people from being melted into with other souls, it also straight up allows changing of memories and even gives them a full physical body and form.

Both Rebellion and Yamato already have Fusionism for being able to fuse with Dante and Vergil respectively, and also helping unleash their true Demon Selves. So Fissionism as an extra for Yamato shouldn't be too bad.
 
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Arnoldstone18

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Arnoldstone18 made a more convincing argument for Fissionism than I could.
No The OP is excellent, especially your perfect examples because it highlighted CRTs that had a problem rating characters. There are profiles that ignore fission abilities, add a text instead, or just call it durability negation. You proved just how much we need this ability. I only put out my opinion in support of yours.
 
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Fissionism seems like a hive mind users ability like this alien who himself has few powers but after merging with his species have a variety of them.
 

DarkDragonMedeus

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So an ability that consists of the ability to split atoms? Well, it's not limited to duplication but could also be a form of atomic destruction. And I know one of those Leviathans from Metroid used what appears to be Nuclear Fission to split the all atoms/mass energy of planet Aether. But it does still seem like a subpower of matter manipulation.

Though not against the idea, but I'd like to hear what DontTalkDT thinks about this.
 

Damage3245

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If this is about undoing fusions / splitting apart characters into separate characters, then Vegeta from DBS and the Demon King from Seven Deadly Sins would qualify for that.
 

KLOL506

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If this is about undoing fusions / splitting apart characters into separate characters, then Vegeta from DBS and the Demon King from Seven Deadly Sins would qualify for that.
Vergil and his sword Yamato from Devil May Cry too. He literally turned himself into his two sides, demonic and human form, even split his memories, altered them and gave them a full blown physical form, soul and body, and the Yamato can even manipulate and melt souls into one and whatnot.
 
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KLOL506

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So an ability that consists of the ability to split atoms? Well, it's not limited to duplication but could also be a form of atomic destruction. And I know one of those Leviathans from Metroid used what appears to be Nuclear Fission to split the all atoms/mass energy of planet Aether. But it does still seem like a subpower of matter manipulation.

Though not against the idea, but I'd like to hear what DontTalkDT thinks about this.
Not just included to that, not even just splitting your original self into brand new people, it even allows you to split yourself into your fundamental concepts, like fear, anger, sadness or something, or even your human and demon parts or even give your memories form and split them from your actual self. And maybe even your own souls.
 

DontTalkDT

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Yes, It is almost as significant and generic as Fusionism. Definitely more significant than some of our P&A.

There are many characters capable of fissionism. In fact, off the top of my head, I can name a lot.

1. Vegeta's spirit fission (can undo fusions)
2. Bruno Bucciarati (the ability to open zippers in almost anything solid thus splitting the solid into its constituents. He was able to split his own body into its parts)
3. Captain Atom (can split atoms)
4. Ben 10 (via the Omnitrix, capable of separating the DNA making the hybrids, well a hybrid, thus turning them back to their original species)
5. Ydrat people who taught Vegeta his ability.
6. Many Characters in Steven Universe (many examples are mentioned in the OP too)
7. Josuke (capable of reverting mixtures back into its constituents)
8. Wonder Woman (Capable of splitting atoms with her sword)
9. Ermes Costello
10. Buggy's Devil Fruit
11. Dr. Manhatten (Capable of splitting the union of quarks)

Below is a draft I propose Ant Sir and Flashing Lights. It is similar to the Fusionism page. I hope you guys like it, let me know your thoughts and opinions
Those sound like a bunch of completely different and unrelated abilities that just so happen to involve splitting something. More so an effect of several different abilities than an ability in itself.

It's like "red manipulation" the ability to manipulate red things. Technically tons of characters manipulate red things. But the things in question really have nothing practical in common, which would let it make sense to list them together as one ability.
Is there really a good reason to see power null on fusion powers and splitting atoms as related? For me listing the first as limited power null and the latter as limited matter manipulation makes more sense.
And where would the power even start if we say splitting something in any context qualifies? Buggy, for example, is technically just telekinetically cutting his limbs off and then uses body control (or something) to move them afterwards. The actual splitting part of the ability could be replicated by any telekinetic that can mentally cut things.
 

Antvasima

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Those sound like a bunch of completely different and unrelated abilities that just so happen to involve splitting something. More so an effect of several different abilities than an ability in itself.
I agree with this. Thank you for helping out.
 

Arnoldstone18

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Those sound like a bunch of completely different and unrelated abilities that just so happen to involve splitting something.

It's like "red manipulation" the ability to manipulate red things. Technically tons of characters manipulate red things. But the things in question really have nothing practical in common, which would let it make sense to list them together as one ability.
Is there really a good reason to see power null on fusion powers and splitting atoms as related? For me listing the first as limited power null and the latter as limited matter manipulation makes more sense.
And where would the power even start if we say splitting something in any context qualifies? Buggy, for example, is technically just telekinetically cutting his limbs off and then uses body control (or something) to move them afterwards. The actual splitting part of the ability could be replicated by any telekinetic that can mentally cut things.

I beg to differ. First I will use the example you called out, then I will go through each of the characters I mentioned.

1. You called out buggy, you say he just telekinetically cutting off his body. What is the difference between that and fission? Yes a ton of characters manipulate red things but they can not manipulate the color. Espers can tear off the enemy's body parts and telekinetically control them. Fission is not simply tearing, as tearing will lead to damage. Buggy is suffers no damage.

