Dragon Ball Heroes Special Ki Additions

[Theglassman12]

I’m still skeptical on this being a function of the entire demon world given the advent of technology in the demon world doesn’t really mean that the entire world itself functions on a different set of physics and laws. Other franchises that has a lot of magic and utilizes technology too doesn’t make the world altered in physics and laws.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

I’m still skeptical on this being a function of the entire demon world given the advent of technology in the demon world doesn’t really mean that the entire world itself functions on a different set of physics and laws. Other franchises that has a lot of magic and utilizes technology too doesn’t make the world altered in physics and laws.

The scans also bring up the living universe itself and how it runs according to science. While the living universe runs according to the laws of science as it's mostly based off of our universe, the Demon Realm is where magic rules. It makes perfect sense. While I can't speak for other fictions, this scenario makes the most sense as the technological/scientific advancements of the Demon Realm show that it's not just a bunch of magic in there, but a fair amount of science too, arguably greater than what the actual living universe possesses.

 

[Theglassman12]

Yeah, because the inhabitants that live in the demon world comprise mostly of sorcerers, so having a lot of magical influence makes sense in the context that a lot of folks use magic rather than science. It sounds more like a Harry Potter situation where the wizarding world (Demon world in this case) predominantly run their world almost entire on magic as opposed to using natural science compared to the Muggle world (living world).

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Yeah, because the inhabitants that live in the demon world comprise mostly of sorcerers, so having a lot of magical influence makes sense in the context that a lot of folks use magic rather than science. It sounds more like a Harry Potter situation where the wizarding world (Demon world in this case) predominantly run their world almost entire on magic as opposed to using natural science compared to the Muggle world (living world).

I disagree with that. The common fodder Demon Soldier grunts literally use no magic at all, and they make up the majority of the Dark Empire's army. From what I've seen, they don't qualify for sorcerers at all, and that's the majority were talking about here

 

[Theglassman12]

The common demon soldier grunt also doesn't have as much influence in the demon world as the sorcerers given Demigra is one of the leaders in the army so my point still stands that magic just becomes a common norm for folks to use as opposed to science since it's run by sorcerers. Is there anything else with the demon world with any statements that the laws of the demon world function completely different or how gravity is completely different? Because that can at least somewhat imply the realm itself fundamentally runs in a different set of rules as opposed to just who's running the place. If not I don't exactly see this being physics and law hax.

 

[Planck69]

Regarding Law and Physics Manipulation, I'd say merely making a world isn't enough for those abilities, especially if we have no statement of the natural laws of the world having been altered or different before its creation. Just being a magic oriented world isn't quite enough for this.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

The common demon soldier grunt also doesn't have as much influence in the demon world as the sorcerers given Demigra is one of the leaders in the army so my point still stands that magic just becomes a common norm for folks to use as opposed to science since it's run by sorcerers. Is there anything else with the demon world with any statements that the laws of the demon world function completely different or how gravity is completely different? Because that can at least somewhat imply the realm itself fundamentally runs in a different set of rules as opposed to just who's running the place. If not I don't exactly see this being physics and law hax.

This argument doesn't work since the universe itself is also run by magical beings who don't use science to run it. The Kaio and Kaioshin supervise and rule the entire universe, which is even mentioned in the scans I've posted, and they're definitely more magical than science based beings. Even Kami, the God of Earth, is more of a magician. If the statements were only referring to who was actually running the place, then the universe is absolutely not run according to science as the Kaioshin never use any science to perform their duties. As for different functions, it is mentioned that if the seal of the Demon Realm was undone, the balance of the entire universe would collapse and half the macrocosm would turn evil. I don't see how having sorcerers run the place would automatically break the very balance of the universe, especially when those same sorcerers can enter the living world anytime they want, without breaking the seal.

Edit: Additionally, the Copy Universe still serves as a supporting feat, as it was a part of Towa's plans to resurrect the Demon Realm which was previously destroyed, and the power of the Dark Demon Realm objectively had a part in changing its rules, and disrupting the original universe's balance.

 

[Theglassman12]

Kami’s not a god, he’s just half of a Namekian so his “god” status means absolutely nothing here. And his whole magic is just tied to the dragon balls which doesn’t really prove or disprove anything, especially when very few people know who Kami even is on Earth.

the universe having a balance with the demon world doesn’t really mean the laws of the demon world differ, it just means they’re two sides of the same coin. Also my point on the sorcerers had nothing to do with the balance of the universe, it has to do with them having more control over the demon world being the explanation for why magic is far more influential than science in the demon world.

the dark demon realm and the time bird being both required for the copy universe to be made in the first place, which again puts this scaling to dark ki already into question.

