Explanation about how far is Composite DB in 2-A

[StrymULTRA]

Introductio

Since DB 2-A was accepted I'd like to make clear the scaling in that tier, before getting vs threads out of hand.

Explanation about how high is the verse in 2-A
About Heroes, any of the 15 universes is implied creatng infinite timelines, since in BT3 is implied that there are infinite versions of just Universe 7, and would be pretty logical that this is applied to the other 15 universes making the Dragon Ball reality made of 15 multiverses each one made of infinite timelines. This applies to Xenoverse as well, since there are infinite stories/timelines, each one having 15 space-time continuums, making it 15 times bigger than the baseline 2-A verse.

EDIT: Since Dragon Ball follows the many world interpretation theory, that makes each timeline create countless versions of itself as reflection of its possibilities, creating a number of infinite multiverses so high that makes the verse 15 * countless times bigger than the baseline 2-A, since for any of the 15 universes there's an infinite multiverse, and for each timeline of these multiverses there are countless reflection of them, making the Dragon Ball reality composed of 15 sets of countless multiverses, and each of these multiverses is made of infinite timelines.

Why x15?
The reason why it's x15 is because in some timelines there are 12 space-time continuums remained, and in some should still be 18 and as we don't know the percentage of number of universes that remained in each one of the timelines, we should take the average of the few info we have, obtainig a safe end without too much doubts that make complicated the scaling in 2-A.

Conclusion
The Dragon Ball reality to make is simple is structured like this:

There are 15 universes, and for each one of them there are infinite alterante versions of themselves.

Any of these infinite universes generates countless versions of themselves as well.

Thus makes the DB multiverse like a rectangle cube, with the base having 15 universes as first side and infinite universes as second side, and as height it has countless universes, making the Dragon Ball reality 15 * countless times bigger than the baseline 2-A multiverse.

 

[StrymULTRA]

If this is accepted, we should change the Demon God DBX Demigra's AP description to this:

Multiverse level+ (Normally fought with Chronoa as the Supreme Kai of Time. Became stronger after absorbing Tokitoki, whose eggs can hatch into an entire timeline and can control time. Was stated to have control over all of space-time of the Dragon Ball reality upon absorbing it, which is made of infinite timelines for each universe and possibility. Demigra was going to use the power of Tokitoki in order to create his own timeline after destroying all previous ones via the Time Vault)

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Also this: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...agon_Ball_Xenoverse_2-B_Cosmology_and_Scaling

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also this: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...agon_Ball_Xenoverse_2-B_Cosmology_and_Scaling

Is outdated, since a 2-B multiverse has literally 0 relevance to a 2-A ome

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

The littlest of things in one timeline can make other timelines and there are infinite timelines already. So it's infinite^countless or even infinite^infinite. At least that's how I think it works.

 

[StrymULTRA]

The littlest of things in one timeline can make other timelines and there are infinite timelines already. So it's infinite^countless or even infinite^infinite. At least that's how I think it works.

This is too much an highball, we can take it as the R&M Multiverse that has a universe for each possibility, that are infinite in total

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@StrymULTRA

I think he linked that solely for the scaling of the characters, not for the cosmology itself (Kep's blog kinda deals with that now.)

 

[StrymULTRA]

I don't think that is relevant tho, as they scale to just the 2-A cosmology

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No. The 18 times thing doesn't work like that. Only way it would be 15x if there were 18 infinite multiverses in the infinite timelines. Akin to Archie Sonic's 2-3 and Madoka's 2-3. Instead there's only 18 universes. They have to go off the scaling chain and nothing else.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Good thing the real world, crack of time, and time nest exist.

 

[StrymULTRA]

No. The 18 times thing doesn't work like that. Only way it would be 15x if there were 18 infinite multiverses in the infinite timelines. Akin to Archie Sonic's 2-3 and Madoka's 2-3. Instead there's only 18 universes. They have to go off the scaling chain and nothing else.

Uhm, this is the logic applied why DBH was Countless 2-B x 12-18, why should it be wrong there?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Because it was still finite (And I disagreed with it back then too) at the time.

 

[Planck69]

Each timeline would have to spawn its own infinite other universes and each of those universes would have to spawn an infinite number of their own for this to be infinite^infinitely above baseline. As it stands, it's just 18 x countless x baseline at best if the multiverse still keeps spawning universes every moment.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Each timeline would have to spawn its own infinite other universes and each of those universes would have to spawn an infinite number of their own for this to be infinite^infinitely above baseline. As it stands, it's just 18 x countless x baseline at best if the multiverse still keeps spawning universes every moment.

I don't even need to tell how that's wrong tbh

 

[Planck69]

And how pray-tell am I wrong?

 

[Elizhaa]

Universe 7 created many timelines via many-worlds interpretation of parallel universes; the other universes should still grow like Universe 7. there are level to infinite, StrymULTRA as meaning infinitely above baseline 2-A isn't improper with proper contexts and similar contexts with other verses like Wizard 101's.

I do think Cal make some good points.

