• An important announcement about how to solve problems with your discussion thread notifications, and other important issues.

    Please click here for further information.
  • Important information regarding the linking of images from Fandom wikis.

    Please click here for further information.
  • Important information regarding upcoming advertisements in this forum.

    Please click here for further information.

Don't know if this will remain open but let's try... Xenoverse/Heroes range upgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
We have in Xenoverse proof for 4 "histories"separated from one another. Basically 4 sets of infinite timelines.

The official/original history​

The official history is placed within the Time Vault (in the Time Nest) and the Book of Beginnings and Endings (the Time Scrolls ). This is where the infinitely branched timelines exist. This is all across universes 1-12/18, as each timeline possesses 12/18 universes .

Chasm of Time/Expert Missions​

The Chasm of Time (The Time gap or Crack of Time) is a closed space outside of the regular flow of time and it's actually joined with the eras of Dragon Ball. which we know is an infinite amount.

"You saw Goku and the rest in the chasm of time? You sure you weren't daydreaming? But that place is joined with many eras. It shouldn't even exist. It's not strange no matter what happens there."
Chronoa's post alternate ending conversion with the Future Warrior in Dragon Ball Xenoverse

Furthermore, when the crystals in the CoT started to get destroyed, It was stated that history was changing and everything would eventually collapse . The statement of history being changed is also present in the Japanese version

Furthermore, the CoT is a natural time rift, and Chronoa stated that a time rift is actually separated from the original history


From this, we can conclude that the CoT is another storage of Dragon Balls infinite history. If this doesn't apply to the CoT, it should at least apply to the Expert Missions since they are all time rifts.

Tokipedia​

Tokipedia in Xenoverse 2 is also called "Extra Story" and is branched into different timelines (infinite,the DLC 6 which is called Infinite History): the blue side which is accessible via the Time Rift in the Time Nest, and the purple side which is accessible via talking with Fu in the Time Nest

Furthermore, all these (infinite) timelines are ,again, branched into other timelines. In fact the timelines have different paths based on which mentor you choose.

The Rifts that contains the timelines are stated to be separated from the official history by Chronoa and Fu. So we know this is a completely seperate branch of infinite timelines then the one stored within the official history.

PQs (Parallel Quests)​

It is actually stated, both in the Japanese and English version of the game, that the history of the PQs is different from the one that is stored in the Time Vault . The time patroller is saying that the history stored in the Time Vault and the one of the Parallel Quests are two separated sets of (infinite) timelines. This is backed up by the fact that the PQs are accessible only via time machine, while the history in the Time Vault is accessible only via Time Scrolls (remember that Xenoverse implies that one scroll = one timeline ).

This should prove that there are 4 seperated "histories of infinite timelines.

With this the range of the characters should change from just Multiversal+ to At least Multiversal+
 
Before this gets temporarily closed, I just wanna throw my two cents into it.

The main history is an infinity.
The Crack of Time is iffy. It's stated to be a time rift, which are separated from the main history, but when it was being destroyed, the main history was being affected?
The Tokipedia contains another infinity.
The history in which the Parallel Quests take place should also be another infinity.

So, that's three sets of infinity, four if you count the Crack of Time, at the very least. But this wouldn't increase their range to "At least Multiversal+". It's still just an infinite number of space-time continuum, no matter how many sets of infinites you throw into the mix, so it'd remain just Multiversal+.
 
Before this gets temporarily closed, I just wanna throw my two cents into it.

The main history is an infinity.
The Crack of Time is iffy. It's stated to be a time rift, which are separated from the main history, but when it was being destroyed, the main history was being affected?
The Tokipedia contains another infinity.
The history in which the Parallel Quests take place should also be another infinity.

So, that's three sets of infinity, four if you count the Crack of Time, at the very least. But this wouldn't increase their range to "At least Multiversal+". It's still just an infinite number of space-time continuum, no matter how many sets of infinites you throw into the mix, so it'd remain just Multiversal+.
If you're talking about the 2-A standard, that only applies to AP, not to range. Also Madoka has at least 2-A range for affecting 2 2-A sets of timelines and so does Archie characters. So I don't see why DB shouldn't

It would be 4 sets due to the Expert Missions
 
5,243
625
Pretty much agreed DC has the superior 2-A range because of multiple infinities. But that doesn't relate to AP.
 