Fissionism and Fusionism via Bara Bara no mi (Can seperate and fuse body parts)

Look at how concise this is compared to what is on his page...

I will explain the rest of the examples on another post.
 

Arnoldstone18

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Vegeta

He can literally undo fusions. That is literally fission.

Bruno Bucciarati

Bruno literally splits solid and himself using a zipper. WHAT ABILITY WOULD YOU CALL THIS? There is nothing on the P&A to describe his ability on his page so a text was used instead. This problem is easily solved with "Fissionism".

Captain Atom

His ability is literally nuclear fission.

Ben 10

The Omnitrix can literally split and extract DNA from a literal hybrid made up of fused DNAs. It is the fission of biological fusion.


Ydrat people

They taught Vegeta fission

Josuke

capable of reverting mixtures back into their constituents. Like food into its ingredients.


Wonder Woman (Capable of splitting atoms with her sword)

Can perform atomic fission with her sword. What else would you call that if not fission?

Dr. Manhatten

Can literally perform atomic fission too.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of these characters perform fission.


I agree with this. Thank you for helping out.
Ant Sir, please you have to understand how this is important. This will solve a lot of issues.

Benefits

1. Further limiting texts without categories on profiles.
2. Further limiting the redundant use of "Durability Negation" in both AP section and P&A section, thus only limiting it to AP section where it is most commonly used.

I understand that a part of it is similar to duplication, but please acknoledge that splitting into unidentical parts also exist in fiction. And we can't ignore that. Have you seen my draft Sir?
 

KLOL506

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Vegeta

He can literally undo fusions. That is literally fission.

Bruno Bucciarati

Bruno literally splits solid and himself using a zipper. WHAT ABILITY WOULD YOU CALL THIS? There is nothing on the P&A to describe his ability on his page so a text was used instead. This problem is easily solved with "Fissionism".

Captain Atom

His ability is literally nuclear fission.

Ben 10

The Omnitrix can literally split and extract DNA from a literal hybrid made up of fused DNAs. It is the fission of biological fusion.


Ydrat people

They taught Vegeta fission

Josuke

capable of reverting mixtures back into their constituents. Like food into its ingredients.


Wonder Woman (Capable of splitting atoms with her sword)

Can perform atomic fission with her sword. What else would you call that if not fission?

Dr. Manhatten

Can literally perform atomic fission too.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of these characters perform fission.



Ant Sir, please you have to understand how this is important. This will solve a lot of issues.

Benefits

1. Further limiting texts without categories on profiles.
2. Further limiting the redundant use of "Durability Negation" in both AP section and P&A section, thus only limiting it to AP section where it is most commonly used.

I understand that a part of it is similar to duplication, but please acknoledge that splitting into unidentical parts also exist in fiction. And we can't ignore that. Have you seen my draft Sir?
Imagine not adding Vergil and Yamato to the damn list, they're literally one of the best examples of Fissionism on a conceptual level

FImeS6o.png
 

Arnoldstone18

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Imagine not adding Vergil and Yamato to the damn list, they're literally one of the best examples of Fissionism on a conceptual level
Yeah

My bad, hehe.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vergil

Can split fused physiology, and even on a conceptual level

Yamato

Can split souls


The point is there are many characters who need this ability.
 
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Okay, so far this is looking to be the closest thing Fissionism got to being accepted. Nothing definitive, tho.

I wonder if this can be turned into a GIF if it does get accepted:

 

KLOL506

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Yeah

My bad, hehe.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vergil

Can split fused physiology, and even on a conceptual level, can split power from the heart

Yamato

Can split souls and even fuse them into other souls, split memories and give them brand new physical bodies, can separate man from demon, power from heart, yada yada yada (Oh, souls in DMC are conceptual in nature)
FTFY

The point is there are many characters who need this ability.
Agreed.
 
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This is an actual ability, and definitely more valid and founded than quite a few we currently have. I don't see the problem here.
 
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I am getting lost on this abilities here. Like is this meant to be opposite of fusionism, no? So, what's Cap doing here?
I mean Immortality, Purification, and such are split into several different types for a reason, even though the Immortality page STILL doesn't account for curses, like wtf Vs Battles Wiki?
 

Nehz_XZX

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I mean Immortality, Purification, and such are split into several different types for a reason, even though the Immortality page STILL doesn't account for curses, like wtf Vs Battles Wiki?
Are you talking about Immortality that has been bestowed to someone as a curse?
 

Arnoldstone18

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I am getting lost on this abilities here. Like is this meant to be opposite of fusionism, no? So, what's Cap doing here?

Yeah the opposite of nuclear fusion. Cap can split atoms into subatomic particles.

The list is under spoilers, the one you responded to is just me responding to DDT just to be clear.
 

Confluctor

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He's also got bio fission but ye, was just getting lost with the new additions to the thread.
 

Antvasima

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Ant Sir, please you have to understand how this is important. This will solve a lot of issues.

Benefits

1. Further limiting texts without categories on profiles.
2. Further limiting the redundant use of "Durability Negation" in both AP section and P&A section, thus only limiting it to AP section where it is most commonly used.

I understand that a part of it is similar to duplication, but please acknoledge that splitting into unidentical parts also exist in fiction. And we can't ignore that. Have you seen my draft Sir?
My apologies, but the issue, as DontTalk explained earlier, is that several of these abilities work based on very different premises. Undoing fusions, creating nuclear explosions, and cutting entities in half on a spiritual level are not really the same thing, so unless somebody can provide a very good definition of a defining mechanic, the page in question does not seem relevant to our purposes.
 