 

[Antvasima]

What are your current conclusions here, Theglassman12 and Planck69?

 

[Theglassman12]

The physics and law hax doesn't seem sufficient enough to stay on the pages since it relies too much on assumptions regarding how the demon world works, where it has no statements or showings of the laws or physics itself being fundamentally different compared to the normal universe in DB. The rest of the abilities have been evaluated so the ones that can stay stays, while the others that have been debunked can be removed.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That should be applied in practice then. Is somebody here willing to handle it please?

 

[Theglassman12]

I can make the changes, the physics and law hax I'll leave for a bit for the supporters to get a few more comments to bring anything new to the table, if it's stuff that still isn't enough then I'll get rid of those too.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Please write a list of the exactly worded titles of all the VSB wiki pages that you need me to unlock.

 

[Theglassman12]

Son Goku (Xeno)​

Son Goku (Super Dragon Ball Heroes)​

 

[ImmortalDread]

the argument

This is nowhere law or physics manipulation as the context is referring to the significant difference between two types of setting where one is bounded by “science/technology” and other is bounded by “magic”. It is simply implying that “magic” got a more significant role over “technology/science”. And in this sense they never meant “physics of World or laws of World”, more like people rely on “science” and not on “magic”.
Since sorcerers run the place, it makes sense that it's supposed to be that, instead of the world being different in its rules.

 

[Theglassman12]

All of the changed got revised, plus I made them look nicer so it's easier to tell what's the abilities and what's the scans for said abilities for a majority of the pages, still need the Goku pages to be opened.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

All of the changed got revised, plus I made them look nicer so it's easier to tell what's the abilities and what's the scans for said abilities for a majority of the pages, still need the Goku pages to be opened.

Hold the **** up. Why was fate manipulation removed from Time Power when they have explicit statements of manipulating fate. This better be a simple ******* mistake on your part. Otherwise, it's an abuse of power, simple as that.

And as for the Copy Universe, literally the only thing that Tokitoki did was accelerate the time it took to make the universe. Accelerating time doesn't even remotely equate to Law manip.

And the "run by sorcerers" is contradicted by the Kaio and Kaioshin overseeing and guarding the entire universe and they don't run it according science. They don't use science to create celestial bodies nor oversee the universe. By your own logic, the living world is run according to magic aswell

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

This is nowhere law or physics manipulation as the context is referring to the significant difference between two types of setting where one is bounded by “science/technology” and other is bounded by “magic”. It is simply implying that “magic” got a more significant role over “technology/science”. And in this sense they never meant “physics of World or laws of World”, more like people rely on “science” and not on “magic”.
Since sorcerers run the place, it makes sense that it's supposed to be that, instead of the world being different in its rules.

You mean the same world where most of the low level grunts don't even use sorcery but technology, and is only run by a handful of sorcerers? As I've mentioned the "Sorcerers run the place" argument, the Kaio and Kaioshin run the universe and they're certainly not scientists. By your argument, even the universe itself is run by magical beings who use their power to create celestial bodies from thin air

 

[ImmortalDread]

Did you actually refute yourself further?

You mean the same world where most of the low level grunts don't even use sorcery but technology, and is only run by a handful of sorcerers?

This is literally of your own, that science in that context nowhere implies physics or laws of the world.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Dagoth_OwO that wasn't even there the last time I checked, the latter doesn't sound like much beyond a name, but the former can be used for fate hax. Though I would like to know why the hell time power is getting new abilities out of thin air with no CRT at all like fire and electricity manipulation.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

This is literally of your own, that science in that context nowhere implies physics or laws of the world.

I do love how my arguments get misconstructed, but at this point it doesn't even matter. Have a nice day

that wasn't even there the last time I checked, the latter doesn't sound like much beyond a name, but the former can be used for fate hax. Though I would like to know why the hell time power is getting new abilities out of thin air with no CRT at all like fire and electricity manipulation.

Fair enough. At this point, do what you want. This thread was going to be my last here regardless.

 

[Theglassman12]

Ok then, if you don't wanna discuss it any further then I'll just nuke the physics and law hax plus adding the fate hax back to time power. That should be the remaining thing to finish here.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Ok then, if you don't wanna discuss it any further then I'll just nuke the physics and law hax plus adding the fate hax back to time power. That should be the remaining thing to finish here.

Fair enough

 

[Theglassman12]

Alright, everything should be done, and this CRT can be closed.

 

[Theglassman12]

And both Goku pages are done, so they can be relocked.