About the CoT:

The CoT is separate from the main story due to being a time rift but it contains crystal which should be the representation of the timelines. Btw we can exclude it, since it seems at bit controversial. It should be just a place outside the sets of timelines
 
215
43
I'd like to chime in on the Parallel Quest part of the OP - the source cited is correct, but it's only one of Skid's four pieces of dialogue concerning PQs. In the English version, he also says:
Are you the Patroller who's on the critical mission? Everyone's talking about you! You know the great hero? But if you look very closely at each of the changes the hero made, you'll find slight imperfections in history. That's because those interventions were made by someone who never existed in the original timeline. Because of this, we can detect tiny fluctuations in history. That's why we have Parallel Quests. We can keep trying again and again to fix history completely, but we only ever get a fraction close to the correct version.
This would need to be checked against the Japanese version, but it would suggest that they are finite in number, given they only exist as the by-product of changes to history.
 
I'd like to chime in on the Parallel Quest part of the OP - the source cited is correct, but it's only one of Skid's four pieces of dialogue concerning PQs. In the English version, he also says:

This would need to be checked against the Japanese version, but it would suggest that they are finite in number, given they only exist as the by-product of changes to history.
Actually, Trunks ,also, indeed states that they are products of changes in the main story. I assumed thought that since every possibility is realized in DB, and the Multiverse constantly expands (the smallest thing creates many different futures) the sets would still be infinite, since that would imply that every timeline splits into infinity anyways (every possibility is realized + many different futures from the smallest of things = infinite timelines created every time) . Don't know thought and I might be wrong
 
Last edited:
Personal view of the situation:

So the Xenoverse/Heroes cosmology should be counted as 2x, possibly 3x due to the PQs being unclear if there's a finite or infinite amount of them

Or 3x, possibly 4x due to the PQs being unclear if there's a finite or infinite amount of them.

In the first option, I fused Tokipedia with the Expert Missions. In the second option, I separated Tokipedia from the Expert Missions:

EM are only time rifts while some Tokipedia timelines are inside time rifts but also some corrupted time scrolls which Dabura corrupted (like the Majin Buu one).


I'm fine with both thought. I'll also ask some staff opinion.
 
Last edited:
215
43
Only the main history and (if counted) the Crack of Time should apply to Heroes' cosmology; the Parallel Quests and Expert Missions aren't shown to exist in that continuity, and the Tokipedia can't exist.
 
Only the main history and (if counted) the Crack of Time should apply to Heroes' cosmology; the Parallel Quests and Expert Missions aren't shown to exist in that continuity, and the Tokipedia can't exist.
That's fair.

Btw I wanna say that the CoT being connected to the main story is contradicted due to the fact that Demigra was planning to destroy the Time Vault (which would have blown up the multiverse) and to hide in the CoT due to it being unaffected. Also Heroes treats it as a space separated from the multiverse so it should count as separated
 
2,979
268
The problem is that a simple name of the DLC isn't proof enough to call the separate Timelines Infinite, and the parallel Quest also doesn't have any evidence of being infinite from what you've posted. Just because the main timelines is infinite does not mean we can treat timelines that exist outside them as infinite in number as well.

I also share the same opinion of the Crack of Time it might be outside Time and its destruction but the timelines it is connected to are probably there same as the Time Vault timelines.
 
CoT is definitely outside of time. We agree on that

If it's connected to the main story then it's definitely 2-A in size. It would still count as a range feat: Demigra knows that the multiverse blowing up (baseline 2-A range) doesn't affect the CoT hence why he plans to hide in it. So baseline 2-A range isn't enough to affect it.

It should be 2x regardless since he's affecting 2 2-A spaces.


As for Heroes: does affecting the Real World count as a range feat, since people are affecting something beyond even the CoT? This is a just a question btw.

I agree to not count the others like PQs and Tokipedia, but definitely not agree on not counting the CoT.

Also CoT and the "Main story/multiverse" Are consistent with both Heroes and Xenoverse. The CoT survived the fight between SSJ3 Goku, Demigra and Future Warrior 1. And Dabura also uses it to hide from the destruction of the multiverse that Chronoa's possible death would have caused.
 