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I mean

Agree: @KLOL506 (@Flashlight237 @Arnoldstone18 @Pikaman @Greatsage13th @XSOULOFCINDERX @Axxtentacle)

Disagree: @DontTalkDT @Antvasima

Don’t have an issue with: @DarkDragonMedeus @Confluctor

So we have 1 staff agreement, 2 staff who don’t have an issue with it, and 6 members who agree, vs 2 staff members against the proposition

I do not think it would be reflective of the wiki’s staff nor overall membership to reject the proposition based on the input that has currently been amassed
 

Antvasima

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Well, with two bureaucrats against the suggested revision and one calc group member for it, it is currently extremely unlikely to be applied, but I can send a notification request to the rest of our administrators if you want to receive further input.
 
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Well, with two bureaucrats against the suggested revision and one calc group member for it, it is currently extremely unlikely to be applied, but I can send a notification request to the rest of our administrators if you want to receive further input.
That would be great, I don’t think 2 bureaucrats (not to discredit the fact they are extremely trusted, important and knowledgable members of the community) should overrule 9 other people, 3 of those staff, who either don’t have issues with the addition or outright approve it, there’s only so much extra weight you can give to certain votes (again, not to go against the importance of staff and bureaucrat opinion in discussions like these, which is always going to be of extreme importance and influence)
 

Arnoldstone18

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My apologies, but the issue, as DontTalk explained earlier, is that several of these abilities work based on very different premises. Undoing fusions, creating nuclear explosions, and cutting entities in half on a spiritual level are not really the same thing, so unless somebody can provide a very good definition of a defining mechanic, the page in question does not seem relevant to our purposes.

The premises all revolve around the concept of fission.

PREMISES THAT REVOLVE AROUND FISSION

- Undoing fusions ✅ -fission

- creating nuclear explosions ❌- a mere byproduct of fission, it’s not fission itself. So this will not be a criteria of fission. Splitting atoms*✅ will be considered instead because an atom is a fusion of its respective subatomic particles.

- Cutting entities in half ❌ - this isn’t Fissionism, it’s an AP feat. One is destroying an entity not creating a new one. Fission is only relevant to fusions. A solution to this is simply adding a note that cutting entities in half doesn’t count as fusion. Would this be okay?

- Seperating fusions of physiology ✅ - One can seperate a being of dragon, demon, human physiologies into 3 seperate entities with each physiology. Perfect.

- Seperating fusions of DNA ✅ - In a perfect scenario, separation of a fusion of other different nucleic acids will sometimes cure mutation.

- Seperating a fusion of weapons or machines ✅ - eg a user can undo Megazords

- Seperation of body, soul and/or mind, other fused entities etc ✅- literally seperating the Mind from body, not instinctive reactions. Separating demonic soul from body to undo possession. Etc. This also includes fission of fused memories, emotions, and other concepts

Solution

Add all the “❌” to limitations or emphasize in definition that it doesn’t count as Fissionism

All the “✅” added under types to give a general idea of what counts. Because they all fall under the same premise.
 
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KLOL506

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The premises all revolve around the concept of fission.

PREMISES THAT REVOLVE AROUND FISSION

- Undoing fusions ✅ -fission

- creating nuclear explosions ❌- a mere byproduct of fission, it’s not fission itself. So this will not be a criteria of fission. Splitting atoms*✅ will be considered instead because an atom is a fusion of its respective subatomic particles.

- Cutting entities in half ❌ - this isn’t Fissionism, it’s an AP feat. One is destroying an entity not creating a new one. Fission is only relevant to fusions, mixtures and those who can duplication. A solution to this is simply adding a note that cutting entities in half doesn’t count as fusion. Would this be okay?

- Seperating fusions of physiology ✅ - One can seperate a being of dragon, demon, human physiologies into 3 seperate entities with each physiology. Perfect.

- Seperating fusions of DNA ✅ - In a perfect scenario, separation of a fusion of other different nucleic acids will sometimes cure mutation.

- Seperating a fusion of weapons or machines ✅ - eg a user can undo Megazords

- Seperation of body, soul and/or mind ✅❓- literally seperating the Mind from body, not instinctive reactions. Separating demonic soul from body to undo possession. Etc.

Solution

Add all the “❌” to limitations or emphasize in definition that it doesn’t count as Fissionism

All the “✅” added under types to give a general idea of what counts. Because they all fall under the same premise.
Body, soul, mind, even the underlying concepts like emotions, memories and stuff.
 

Andytrenom

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I'm fine with fissionism as a concept. As long as it's clear it's about separating aspects of something making up a whole rather than cloning.

A lot of powers have variations in their mechanism and working but are united by the general concept. Such as mind manipulation having the possibility of being biological or metaphysical. So I don't see that point being very relevant.
That said it shouldn't be worded in a way that these seem like general abilities people with Fissionism have, but rather that they are different varieties of Fissionism that appear in fiction
 

Arnoldstone18

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As long as it's clear it's about separating aspects of something making up a whole rather than cloning.

Fissionism

A character's ability to separate anything into two or more parts. The user can undo fusions of objects, powers, emotions, concepts, living beings, etc. turning them into multiple units. Identical units should warrant a Duplication rating instead. Some Fission attacks negate durability.
 

