Equal stats enemy duo tournament 1-5: Fists of god and sheer rage

[SlendVeny]

All stats equal

Park Ilpyo and Sujin (I believe this is Adventure Arc?) vs Metal Bat and Garou (Post-Darkshine)

MB and Garou start out with Resonance, and Sujin and Park are in their Pandora and Nine-Tailed Fox forms

Martial Artists:

Martial Artist and a guy with a bat:

 

[DavidTPPM]

(I believe this is Adventure Arc?)

Yep exactly

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yeah anyways GoH duo wins quite easily. This would have already been at best debatable with pure martial arts but Sujins hax make this a stomp.

Sujins hax are basically all sight or thought based. She'll instantly seal away their powers and hit them with a combo of diseases, cold, curses, hallucinations, and power null with the worst case scenario being The Hope which manipulates the laws of physics such as strong and weak nuclear forces in her range.

Basically Sujin screws up both Garou and Metal Bat with unavoidable hax and if they somehow survive they get beat up to death.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Sujins hax are basically all sight or thought based. She'll instantly seal away their powers and hit them with a combo of diseases, cold, curses, hallucinations, and power null with the worst case scenario being The Hope which manipulates the laws of physics such as strong and weak nuclear forces in her range.

Basically Sujin screws up both Garou and Metal Bat with unavoidable hax and if they somehow survive they get beat up to death.

Wouldn't unavoidable hax that immediately let you win fall into the god-tier "I instantly beat you" category?

 

[DavidTPPM]

Wouldn't unavoidable hax that immediately let you win fall into the god-tier "I instantly beat you" category?

They're not OP enough to instantly let you win. Power null only seals away supernatural abilities and lowers stats, disease breaks down body parts but doesn't kill, cold just kinda made characters need a jacket (kinda underwhelming ngl), and hallucinations are, well, hallucinations.
Physics manipulation was mainly used to negate hax as well and idr it being used for direct attacks much (at least not until she got her hax amped).

The bigger issue here is that Garou and MB are basically just fighters with no major resistances or hax of their own.

 

[DontTalkDT]

What kind of illusions are we talking? Like, how much do they mess with reality?
And to which extent does disease break down body parts?
How exactly does the power null work mechanically? Would it apply to the opponents here?

Also, how much of those does she open with in-character? Can you show how she starts her fights?

Garou has reactive evolution and regeneration, so not acting fast could lead to places.

 

[DavidTPPM]

What kind of illusions are we talking? Like, how much do they mess with reality?

About this much

And to which extent does disease break down body parts?

It made Umas forearm crumble apart when she as much as grabbed her weapon with it.

How exactly does the power null work mechanically? Would it apply to the opponents here?

She looks at you and seals away your power. For borrowed power users it made them incapable of using their BP and for the gods themselves (like Uma) it made her physically far weaker.

Also, how much of those does she open with in-character? Can you show how she starts her fights?

She starts off by spamming the main pandora hax (disease, hallucinations, cold, power null)

Garou has reactive evolution and regeneration, so not acting fast could lead to places.

I'm aware. But Ilpyo and Sujin can keep up with Mori for extended periods of time and he also has reactive evolution which can close huge gaps basically instantly (idk if their shitty underdeveloped profiles note that ngl) so this shouldn't be an issue for long enough.

 

[DontTalkDT]

About this much

Seems bearable.

It made Umas forearm crumble apart when she as much as grabbed her weapon with it.

That took time, didn't it? Just judging by the other scan it didn't appear to do that much damage immediately.

She looks at you and seals away your power. For borrowed power users it made them incapable of using their BP and for the gods themselves (like Uma) it made her physically far weaker.

Borrowed power users use god powers, no? So both of those cases seal/weaken god powers. Seems like it wouldn't really apply to the martial artists here.

She starts off by spamming the main pandora hax (disease, hallucinations, cold, power null)

Does she always do that or only in that fight? Is there a second fight in which she acts like that?
Actually, is that the fight in which she is teamed up with Park?

I'm aware. But Ilpyo and Sujin can keep up with Mori for extended periods of time and he also has reactive evolution which can close huge gaps basically instantly (idk if their shitty underdeveloped profiles note that ngl) so this shouldn't be an issue for long enough.

Can't Garou straight up jump tiers?

 

[DavidTPPM]

Seems bearable.