I think there are more contexts that multiverse is much larger and may be infinitely above baseline 2-A.

Though, I think it is best to save this thread later for the new forum since the topic discussion does not look clear cut and simple.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Yeah. Save this for later

Also I said before ottavio and I will make MWI blog

 

[SSJRyu1]

I can at least say this without it being controversial or contradicted.

Base Xeno Goku is whatever level of 2-A the DBH multiverse is since he is at least somewhat comparable to Demigra who even in base was capable of destroying the multiverse. A simple chain where each higher level could low to no difficulty one shot and blitz the last could go like this.

Base Xeno < SSJ Xeno < SSJ2 Xeno < SSJ3 Xeno < SSJ4 Xeno < SSJB KK CC Goku < UI sign CC Goku < MUI CC Goku < Whis (and other angels) < Grand Priest <<< Zeno

Worth noting is even the angels and kais consider Zeno to be unkillable and unstopable, so he is likely vastly superior to even GP, even more so than any other power gap listed above.

You could really branch off most relevant characters to scale somewhere in that list. There may be more slots that could be added but this seems pretty clear, and the gaps between each are significant enough to be considered for sure.

But yes a blog should be made on it in the near future when things are back to normal, no need to try and set anything in stone now.

Also I wanna get on upgrading that speed to XD

 

[StrymULTRA]

Now that I got back from my buisness I'll explain why whatever was said here is wrong

>There can't be more than a baseline 2-A verse, the multiverse inside a timeline must be infinite

That's not how it works, Post-Genesis Sonic scales to just 2 2-A verses that haven't inside each universe an infinite multiverse, yet was accepted to 2x Baseline 2-A, also that's not even how math works, a pile of infinite things multiplied x 2 would be objectevely bigger than before. And since any of the 15 universes create infinite timelines, Baseline x 15 is fine.

>The DB multiverse should be 18 x infinity x countless the baseline 2-A

I don't even get how you got such an idea. Nothing said that any of the infinite universes generated from the possibilities of the main one create infinite universes of their own, this is an huge headcanon. The infinite universes are implied being just a reflection of the infinite possibilities that can happen in just one universe, otherwise Dinosaur King verse would be Ad Infinitum since it generates a timeline for any moment in time, and the new timelines generate new universes for each moment of their time and so on, and you know that this is nothing than an huge assumption. Again, the Baseline x 15 stands.


Also I know that the forum will move soon, but honestly I find these arguments absurd.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Now that I got back from my buisness I'll explain why whatever was said here is wrong
>There can't be more than a baseline 2-A verse, the multiverse inside a timeline must be infinite

That's not how it works, Post-Genesis Sonic scales to just 2 2-A verses that haven't inside each universe an infinite multiverse, yet was accepted to 2x Baseline 2-A, also that's not even how math works, a pile of infinite things multiplied x 2 would be objectevely bigger than before. And since any of the 15 universes create infinite timelines, Baseline x 15 is fine.

>The DB multiverse should be 18 x infinity x countless the baseline 2-A

I don't even get how you got such an idea. Nothing said that any of the infinite universes generated from the possibilities of the main one create infinite universes of their own, this is an huge headcanon. The infinite universes are implied being just a reflection of the infinite possibilities that can happen in just one universe, otherwise Dinosaur King verse would be Ad Infinitum since it generates a timeline for any moment in time, and the new timelines generate new universes for each moment of their time and so on, and you know that this is nothing than an huge assumption. Again, the Baseline x 15 stands.


Also I know that the forum will move soon, but honestly I find these arguments absurd.

In the MWI, every time a "random" event takes place, the universe splits between the various options available. Each separate version of the universe contains a different outcome of that event.

In this theory Timelines/Universes are created from all possible outcomes of an event.

Aka they generate from all possibilities of an event. The MWI itself debunks your claim. Dragon Ball works on this theory.

 

[SSJRyu1]

For the record each timeline is a small muliverse already, that alone makes them larger than standard timelines, and there are infinte timelines that are also each expanding infinitly. So it is imo a higher level of infinity past baseline 2-A

If baseline 2-A = ∞

you could argue this is 12 x ∞ x ∞ = 12 x ∞^2

12+(number macrocausms in a timeline) x ∞(infinite multiverse) x ∞(infinitly expanding).

Or in other words multiply baseline 2-A by infinity, and that by 12 for this. The 12 is negligable compared to the extra infinity btw, it would only matter if another verse had the extra infinity to and the 12 had to be factored to detirmine which was larger. Thats my take on it right now.

But I won't argue that further until after the move and a new thread.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

For the record each timeline is a small muliverse already, that alone makes them larger than standard timelines, and there are infinte timelines that are also each expanding infinitly. So it is imo a higher level of infinity past baseline 2-A
If baseline 2-A = ∞

you could argue this is 12 x ∞ x ∞ = 12 x ∞^2

12+(number macrocausms in a timeline) x ∞(infinite multiverse) x ∞(infinitly expanding).