Elizhaa

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Just cases like nuclear fission sound like matter manipulation and seem redundant as Fissionism.
If such redundant cases are taken care of, I am fine with Fissionism. I guess characters like Rimuru and Yuuki would be good examples of ability via Venom's ability.
 

SamanPatou

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Seems good, as it applies to quite a lot of situations, and currently the wiki doesn't even have a solution to things like this, and even similar cases of people splitting fusions, materials etc.. end up being circumveneted by half-solutions.


We must be careful to not mistake blatant examples of matter manip, body control and duplication for this, but I think quite some characters can just split people, materials, entire locations and immaterial things via an ability that either doesn't really qualify for other powers we have or is covered by something else just because we don't have a clear answer.
 

SamanPatou

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2. Bruno Bucciarati (the ability to open zippers in almost anything solid thus splitting the solid into its constituents. He was able to split his own body into its parts)
10. Buggy's Devil Fruit
These two are just biological and body control, for example.
 
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Agree: @KLOL506 @Elizhaa (sans nuclear fission) @Confluctor @LordTracer @Andytrenom @SamanPatou (@Flashlight237 @Arnoldstone18 @Pikaman @Greatsage13th @XSOULOFCINDERX @Axxtentacle)

Disagree: @DontTalkDT @Antvasima

Don’t have an issue with: @DarkDragonMedeus

6:2 (12:2) with DDM not having an issue with the addition

some extra input needed ofc but I think this might just push through and get added
Well actually with that vote above, 3:1 staff input, 6:1 Overall input, 9 staff have given input, can this be applied?
 

Arnoldstone18

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These two are just biological and body control, for example.
Wait I realized you copied Bruno

What ability is putting a zipper on almost anything to split them apart? I know you said Bio manipulation because he used the ability on his own body. but shouldn't putting a zipper to separate anything count as fissionism?
 

Antvasima

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I'm fine with fissionism as a concept. As long as it's clear it's about separating aspects of something making up a whole rather than cloning.

A lot of powers have variations in their mechanism and working but are united by the general concept. Such as mind manipulation having the possibility of being biological or metaphysical. So I don't see that point being very relevant.

That said it shouldn't be worded in a way that these seem like general abilities people with Fissionism have, but rather that they are different varieties of Fissionism that appear in fiction
Just cases like nuclear fission sound like matter manipulation and seem redundant as Fissionism.
If such redundant cases are taken care of, I am fine with Fissionism. I guess characters like Rimuru and Yuuki would be good examples of ability via Venom's ability.
Seems good, as it applies to quite a lot of situations, and currently the wiki doesn't even have a solution to things like this, and even similar cases of people splitting fusions, materials etc.. end up being circumveneted by half-solutions.

We must be careful to not mistake blatant examples of matter manip, body control and duplication for this, but I think quite some characters can just split people, materials, entire locations and immaterial things via an ability that either doesn't really qualify for other powers we have or is covered by something else just because we don't have a clear answer.
Well, if somebody can write a draft in which all of the above concerns are taken into account, I suppose that it is probably fine.

What do you think, @DontTalkDT ?
 

DontTalkDT

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Personally I still not like it. I think it makes as much sense as having a "destruction" page.
Vegeta

He can literally undo fusions. That is literally fission.

Bruno Bucciarati

Bruno literally splits solid and himself using a zipper. WHAT ABILITY WOULD YOU CALL THIS? There is nothing on the P&A to describe his ability on his page so a text was used instead. This problem is easily solved with "Fissionism".

Captain Atom

His ability is literally nuclear fission.

Ben 10

The Omnitrix can literally split and extract DNA from a literal hybrid made up of fused DNAs. It is the fission of biological fusion.


Ydrat people

They taught Vegeta fission

Josuke

capable of reverting mixtures back into their constituents. Like food into its ingredients.


Wonder Woman (Capable of splitting atoms with her sword)

Can perform atomic fission with her sword. What else would you call that if not fission?

Dr. Manhatten

Can literally perform atomic fission too.

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All of these characters perform fission.
I meant 'red object manipulation' in my example if you wanna get nitpicky.

To your examples:
Vegeta: I call it powernull of fusions.
Bruno: Zipper creation? His zippers don't simply split things apart. Their effect is more complex, like how he can make a zipper on a floor and slip inside.
Atom: Matter manipulation, as splitting atoms is a primary effect of that ability.
Ben: Biological Manipulation.
Josuke: That is actually misrepresenting his ability, which is actually to revert thing to their prior state, not to split things.
Wonder Woman: Matter manipulation.
Dr. Manhattan: Matter Manipulation, too.
Buggy: I call it body control.

By what's suggested here I can claim that I have fissionism for my ability to separate an egg into egg white, yolk and shell.

Also
A character's ability to separate anything into two or more parts. The user can undo fusions of objects, powers, emotions, concepts, living beings, etc. turning them into multiple units.
None of the examples fulfils this definition of the power, as none of them can do all of the listed applications. In general saying 'separate anything' is hasty generalization waiting to happen.
 

KLOL506

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Personally I still not like it. I think it makes as much sense as having a "destruction" page.

I meant 'red object manipulation' in my example if you wanna get nitpicky.

To your examples:
Vegeta: I call it powernull of fusions.
Bruno: Zipper creation? His zippers don't simply split things apart. Their effect is more complex, like how he can make a zipper on a floor and slip inside.
Atom: Matter manipulation, as splitting atoms is a primary effect of that ability.
Ben: Biological Manipulation.
Josuke: That is actually misrepresenting his ability, which is actually to revert thing to their prior state, not to split things.
Wonder Woman: Matter manipulation.
Dr. Manhattan: Matter Manipulation, too.
Buggy: I call it body control.