Last edited:
2,979
268
You can have things outside a 2-A Cosmology without them giving a multiplier, without further evidence of their size they would just be Infinite Timelines + a few extra ones. Though I'm not sure how the Wiki would accept the Range because ∞+2 or whatever not making much sense from a logical point of view.
 
I have another question.

If the main story has infinite variations of itself, does that count as 2x 2-A?

Tokipedia literally proves that every timeline has a version of the Time vault with the timelines (clearly an infinite amount since history is infinitely branched) stored inside of it. That would mean infinite versions of the time nest with every each one of these having infinite timelines.
 
Last edited:
1,280
351
Agreed with OP that there are multiple sets of 2-A size structures in Xenoverse and Heroes. I'm not sure how the wiki handles that in terms of range and AP currently, but there is definitely more than 1 set of infinite space times in the cosmology.
 
Problem is that every set would still be 2-A due to Cosmology shenanigans

Also as I said the main story has infinite variations of itself due to the fact that every timeline has a Time Nest with the infinite timelines of the main story inside of it, so it would be at least 2x regardless of anything (infinite timelines + infinite variations of them) .

It makes no sense to assume that every Time Nest contains the Exactly same timelines as the one we explore during Xenoverse and the ones they explore in Heroes. There's no proof of it and it would be contradicted by pretty much everything.

Infinite collections of infinite timelines is 2x baseline 2-A and every Time Nest has its own version of the infinite history (in Tokipedia it is shown to us a timeline where Demigra is the Supreme Kai of Time.) This would still grant "At least Multiversal+" Range to the cast.

Also remember that the Time Nest is in U7. Plus Chronoa is the Supreme kai of time for her own timeline, so there are multiple versions of Chronoa. In Heroes this is confirmed as well.

The CoT doesn't only watch the timelines, it contains them. An infinite amount of them. Hence why it is connected to the multiverse but at the same time separated from it. When the timeline that a crystal "observe" Is destroyed, so is the crystal itself. Because the crystal IS the timeline.

Also about the Parallel Quests: Trunks states that they are they derivated from Time Fragments and that they end up creating their own histories.

As i said i'm leading towards 2x baseline 2-A. But the PQs not being infinite doesn't make much sense to how the cosmology works and due to the fact that Trunks states that the Time Fragments end up becoming separate sets of timelines. Also the main story has been altered as a whole many times so it makes sense that there are an infinite number of them, given the fact that the Time Vault timelines have infinite variations of themselves.
 
Last edited:
215
43
The Tokipedia isn't literally infinite though - Fu creates the rifts individually, and the only reason they branch in the first place is because Fu lets you go back and make a different choice.
 
The Tokipedia isn't literally infinite though - Fu creates the rifts individually, and the only reason they branch in the first place is because Fu lets you go back and make a different choice.
Ok.

So we have :

Time Nest history(multiverse)
Infinite Variations of said multiverse (every timeline has a Time Nest with infinite timelines recorded and stored inside of it)
CoT (likely)
PQs (possibly)
 
Last edited:
2,979
268
Infinite Variations of said multiverse (every timeline has a Time Nest with infinite timelines recorded and stored inside of it)
No. We literally have no proof of this claim.

Honestly I see absolutly no proof that any of this would make the Cosmology more then one infinite with a few extra Timelimes outside it.
 
No. We literally have no proof of this claim.

Honestly I see absolutly no proof that any of this would make the Cosmology more then one infinite with a few extra Timelimes outside it.
WE literally see the Time nest in another timeline in Xenoverse.Also it's located inside Universe 7 so it makes no sense for it to not being in other timelines. It would be like saying that Heaven and Hell don't exist in alternate timelines. This claim contradicts the cosmology

There's no proof the Time Nest doesn't exist in other timelines and don't have the main story inside of it when Xenoverse literally debunks said claim.

We have more proof of my claim then yours. Xenoverse disagrees with you

The only debunk i've seen so far is about Tokipedia and the Expert Missions. And possibly the Parallel Quests.

The Tokipedia isn't literally infinite though - Fu creates the rifts individually, and the only reason they branch in the first place is because Fu lets you go back and make a different choice.
Also going back to this:

Fu in Tokipedia states that the rifts aren't created by him. And the rifts appeared at the same time.

Anyways i still need to see a debunk for the Crack Of Time.
 