Ig? It's definitely a major advantage since it straight up changes what you see and hear meaning it should make it hard to actually fight.

That took time, didn't it? Just judging by the other scan it didn't appear to do that much damage immediately.

Uhhh not really? The scene goes like this. Umas arm falls off the moment she tries to use it.

Borrowed power users use god powers, no?

No. Well not truly. Borrowed powers can be anyone. For example Uma, Hojosa, and the fake monkey king are demons/monsters not gods. Bruce Lee and Baedal Choi are humans and were still used as borrowed powers. Haete is a sacred animal.

So it's not race specific.

So both of those cases seal/weaken god powers. Seems like it wouldn't really apply to the martial artists here.

Ironically, Uma is mainly a martial artist (and ig so is Bruce Lee lmfao) and she got weakened by it.

Does she always do that or only in that fight? Is there a second fight in which she acts like that?

This is her only on screen fight where her pandora stuff works against the opponent so not really. Her later on screen fights are against the 3 brothers of Natak who specifically had magic crowns that stopped her abilities from working on them, against Mori where she was using her abilities to stop the planet from exploding instead, and against King where it was stated that only "The Hope" works against King (which is actually the justification for Kings power null resistance).

The only other thing that comes close to an onscreen fight is her saving Mori where she also starts by spamming Pandora hax.

Actually, is that the fight in which she is teamed up with Park?

It's 1 fight before they team up.

Can't Garou straight up jump tiers?

I mean, according to the stats on his profile yeah. But if we go by that then Mori straight up jumped from Low 7-B to Low 5-B basically instantly right before fighting Sujin.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Ig? It's definitely a major advantage since it straight up changes what you see and hear meaning it should make it hard to actually fight.

From what I see it doesn't change what you see to the extent that you can't tell where you need to punch the opponent, though.

Uhhh not really? The scene goes like this. Umas arm falls off the moment she tries to use it.

There is a bunch of stuff happening between the effect starting at the time we know it did enough damage to destroy the arm.

No. Well not truly. Borrowed powers can be anyone. For example Uma, Hojosa, and the fake monkey king are demons/monsters not gods. Bruce Lee and Baedal Choi are humans and were still used as borrowed powers. Haete is a sacred animal.

So it's not race specific.

I mean, the above scan has a guy saying "If I can't use borrowed power I'll fight with my own power" so it seems reasonably specific. If not outright gods, then for non-gods it needs to be power borrowed from another entity at the very least. Garou and Metal Bat don't seem like viable targets.

This is her only on screen fight where her pandora stuff works against the opponent so not really. Her later on screen fights are against the 3 brothers of Natak who specifically had magic crowns that stopped her abilities from working on them, against Mori where she was using her abilities to stop the planet from exploding instead, and against King where it was stated that only "The Hope" works against King (which is actually the justification for Kings power null resistance).

The only other thing that comes close to an onscreen fight is her saving Mori where she also starts by spamming Pandora hax.

It's 1 fight before they team up.

So how did the fight where they team up go?

I mean, according to the stats on his profile yeah. But if we go by that then Mori straight up jumped from Low 7-B to Low 5-B basically instantly right before fighting Sujin.

Sooooo? Like, are you suggesting she kept up with someone a billion times stronger for a while or why does the stat jump prior to the fight matter?

 

[DavidTPPM]

From what I see it doesn't change what you see to the extent that you can't tell where you need to punch the opponent, though.

I mean it completely changed what the green haired guy (such a useless character I don't remember his name lmao) saw. He saw his girlfriend crying blood while hugging him and talking about how he's a failure while she was in reality silently shaking out and not even touching him. That should be more than enough to make dodging attacks and hitting the target nigh impossible even against a normal opponent, not to mention a martial arts geniuses like Ilpyo and Sujin.

There is a bunch of stuff happening between the effect starting at the time we know it did enough damage to destroy the arm.

Not really? She just hit others with her sight based hax and walked towards Uma. That's nigh instant. Oh and blocked an attack from a MHS character so yeah, that's like few seconds at best.

I mean, the above scan has a guy saying "If I can't use borrowed power I'll fight with my own power" so it seems reasonably specific. If not outright gods, then for non-gods it needs to be power borrowed from another entity at the very least.

No it doesn't. Uma is not a god and her power got sealed away as well. Her strength is indicated by her horn size and after the seal they completely shrunk down.