By what's suggested here I can claim that I have fissionism for my ability to separate an egg into egg white, yolk and shell.

Also

None of the examples fulfils this definition of the power, as none of them can do all of the listed applications. In general saying 'separate anything' is hasty generalization waiting to happen.
What about Vergil?
Devil May Cry's Vergil, especially his Yamato, also comes to mind, which is straight up conceptual, since he separated his two halves, human and demon, to gain more power in DMC5 by stabbing himself with the Yamato. The Yamato can even separate power from heart, and restore people from being melted into with other souls, it also straight up allows changing of one's memories and even gives them a full physical body and form.
Oh, Souls are conceptual in nature in DMC.
 

DontTalkDT

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What about Vergil?

Oh, Souls are conceptual in nature in DMC.
Concept Manipulation for splitting concepts I guess? Given, I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to imagine under splitting concepts. Splitting himself into a demon part and a human part would be biological manipulation, I guess.

Also, counter question: Would having fissionism mean that his concept manipulation gets deleted form the page and characters who resist the blades concept splitting stuff will not have resistance to concept manipulation, but just fissionism resistance instead? And, if we do replace it, would you say Fissionism is self-explanatory enough that parts of the explanations can be left out?
 
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Concept Manipulation for splitting concepts I guess?
That works perfectly for how the ability works, thanks.
Also, counter question: Would having fissionism mean that his concept manipulation gets deleted form the page and characters who resist the blades concept splitting stuff will not have resistance to concept manipulation, but just fissionism resistance instead? And, if we do replace it, would you say Fissionism is self-explanatory enough that parts of the explanations can be left out?
Nah, if anything fissionism gets the "conceptual nature" boost as it works on concepts and all that shit. Idk about ya'all but I rather have a very good explanation of the ability and how it works than let parts out.
 

DontTalkDT

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Nah, if anything fissionism gets the "conceptual nature" boost as it works on concepts and all that shit. Idk about ya'all but I rather have a very good explanation of the ability and how it works than let parts out.
And that's kinda the thing isn't it? Fissionism is so vague, we will need to retain all the explanations we currently have on the pages when adding the ability. It's questionable if it should replace the existing abilities at all and it makes the resistance situation more complicated.

In other words we kinda gain nothing by having such a page.
 
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And that's kinda the thing isn't it? Fissionism is so vague, we will need to retain all the explanations we currently have on the pages when adding the ability. It's questionable if it should replace the existing abilities at all and it makes the resistance situation more complicated.

In other words we kinda gain nothing by having such a page.
From my PoV is like how other abilities can achieve similar results. Law hax and concept hax to mind hax people for example. If anything us, like the indexing forum we are supposed to be, should have this ability and apply it to the verses that fit the bill to what is proposed.
 
And that's kinda the thing isn't it? Fissionism is so vague, we will need to retain all the explanations we currently have on the pages when adding the ability. It's questionable if it should replace the existing abilities at all and it makes the resistance situation more complicated.

In other words we kinda gain nothing by having such a page.
Not necessarily. From what I understand the page isn't about an ability that just splits stuff into baser components.

It does it in such a say that resultant products are their own self contained objects/characters.

Say for example if you split Gogeta or Vegito into Goku and Vegeta, then that would be Fissionism. Since the baser parts have their own physical form/attributes, souls, minds, identities etc. A simple type of matter separation, soul cutting and/or mind fracturing combined wouldn't achive this feat for example.
 

DontTalkDT

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Not necessarily. From what I understand the page isn't about an ability that just splits stuff into baser components.

It does it in such a say that resultant products are their own self contained objects/characters.
Splitting atoms is supposed to be part of this. Splitting an atom into two halfs is literally just cutting in small. Heck, anything that splits something into two halfs splits it into two self-contained objects. Cutting a hand off of someone splits it into the two self-contained objects of person and hand.

Say for example if you split Gogeta or Vegito into Goku and Vegeta, then that would be Fissionism. Since the baser parts have their own physical form/attributes, souls, minds, identities etc. A simple type of matter separation, soul cutting and/or mind fracturing combined wouldn't achive this feat for example.
That example still just sounds like nullifying a fusion to me.

Also gotta disagree. In my eyes physically, spiritually and mentally separating them would achieve that result.

From my PoV is like how other abilities can achieve similar results. Law hax and concept hax to mind hax people for example. If anything us, like the indexing forum we are supposed to be, should have this ability and apply it to the verses that fit the bill to what is proposed.
There is such a thing as being to general. As said, by that logic "red object manipulation" should be a thing because lots of characters can manipulate red objects and there even are some red objects that are somewhat hard to precisely fit into other abilities (red balloons for example). Or take sphere manipulation as an example that would be equally (in)valid.

I mean really as it stands this ability makes no clear distinction that wouldn't allow me to list fissionism for every fire manipulator that can split flames in two non-identical parts.

What 'Indexing Forum' is concerned I remind that we are not the superpower wiki. Our goal is not to list every possible superpower. We always aimed at keeping it to the most essential powers that are in common use, as they help with explaining what characters can do. We have no interest in the power pages beyond them aiding in explaining the characters. Which this power IMO fails to do.
 
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DontTalk makes the most sense above, as usual. My apologies to other members here.

Do you also agree with DontTalk, @DarkDragonMedeus ? I saw that you liked his post above.
 