Last edited:

Antvasima

VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Sysop
100,078
20,979
Several 2-A structures are still just 2-A.

Also, we should close this thread, as only one revision per verse is allowed at a specific time.
 
379
105
Several 2-A structures are still just 2-A.

Also, we should close this thread, as only one revision per verse is allowed at a specific time.
While the thread should be closed for now, I think you're missing the point here.

This isn't about AP, it's about upgrading range to At Least Multiversal+ for having a cosmology that is above baseline. Madoka and Archie Sonic both have it for being able to affect structures that are larger than baseline 2-A. This is was also brought up in a Madoka vs Yogiri match where it was argued that Madoka is omnipresent across a cosmology that is larger than Yogiri's so he wouldn't have the range to affect her entirely.
 

Antvasima

VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Sysop
100,078
20,979
I am afraid that it doesn't matter. There is no good validation for anything higher than 2-A according to our rules. Infinity x 4 = Infinity.
 
I am afraid that it doesn't matter. There is no good validation for anything higher than 2-A according to our rules. Infinity x 4 = Infinity.
Not really. In the 2-A standard thread that we had some time ago we agreed that multiple 2-A structures would not grant an AP rating, but they would still count as better range. Ultima Reality explained it pretty well, I think.

Also i'm pretty sure the other revision thread (the DBS one) was made after this one.
 
Last edited:
Even a countably infinite number of 2-A cosmologies is still just infinitely above baseline 2-A.
As said before , that only applies to AP, not range. DC,Archie,Madoka have "At least Multiversal+" range for affecting multiple 2-A structures. And the standards thread we made some time ago also reached that same conclusion. It doesn't grant an AP rating tho.
 
I remember ultima saying it but I don't think that thread was backed up for the forum move. I'm trying to look it up but can't find it. The title was something like "2-A standards"
 
Here it is:


Anyways from previous comments i think the only things that would qualify as 2-A sets would be the main story and the Crack of Time due to containing the timelines from the former but at the same time being separated from it.

clarifying some things about the latter:

Differently from what some people might think, the crystals in the Crack of Time aren't just "a view in time". That is inherently false.

They are physical representations of a certain age in dragon ball's history.

When you travel to an age you are travelling to a seperate timeline, which is the main reason for why Chronoa always refers to a single Time Scroll as a single timeline.

Chronoa calls them timelines and a time scroll represents a certain "age" as showed in Xenoverse so the two terms are clearly interchangeable.

Chronoa also stated the crystals are eras/ages in dragon ball's history


"You saw Goku and the rest in the chasm of time? You sure you weren't daydreaming? But that place is joined with many eras. It shouldn't even exist. It's not strange no matter what happens there."


When Kid Buu destroyed the timeline in xenoverse the crystal exploded


SSJ3 Goku vs Kid Buu fight starts at 5:17. But then Buu gets powered up (7:20) and age 774 explodes.


Also


the crystal are shown to explode and their explosions cohencide with changes in history.

Another thing to clarify more:

While it is true that Chronoa only says "Many eras" the implications of how the crystals are connected to the timelines suggest that it is interconnected with all the timelines in History, which would make the Crack of Time 2-A. Also the fact that Chronoa and Trunks stated that History was changing and everything would eventually collapse while showing the crystals exploding back up this.

Also as i said before The statement of history being changed is also present in the Japanese version. The Crack of Time is a time rift (Mira after escaping it in the Jap version calls it "Gap of time") that creates space time distortions and Chronoa stated that a time rift is actually separated from the original history.

Futhermore it's located outside of time
 
Last edited:
@Antvasima
"
I think a good way to visualize this would be by imagining two separate multiverses, each comprised of infinite universes; if you rearrange these two so that they become a single multiverse, the resulting structure will have the exact same amount of universes as the ones we previously had. So, destroying two separate infinite multiverses is more of a range feat than anything, as I see it."

Only this. At least this is what i found. I think in the Yogiri vs Madoka thread was also mentioned the distance between two multiverses.
 

Antvasima

VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Sysop
100,078
20,979
But Ultima did not mention anything about that destroying several 2-A structures would qualify as "At least Multiversal+, possibly Low Complex Multiversal" going by your quote.
 