So how did the fight where they team up go?

They fought the brothers of Natak until Mori came back when she turned her attention for him but got sealed away by Ardun so he can fight Mori by himself.

Sooooo? Like, are you suggesting she kept up with someone a billion times stronger for a while or why does the stat jump prior to the fight matter?

Huh? I'm pointing out that she can keep up with Moris growth.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I mean it completely changed what the green haired guy (such a useless character I don't remember his name lmao) saw. He saw his girlfriend crying blood while hugging him and talking about how he's a failure while she was in reality silently shaking out and not even touching him. That should be more than enough to make dodging attacks and hitting the target nigh impossible even against a normal opponent, not to mention a martial arts geniuses like Ilpyo and Sujin.

It can be distracting, but I don't know if it would necessarily hide you from the target. Can she control which illusions happen?

Not really? She just hit others with her sight based hax and walked towards Uma. That's nigh instant. Oh and blocked an attack from a MHS character so yeah, that's like few seconds at best.

Due to speed equal stuff I assume that the character is MHS doesn't really matter (as in, the timeframe for this would be stretched proportionately).
And sure, it doesn't take extremely long. However, in this match it will be counteracted by the regeneration the entire time, which makes the delay more relevant.

No it doesn't. Uma is not a god and her power got sealed away as well. Her strength is indicated by her horn size and after the seal they completely shrunk down.

Then where does Uma get her power from? And why is the one guy's own power not affected?

They fought the brothers of Natak until Mori came back when she turned her attention for him but got sealed away by Ardun so he can fight Mori by himself.

Can I see the beginning of that fight?

Huh? I'm pointing out that she can keep up with Moris growth.

In which way? Like, did he get to a higher tier and she got a higher tier to match? Did she manage to fight him despite him being a tier higher than her? If so, how much? Was she just stronger than him at the beginning and fought while he cought up to her stats?

 

[DavidTPPM]

It can be distracting, but I don't know if it would necessarily hide you from the target.

It certainly would if the target sees you in a completely different place doing something completely different. Imagine seeing your opponent hugging you from the right when in reality they're in front of you going for a kick lol.

Can she control which illusions happen?

We don't get further explanation on this but she can control what she does with her other pandora hax like the hope so I would assume so.

Due to speed equal stuff I assume that the character is MHS doesn't really matter (as in, the timeframe for this would be stretched proportionately).

I mentioned the speed to show that the attack that happened between the poison being inflicted and destroying her arm is extremely small.

And sure, it doesn't take extremely long. However, in this match it will be counteracted by the regeneration the entire time, which makes the delay more relevant.

It takes extremely short time and as far as I'm aware Garou has 0 feats of regenerating from diseases or poisons. And MB straight up doesn't even have regen.

Then where does Uma get her power from?

Wdym? She doesn't get it from an outside source.

And why is the one guy's own power not affected?

Honestly no idea. It's never elaborated upon.

Can I see the beginning of that fight?

Uhhh sure ig? Here's the entire fight up until Mori comes back and Sujin gets sealed

In which way? Like, did he get to a higher tier and she got a higher tier to match? Did she manage to fight him despite him being a tier higher than her? If so, how much? Was she just stronger than him at the beginning and fought while he cought up to her stats?

Basically Sujin was relative to Moris 6-A key at the start of the arc and she could then match Mori after the L5-B jump. Mori couldn't outgrow her during the entire fight. Not only did Moris reactive evolution fail to get him above Sujin, he actually consciously thought he lost and only ended up winning because his body instinctively learned a new skill from memory and performed, even Mori himself noting he doesn't know what happened.

Meaning Sujins reactive evolution should be relative to Moris who can jump by massive amounts, which means Garou shouldn't be able to just outgrow her. (same goes for Ilpyo who actually beat Mori in the arc before this)

 

[DontTalkDT]

Before I continue this debate further: Were you the one to nominate the Garou team?
Because if so I will just concede for now, as I don't really care how this match goes. I'm just debating to keep things active and sound out the GOH team for future matches. I'm not really a OPM expert or anything.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Before I continue this debate further: Were you the one to nominate the Garou team?

Yeah

 

[DontTalkDT]

In that case I vote for GoH to advance

 

[SlendVeny]

Ok, looking like we've got GoH set to win. Any last dissenters before we go?