Arnoldstone18

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Personally I still not like it. I think it makes as much sense as having a "destruction" page.

I meant 'red object manipulation' in my example if you wanna get nitpicky.

To your examples:
Vegeta: I call it powernull of fusions.
Bruno: Zipper creation? His zippers don't simply split things apart. Their effect is more complex, like how he can make a zipper on a floor and slip inside.
Atom: Matter manipulation, as splitting atoms is a primary effect of that ability.
Ben: Biological Manipulation.
Josuke: That is actually misrepresenting his ability, which is actually to revert thing to their prior state, not to split things.
Wonder Woman: Matter manipulation.
Dr. Manhattan: Matter Manipulation, too.
Buggy: I call it body control.

By what's suggested here I can claim that I have fissionism for my ability to separate an egg into egg white, yolk and shell.

Also

None of the examples fulfils this definition of the power, as none of them can do all of the listed applications. In general saying 'separate anything' is hasty generalization waiting to happen.
I just woke up, and I have a ton of stuff to do today.

so can you look at this message below, I noticed you haven’t addressed it yet.

I will respond to everything in another post later today.


The premises all revolve around the concept of fission.

PREMISES THAT REVOLVE AROUND FISSION

- Undoing fusions ✅ -fission

- creating nuclear explosions ❌- a mere byproduct of fission, it’s not fission itself. So this will not be a criteria of fission. Splitting atoms*✅ will be considered instead because an atom is a fusion of its respective subatomic particles.

- Cutting entities in half ❌ - this isn’t Fissionism, it’s an AP feat. One is destroying an entity not creating a new one. Fission is only relevant to fusions. A solution to this is simply adding a note that cutting entities in half doesn’t count as fusion. Would this be okay?

- Seperating fusions of physiology ✅ - One can seperate a being of dragon, demon, human physiologies into 3 seperate entities with each physiology. Perfect.

- Seperating fusions of DNA ✅ - In a perfect scenario, separation of a fusion of other different nucleic acids will sometimes cure mutation.

- Seperating a fusion of weapons or machines ✅ - eg a user can undo Megazords

- Seperation of body, soul and/or mind, other fused entities etc ✅- literally seperating the Mind from body, not instinctive reactions. Separating demonic soul from body to undo possession. Etc. This also includes fission of fused memories, emotions, and other concepts

Solution

Add all the “❌” to limitations or emphasize in definition that it doesn’t count as Fissionism

All the “✅” added under types to give a general idea of what counts. Because they all fall under the same premise.

Edit: I also want to mention that a lot of our P&A are vague/broad, which contains other P&A under “types” For example. Mind Manipulation is under Madness manipulation (type 2), possession, biological manipulation (physically controlling the brain directly), technology manipulation (hacking AI), Conceptual manipulation and so on.

So some Fission feats being similar to some (insert broad term) manipulation is perfectly fine and and should be listed under types too just like mind manipulation. Fusionism also has this “problem” but we casually ignore it for the sake of disagreeing with Fissionism

If that is a problem then so many of our power and abilities should not exist. Brb.
 
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Also, the vote count from staff is still pretty in favour of adding the ability, and members are overwhelmingly in favour of it, I understand the importance of Bureaucrat votes, but they’re not vetoes
 

Antvasima

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Bureaucrat votes do actually have more say than other individual staff members during content revisions, and particularly staff forum threads tied to changing minor wiki policies (such as this one), but they can usually be overruled by a sufficient number of other staff, yes.

If there is a suggestion for a very big change to how our wiki fundamentally works we technically have vetos though, but we extremely seldom use it unless we feel absolutely forced to due to thinking that what is suggested is very harmful for the wiki as a whole, and this is not that kind of revision thread.

However, even so, this is still two bureaucrats and one super moderator (equal to consultants in staff status as I see it) who disagree with this suggestion, so I don't see how it has sufficient consensus behind it to be accepted yet.
 

Arnoldstone18

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Personally I still not like it. I think it makes as much sense as having a "destruction" page.

I meant 'red object manipulation' in my example if you wanna get nitpicky.

To your examples:
Vegeta: I call it powernull of fusions.
Bruno: Zipper creation? His zippers don't simply split things apart. Their effect is more complex, like how he can make a zipper on a floor and slip inside.
Atom: Matter manipulation, as splitting atoms is a primary effect of that ability.
Ben: Biological Manipulation.
Josuke: That is actually misrepresenting his ability, which is actually to revert thing to their prior state, not to split things.
Wonder Woman: Matter manipulation.
Dr. Manhattan: Matter Manipulation, too.
Buggy: I call it body control.

By what's suggested here I can claim that I have fissionism for my ability to separate an egg into egg white, yolk and shell.

Also

None of the examples fulfils this definition of the power, as none of them can do all of the listed applications. In general saying 'separate anything' is hasty generalization waiting to happen.

Let me start by saying I already acknowledged that some of my examples could be wrong but they are merely examples I thought off on the spot so ofcourse some would be wrong. Many of us have brought forth brilliant examples so please don't ignore us or dismiss us with an umbrella term (e.g. "biological manipulation", "conceptual manipulation", "reality warping" etc.) ignoring the fact that there are many P&A on this wiki that are under these umbrella terms.

First I will show you how some of my examples match the definition and how your logic isnt applied to every popular P&A here. I will skip over controversial ones because I am not trying to debate why said characters have Fissionism. This is the thread for that. However I will address the blatantly obvious ones.