Or in other words multiply baseline 2-A by infnity, and that by 12 for this. The 12 is negligable compared to the extra infinity btw, it would only matter if another verse had the extra infinity to and the 12 had to be factored to detirmine which was larger. Thats my take on it right now.

But I won't argue that further until after the move and a new thread.

This is also my opinion

Also we should argue this after the moving as Ryu said

 

[StrymULTRA]

Please, can you avoid quoting such a long post? Otherwise you create a long ass post hard to read

 

[StrymULTRA]

Checked better, that theory makes absolutely sense, I'll fix the OP

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Ok. Sorry about the quote, i was too lazy ehehe

However i'm making a blog on it to post here after the moving

 

[Giygas3]

Going to correct a few things, because in all honesty, I'm seeing this being said very often here.

"In the MWI, every time a "random" event takes place, the universe splits between the various options available"

The Universe doesn't split. The entire Universe is in a pure state that evolves in time according to the unitary transformation, which preserves all natural laws. It should be noted that the Wave Function IS reality under it, and there's only one "World". The word, "worlds" in the MWI are particular terms of Wave Function, and different observers look at different states of it. They don't affect what I was talking about previously.

Dragon ball does NOT work on this basis. It's something entirely different. It just basically says, "Time Traveling to a point in the past, yea, that creates a whole bunch of new possibilities that wasn't there to begin with. And somehow, there's now an Infinite amount of timelines."

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ok. Sorry about the quote, i was too lazy ehehe
However i'm making a blog on it to post here after the moving

Fixed it

 

[SomebodyData]

We don't treat the expanding part in AP (Otherwise most 2-As would be infinite 2-As anyways) and the 15x thing sounds more like each universe is the prime "main" universe with an infinite amount of timelines based on them, it doesn't change the overall amount of 'multiverses' they can destroy.

Basically just an infinite multiverse with some primary universes in it.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Going to correct a few things, because in all honesty, I'm seeing this being said very often here.
"In the MWI, every time a "random" event takes place, the universe splits between the various options available"

The Universe doesn't split. The entire Universe is in a pure state that evolves in time according to the unitary transformation, which preserves all natural laws. It should be noted that the Wave Function IS reality under it, and there's only one "World". The word, "worlds" in the MWI are particular terms of Wave Function, and different observers look at different states of it. They don't affect anything.

Dragon ball does NOT work on this basis. It's something entirely different. It just basically says, "Time Traveling to a point in the past, yea, that creates a whole bunch of new possibilities that wasn't there to begin with. And somehow, there's not an Infinite amount of timelines."

many different futures are created over the smallest of things. In the context of DB "Many different timelines are created over the smallest events".

Time rings are equivalent to timelines. Beerus destroying Zamasu created another Timeline Another proof for MWI.


Timelines in DB aren't just created by time travel

 

[Giygas3]

"many different futures are created over the smallest of things. In the context of DB "Many different timelines are created over the smallest events".

Time rings are equivalent to timelines. Beerus destroying Zamasu created another Timeline Another proof for MWI."

I've always understood this to mean when you change something in the past, this creates a bunch of different possibilities that wouldn't exist in the first timeline. The plot is based around Toriyama's idea of Time Traveling. It's why the God's outlawed time traveling in canon, because it allows for all these new timelines to keep on spawning. Except in Heroes, it's taken up a huge notch with different possibilites to emerge from these changes.

"Another proof for MWI."

I don't think you quite understand what MWI is. Explain to me what the MWI is, exactly.

Anyways, I'm not too familiar with Xenoverse to really comment to the rest of your comment, so I'll get back with you later once I took the time to look at all that you've provided.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I actually agree, if you treat an infinite multiverse + expanding timelines then that ruins the concept of 2-A as a whole. Destroying multiple infinite multiverses is a better feat.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Explained better how DB reality works, to avoid confusions and misinterpretations

 

[Antvasima]

We don't treat the expanding part in AP (Otherwise most 2-As would be infinite 2-As anyways) and the 15x thing sounds more like each universe is the prime "main" universe with an infinite amount of timelines based on them, it doesn't change the overall amount of 'multiverses' they can destroy.

Basically just an infinite multiverse with some primary universes in it.

This seems to make sense to me.

 

[StrymULTRA]

We don't treat the expanding part in AP (Otherwise most 2-As would be infinite 2-As anyways) and the 15x thing sounds more like each universe is the prime "main" universe with an infinite amount of timelines based on them, it doesn't change the overall amount of 'multiverses' they can destroy.
Basically just an infinite multiverse with some primary universes in it.

Hm, DC 2-As work like that, so I don't see why Dragon Ball shouldn't

 

[StrymULTRA]

Bump

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Bruh

Close this thread

I literally told y'all me and Ottavio are working on a cosmology blog.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

Well, we will also need to get infinite speed for DBH if that would ever be possible

 

[Sevestus]

That's a separate topic entirely.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

true

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

Well it's really necessary to get a good analysis on Xeno Goku's AP and speed in his base form then in his transformation