1,122
286
I don't think the OP wanted to upgrade DBS' range to Low Complex Multiversal, but just a simple above baseline 2-A range. Oh, and I believe they also wanted to add an "At least" to the Multiversal Range. Changing from a simple "Multiversal+" to "At least Multiversal+"
 

The_real_cal_howard

Read my comic
VS Battles
Sysop
39,154
10,490
Several 2-A structures are still just 2-A.

Also, we should close this thread, as only one revision per verse is allowed at a specific time.
I’ll address the former some other day but why is the latter rule still in place? It’s been over a month.
 

Antvasima

VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Sysop
100,078
20,979
Because we are still being overwhelmed with CRTs, or at least I am, and I do not get sufficient help to handle them all. We are making up for a roughly 6 months long shutdown after all.

In addition, we have a few very extensive and necessary site-spanning revisions coming up in the near future. We cannot handle any more threads than we already do, and skipping back and forth between several of them at once for the same verse would also be disorganised and confusing.
 
I don't think the OP wanted to upgrade DBS' range to Low Complex Multiversal, but just a simple above baseline 2-A range. Oh, and I believe they also wanted to add an "At least" to the Multiversal Range. Changing from a simple "Multiversal+" to "At least Multiversal+"
^ this. Affecting 2 or more 2-A structures always granted "At least Multiversal+" range. Say Archie Sonic and Madoka. They have it for affecting 2 multiverses, why DB shouldn't? I presented the evidence for them having 2 2-A spaces.

I don't wanna be rude or anything,just pointing out.
 

Antvasima

VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Sysop
100,078
20,979
I don't think the OP wanted to upgrade DBS' range to Low Complex Multiversal, but just a simple above baseline 2-A range. Oh, and I believe they also wanted to add an "At least" to the Multiversal Range. Changing from a simple "Multiversal+" to "At least Multiversal+"
Our statistics do not work like that. Being above baseline does not warrant an "At least" rating when it comes to infinite numbers.

We should preferably close this thread.
 
@Antvasima

Here,look:


Madoka,Archie,DC all have the "at least" on the range, so why DB shouldn't?

Also Range doesn't work like AP. There's still an unknown distance between two 2 multiverses. The thread we made was specifically abou AP, hence why i called it "2-As AP standard"

Also i don't wanna add any "Possibly Low Complex Multiversal" in the range.
 
Last edited:

Ultima_Reality

?????????
VS Battles
Sysop
Consultant
3,820
3,039
^ this. Affecting 2 or more 2-A structures always granted "At least Multiversal+" range. Say Archie Sonic and Madoka. They have it for affecting 2 multiverses, why DB shouldn't? I presented the evidence for them having 2 2-A spaces.
These profiles should probably just be changed, then. Sure, affecting multiple infinite multiverses is a better feat of range, but putting an "At least" modifier would imply that it can be higher, which in this case would mean Low 1-C range, something that a feat of this level doesn't even begin to approach.
 
1,122
286
Just a question before you go, but since destroying multiple 2-A doesn't grant anything above baseline 2-A in terms of AP, shouldn't it be the same for range?

Edit: Nvm, saw Ottavio's comment.
 
Last edited:
These profiles should probably just be changed, then. Sure, affecting multiple infinite multiverses is a better feat of range, but putting an "At least" modifier would imply that it can be higher, which in this case would mean Low 1-C range, something that a feat of this level doesn't even begin to approach.

Ok then. This thread only has one purpose now: to clarify that DB has more than 1 2-A set.

Should i list the profiles to fix that have that "At least"?
 

Ultima_Reality

?????????
VS Battles
Sysop
Consultant
3,820
3,039
Just a question before you go, but since destroying multiple 2-A doesn't grant anything above baseline 2-A in terms of AP, shouldn't it be the same for range?
Not necessarily, since you'd still be reaching through some manner of distance to affect these universes. Unknowable, yes, but still existent.

Should i list the profiles to fix that have that "At least"?
Probably best to leave that to a separate thread.
 

Antvasima

VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Sysop
100,078
20,979
These profiles should probably just be changed, then. Sure, affecting multiple infinite multiverses is a better feat of range, but putting an "At least" modifier would imply that it can be higher, which in this case would mean Low 1-C range, something that a feat of this level doesn't even begin to approach.
Agreed. Thank you for the help.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top