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FISSIONISM

A character's supernatural ability to separate anything into two or more parts. The user can also undo fusions of objects, powers, emotions, concepts, living beings, etc., turning them into multiple units. Identical units should warrant a Duplication rating instead. Please note that undoing fusions through physical means such as sharp tools, ripping apart things, etc., do not count. As they are merely a result of the sharpness or force of the means and not a supernatural. Although there are cases where the sharpness tends to be supernatural, in which case those tools should qualify.

I was going to show this to @Antvasima before you responded so here is the improved definition for you and everyone to refer to.

Now,

Vegeta

Vegeta does not negate or nullify Moro's powers, He simply separates anything Moro is fused/fusing with. This falls under the definition of Fissionism above.

Fissionism via Forced Spirit Fission (Capable of separating fusions)
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Bruno's Zipper

It is complex, this is why we apply two or more abilities to one superpower. Bruno has the power to split things with his zipper, fuse things, and create pocket dimensions, How do you rate that? Easy.

Creation, Fissionism, Fusionism, and Pocket Dimension Manipulation (Capable of creating Zippers that can open and close anything. These Zippers also contain a pocket dimension and can separate and fuse anything by unzipping beyond the end of the line and zipping to the very top, respectively)

or

Creation and Pocket Dimension Manipulation (Capable of creating zippers on anything which often contains pocket dimensions), Fissionism and Fusionism (Capable of creating a zipper across the entity till each side connects, allowing him to separate and re-attach anything by zipping across the ends)

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Captain Atom

First of all, An Atom is a Fusion of Subatomic particles. Splitting a Fusion is Fission.

Secondly, There are many variations of matter manipulation. In fact "Splitting atoms" is not technically not one of the criteria on the page itself but thats besides the point. My point is this is not the first time an ability shares similarities with others. This is the same situation with mind manipulation, soul manipulation and many other abilities on wiki

As @Andytrenom says

"A lot of powers have variations in their mechanism and working but are united by the general concept. Such as mind manipulation having the possibility of being biological or metaphysical. So I don't see that point being very relevant."

This is the equivalent of saying Transmutation shouldn't exist because reality-warping exists. Equivalent of saying Fire and Ice manipulation shouldn't exist because they perform the same functions as heat manipulation, so on and so forth.

Have we forgotten that sub-powers of abilities are useful for limited versions of abilities?

Although Captain Atom can do much more than "split atoms", lets assume he can't do other things with matter. You can not say splitting atoms is matter manipulation when it is very limited to what matter manipulation truly is. There is also nothing wrong with Fissionism being under matter manipulation as Fusion is under matter manipulation as well.

This is not a CRT for character abilities so I am not arguing why Captain Atom should have fission. I am arguing that splitting atoms qualifying for Fission since atoms are fusions and it is far too limited for matter manipulation.

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Ben

Agreed
, but look at the definition of biological manipulation

Ability to manipulate organic beings. May range from minor body control to matter manipulation at molecular level. In addition, biological manipulation often provides a high level of adaptation (might also lead to reactive evolution), immunity to various influences (such as poisons or diseases), and heal wounds at an accelerated rate (or even regenerate).

Notice how biology manipulation coincides with matter manipulation and body control counts for biological manipulation and we still add body contol to profiles.

Your logic has to pertain to every power and ability on wiki.

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Skipping over controversial/resolved examples to obvious ones because I literally thought them up on the spot. Read the thread you will see perfect examples in line with the definition.
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Buggy

First of all nothing in Body Control talks about the seperating body parts. He has body control from being able to control his body after it is seperated. Seperating Body Parts is Fissionism.

Lets go to his
page shall we

Ate the Bara Bara no Mi, a Paramecia type Devil Fruit which grants him complete immunity from cutting attacks (Vertical or horizontal), and allows him to split his body into parts and rejoin it,

Notice how he doesn't have an ability for this text. This is not how an ability should be indexed, dont you agree? Now look at this simple fix.

Fissionism, Fusionism and Body Control (Ate the Bara Bara no Mi, a Paramecia type Devil Fruit which grants him complete immunity from cutting attacks, and it allows him to split, control and rejoin his body parts)

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By what's suggested here I can claim that I have fissionism for my ability to separate an egg into egg white, yolk and shell.

lol. i can literally troll other abilities on here too just like you are doing.


THERE ARE MANY OTHER EXAMPLES ON THIS THREAD THAT SATISFY THE DEFINITION AT THE TOP OF THIS POST.
 

Antvasima

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So what's the situation here?
You, Elizhaa, Confluctor, LordTracer, Andytrenom, and SamanPatou apparently agree with creating this page, whereas DontTalkDT, DarkDragonMedeus, and I disagree with it, so there is not sufficient consensus to apply the change here.
 

Arnoldstone18

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You, Elizhaa, Confluctor, LordTracer, Andytrenom, and SamanPatou apparently agree with creating this page, whereas DontTalkDT, DarkDragonMedeus, and I disagree with it, so there is not sufficient consensus to apply the change here.

Does this definition bring you closer to changing your mind? If not how can I change your mind?

A character's supernatural ability to separate anything into two or more parts. The user can also undo fusions of objects, powers, emotions, concepts, living beings, etc., turning them into multiple units. Identical units should warrant a Duplication rating instead. Please note that undoing fusions through physical means such as sharp tools, ripping apart things, etc., do not count. As they are merely a result of the sharpness or force of the means and not a supernatural action. Although there are cases where the sharpness tends to be supernatural, in which case those tools should qualify.
 
