Dura Neg Additions and Minor Offerings for Sekiro

[HalilAssassino]

Actually,

The wiki already acknowledges the dura neg abilities of mortal blades and the dura neg abilities in the users of these blades.

The only problem is that these capabilities are not specified in the required profiles. So the purpose of this crt is to add the already accepted dura neg ability to the required profiles.

For Wolf's profile:

Durability Negation (Even if the opponent is guard from Mortal Blade attacks, he still takes damage.)

For profiles of Genichiro, Isshin and Black Mortal Blade:

Durability Negation (Must be identical to its twin, Mortal Blade.)

Minor Offerings:

Black Mortal Blade has the ability to Life Manipülation, as indicated in its profile and this ability is also mentioned in the profile of one of its users, Isshin Ashina.

However, another user of Black Mortal Blade from this ability, Genichiro, is not mentioned in his profile. So I think this ability of Black Mortal Blade should be mentioned in Isshin Ashina's profile as well as Genichiro's profile.

For Genichiro's profile:

All previous, Immortality and Regeneration Negation with Black Mortal Blade (Which negate types 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 and 8), Life Manipülation (Black Mortal Blade can open a gate to the underworld and pull out life, though the wielder must sacrifice themselves to achieve this.)

To further support the description of the dura neg ability in Lady Butterfly's profile, I suggest adding a video link.

For Lady Butterfly's profile:

Durability Negation (Her illusionary butterflies are able to chip past one's guard)

I realized we don't have a mortal blade page, so I made one.

Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

So what do you think, friends?

 

[LordGinSama]

This is similar to Zoro's Goken so I completely disagree with durability negation rather this should be Damage Boost.

 

[DarkGrath]

Hmm...

Regarding the fact that "Even if the opponent is guard from Mortal Blade attacks, he still takes damage", I doubt this would qualify for Durability Negation in the first place. And if the profiles are already treated under this assumption, then I think it's worthy of discussing further here.

The problem is, with how Mortal Draw is depicted as an attack with an extreme amount of force behind it, I think you could very easily contest it being Dura Neg by simply pointing out the fact that it could deal chip damage through blocks simply because people like Wolf don't have the physical strength needed to completely counteract that force by blocking. To give a slightly silly illustrative example; if you were holding a sword, and a giant brick wall fell down upon you, and you held up your sword to block the wall, you'd probably still be badly harmed by it whether or not the sword successfully softened the blow. That wouldn't mean the wall has durability negation.

I don't think it's impossible for the Mortal Blade to have Dura Neg, mind you. I'm opening this up as a point of discussion, not making a final call. But we probably shouldn't state things on profiles we can't prove or at least rationally derive. In this case, there's a fairly straightforward alternate explanation.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

The Mortal Blades emit a hazardous mist that deals the damage regardless of defense, which is what gives it dura neg

As for Lady Butterfly, I'm not sure, but leaning more towards yes. A lot of verses have illusions that can deal real damage, but it varies between damaging the mind/soul, actual physical damage, strong placebo, what have you. If it's mind/soul or placebo, then I think it qualifies

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean, yeah, they neg dura no matter how you slice it, one way or another. I agree with that part. I think you should phrase it better for the Black Mortal Blade, Isshin, and Genchiro, though. Maybe just explain the whole thing on their profile.

I'm fine with the Life Manip note being added.

Really unsure about that Lady Butterfly note, though. Think I have to disagree.

 

[Rez]

The Mortal Blades emit a hazardous mist that deals the damage regardless of defenses

This sounds like an decent explanation

 

[DarkGrath]

If the explanation for the Mortal Blade's Dura Neg is "The Mortal Blades emit a hazardous mist that deals the damage regardless of defenses", and this is properly sourced, than that's pretty cut-and-dry. I have no qualms with that.

 

[QrowBarr]

yes, a much better explanation.

@SheevShezarrine Thanks for the explanation, let me supplement this with a description of the mortal draw ability in the game, it will be more robust that way.

---

If you want to take a look it's right here.

The image isn't available for me but here's the quote itself in-game.

A Combat Art using the Mortal Blade. Costs Spirit Emblems to use.

With the flash of a sword, the blade slashes through enemies, leaving a reddish-black, noxious mist. The seeping mist extends the range of the blade.
A technique using the blade that cannot be drawn is a feat only the oathbound of the Divine Heir could achieve.

https://sekiro-shadows-die-twice.fandom.com/wiki/Mortal_Draw

This also applies for the Black Mortal Blade, seeing as it chips through Wolf's guard just the same.

 

[HalilAssassino]

The image isn't available for me but here's the quote itself in-game.


https://sekiro-shadows-die-twice.fandom.com/wiki/Mortal_Draw

This also applies for the Black Mortal Blade, seeing as it chips through Wolf's guard just the same.

I understand, I uploaded the picture to imgur.

Still, you stated the reason with a fandom quote, thank you, but for you to see, I will show the picture taken from the game I uploaded to imgur in the comment.

---

It looks like we now have general agreement for the motral blades dura neg abilities.

For the profile of Mortal Blade, Wolf, Isshin Ashina, Genichiro and Black Mortal Blade:

Durability Negation (The Mortal Blades emit a hazardous mist that deals the damage regardless of defenses.)

Now we can discuss the dura neg note on Lady Butterfly's profile, although they are basically an illusion in illusionary butterflies we still take actual physical damage even if we are guarded when they hit us.

I think this is how it works, is that enough for dura neg or should we specify under the heading Illusion Creation? More ideas on how illusionary butterflies work would be much better.

Also, your thoughts about how accurate our Mortal Blade page I created is very important.

 

[QrowBarr]

Profile looks pretty good to me. As for the illusion butterflies hmm

The butterflies + the illusion phantoms themselves seem to be physical, but the Snap Seed item description seems to suggest they are also mindbased?

If an illusion occurs, it is because someone created it. To crush the phantoms and return to reality one must defeat the creator of the illusion.

Snap Seed | Sekiro Shadows Die Twice Wiki

Snap Seed is a Quick Item in Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice. It is used to break the effect of an enemy's ability to use illusion techniques.

sekiroshadowsdietwice.wiki.fextralife.com

Dialogue from Inosuke (the NPC outside of her boss room), as well as the cutscene before the fight, implies that the latter is also the case as well. Her phantom butterflies seem to function the same as her other illusions as they can also be dispelled, so nothing suggests that they work differently

Hmm, unsure of what to make of this

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I think Butterfly's illusions and her kunai should be taken separately. The kunai do damage even if you're blocking, the illusions don't. It's probably a property of the kunai by themselves.

I'm fine with the Mortal Blade changes.

 

[QrowBarr]

I guess that's fair, the kunai themselves seem to be special since Wolf can also summon the butterflies with it.

 

[Naito-desu]

So have these been applied yet?

 

[SMari00]

I think Butterfly's illusions and her kunai should be taken separately. The kunai do damage even if you're blocking, the illusions don't. It's probably a property of the kunai by themselves.

I'm fine with the Mortal Blade changes.

Agree 100% with this