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You, Elizhaa, Confluctor, LordTracer, Andytrenom, and SamanPatou apparently agree with creating this page, whereas DontTalkDT, DarkDragonMedeus, and I disagree with it, so there is not sufficient consensus to apply the change here.
So... more input?
 

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Well, it depends on what DontTalk thinks. He is usually likely our most sensible staff member.
 
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Trying to find that example where some AI separates some elements of Cyborg's self from him that was posted on this thread some time ago, but for some reason it's not on this thread any more.

I still think ArnoldStone18 made the best case here myself. Though I will address something here.

@Antvasima , I respect you mate, but you really shouldn't go about putting your thoughts above others in a debate. Sure, you're a bureaucrat, but you're still one person like the rest of the members here, staff or not. Overworked, sure, but still one person nonetheless. It would be less pushy if ya acknowledged the other staff members here a bit more equally. After all, it is just a stupid ability; nothing we need to get all hankered up over.
 
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Do you have up to 10 characters that should gain this abilities and cannot be argued otherwise?
I mean that is a clear definition of what you are proposing and cannot be said to be another ability entirely like DT has said?
Most of the characters you bring, their abilities can easily fall under another section and it will be equally true.
 
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Wouldn't Trafalgar law also fall under this? specially shambles
We know his ability is also spatial displacement but he can then fuse multiple different bodies with the main body being able to control the fused body in some cases.

In Granblue Fantasy. one of the notable abilities of the Captain is separating Sky Essence and the concept it has taken form from astral power which is where the Soul, physical body, mind, and spirit came from so it can pass away into the afterlife without the Concept disappearing from the world as well. They did this to the Concept of history Akasha. While the Primarchs used it on themselves so that their death along with their abstract/concept wouldn't result in the world collapsing but they retain all their powers and such.
Scathacha also has this where she separated her malice and hatred alongside most of her power from herself so she will not be consumed by it. This one is written as Mind manipulation and Empathic Manipulation

normally it is written as powernull and immortality negations (12345 8) for captain and Concept manipulation for Primarchs. but this powernull to primal beast outright kills them along with all their powers and I can't really say it's powernull with EE because their true selves as abstract remains but everything else passes away and return to where it came from.

that's the characters I can think off who fits from the OP description
 

Antvasima

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@Antvasima , I respect you mate, but you really shouldn't go about putting your thoughts above others in a debate. Sure, you're a bureaucrat, but you're still one person like the rest of the members here, staff or not. Overworked, sure, but still one person nonetheless. It would be less pushy if ya acknowledged the other staff members here a bit more equally. After all, it is just a stupid ability; nothing we need to get all hankered up over.
I usually defer to the opinions of other staff members, and I personally have no big stakes in this particular subject. I am just saying that there is not a sufficient consensus here, and my experience is that DontTalk usually seems to know best in our discussions.
 

Arnoldstone18

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Do you have up to 10 characters that should gain this abilities and cannot be argued otherwise?
I mean that is a clear definition of what you are proposing and cannot be said to be another ability entirely like DT has said?
Most of the characters you bring, their abilities can easily fall under another section and it will be equally true.
A lot of our powers (if not half) and abilities can literally be argued to fit an even broader ability.

Depending on the context

Transmutation = Matter manipulation = Reality Warping.

notice how Transmutation could be a specific form of matter manipulation?
notice how matter manipulation could be a more specific form of reality warping?

this logic is irrelevant honestly,
And the solution is obvious. Use the broader abilities for broader scopes of power. We subconsciously do this when we rate with the broadest of abilities (reality warping, Law Manipulation, Conceptual manipulation). For limited versions of the power we use something else (bio manipulation, matter manipulation, time manipulation). For even more limited abilities we have ( Fusion, Fission, time stop).

DT is literally exploiting the existence of broader abilities to counter examples brought by people in support of this ability.
 

Antvasima

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Well, I suppose that we will have to wait for DontTalk to get the available free time to respond here again.
 
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By the way, I also agree with DontTalk, a Fissionism page clearly does more harm than good and we already have more than enought power pages that don't even help indexing powers but are just glorified categories at best.
 

Arnoldstone18

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Honestly, I have gone back and read everything DontTalkDT has said to others concerning the issue

@DontTalkDT are you okay with fusionism page? Because your logic and examples to counter Fissionism, can be perfectly used against Fusionism.
 
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A lot of our powers (if not half) and abilities can literally be argued to fit an even broader ability.

Depending on the context

Transmutation = Matter manipulation = Reality Warping.

notice how Transmutation could be a specific form of matter manipulation?
notice how matter manipulation could be a more specific form of reality warping?

this logic is irrelevant honestly,
And the solution is obvious. Use the broader abilities for broader scopes of power. We subconsciously do this when we rate with the broadest of abilities (reality warping, Law Manipulation, Conceptual manipulation). For limited versions of the power we use something else (bio manipulation, matter manipulation, time manipulation). For even more limited abilities we have ( Fusion, Fission, time stop).

DT is literally exploiting the existence of broader abilities to counter examples brought by people in support of this ability.
Turning a human to a bird or a rat is pretty specific form of power. And I can mention at least a 100 pages with this ability and cannot be argued otherwise that it was done via matter manipulation.
Which was why I was asking the OP to list 10 pages that needs the ability and cannot be argued for otherwise
 
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