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Is the below information show enough properties, and nature, to be classified as a Type 1 Concept?
It is an "abstract essence" that is "independent of reality" so that satisifies Ultimas criteria.
Krama changes the nature of anything inside of it. It dictates the properties, and nature of anything it has inside of it. As it is 1 of the 2 "principles of the world/true nature of the world." It controls the "force" that govern reincarnation, to controlling the "force" that governs the causality to controlling the "force" that causes "flow." It controls every phenomenon in nature and even Binds everything as an achor to "reality." it also acts as an anchor to ensure "fate." is running its course.
Karma is the framework that makes up everything in existence, and that is shown to us. it is more fundamental than "The essence of an individual" as it resides deeper than "essence" and deeper, more fundamental than the mind, and soul. Of Which "This essence" holds the energy for people to use supernatural abilities and includes things like memories, life forces, and emotions. its completely independent of the multiverse because its the "force" that drives the multiverse through "change." This implies that it is completely independent of those realities, and it can exist without them as those realities can disappear, and be rebirthed inside of this "force." Karma is the reason for the whole cycle of Samsara.
Conceptual Manipulation as a power just boils down to "Is able to manipulate some abstract essence that defines and governs some aspect of physical reality and can thus enact changes in the latter as a result," and Type 1 just adds the requirement that this essence must also exist independently from the physical world. Both of those are things that Dreams in Chrono very much fit the bill for. So, manipulating them is either Conceptual Manipulation or something that in the end is functionally identical.
Chrono Revisions (Lavos, Dreams, AP)
So the Chrono profiles are relics from an old era. Thus they’re bad, so there are a few misconceptions that have sprung up from them. So as a TLDR. Lavos is getting toned down a bit in abilities Chrono Trigger is getting toned the **** up in AP Chrono Trigger gets a solid amount of resistances...vsbattles.com
It is an "abstract essence" that is "independent of reality" so that satisifies Ultimas criteria.
"However, concepts should be... general... to use a vague term. Concepts, in our usage of them, are to laws of nature, what laws of nature are to matter. They are the cause of the laws, in a certain sense, and dictate how they work. Or perhaps it would be better to say they are the cause of the properties of the objects which dictate, based on the laws, how things work."DontTalk (DT)
"Changing the property of a flame to make it cold mean you change the property "being hot" into the property "being cold". Meanwhile, concept manip would take the property "being hot" and let the flame remain hot. Instead, it would make it so that things that are hot behave like being cold.
If inverting gravity is gravity manipulation, but changing the nature of gravity is law manipultion, then inverting a property should be property manipulation, but changing the nature of the property itself would be concept manipulation. That might be a good way to put it."
Also DontTalk (TD)
"I mean, we could change Type 3 to that if everyone prefers, but I see quite a big difference between changing the property of something and changing the nature of the property (i.e. concept) itself. One thing affects the object, the other thing affects the property. The target is different. As said, like the difference between manipulating gravity and changing the nature of gravity itself.
As long as it's separated it probably isn't vastly important what it is listed as, but separated it should be." - DT
Conceptual Manipulation Clarifications/Revisions
Hello All, The topic of this discussion is in regards to how we treat conceptual manipulation and is sort of stemming from the current JjK hax revisions thread, and this incomplete thread discussing some of the concepts I am touching upon today. Essentially, we don't really have an avenue...vsbattles.com
Those aren't two separate definitions. It's two parts of the same definition. A Type 1 Concept has to be independent of reality and be a source of a property to those things that participate in them.
I'm not sure why you assume concepts can't participate in other concepts due to this definition. They don't have to be independent of other concepts, but from the governed reality i.e. the actual world. See this in contrast to Type 2 where alteration of every object governed can cause alteration of the concept.
Also, just in case, will point out that time, space and causality aren't concepts in themselves. They are actual non-abstract things. There are separate concepts of time, space and causality.
Concept Manip Type 1's Misaligned Definition
Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation is defined as: 1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it...vsbattles.com
Thing is, all of this could also apply for type 3. Type 2 is more for concepts that aren't just abstractions of a single thing and more for concepts that grant a property to reality at large (like "circleness" making all circles round.) Ichibe seems to deal more with individual names of people.
Like, changing the name Yhwach probably affected nobody else that was named Yhwach besides his target.
What to rank name based manipulations as? (Mostly Clash of Hexennacht, mentions Bleach and Medaka Box as precedence cases)
So, Clash of Hexennacht has a few users with the ability to mess with names. Specifically, they currently list the following: Conceptual Manipulation (Witches are capable of controlling names, names are the definition of things in themselves, and things exist because of names. Witches can...vsbattles.com
But on the general level, what we have to this point would be:
Manipulating names as abstract things is either concept type 3 or 2. Per default it's 3, but if there is proof that the character can modify a name to not just modify the properties given by the name to one target, but all targets in some governed reality that share that name, it would be 2.
Krama changes the nature of anything inside of it. It dictates the properties, and nature of anything it has inside of it. As it is 1 of the 2 "principles of the world/true nature of the world." It controls the "force" that govern reincarnation, to controlling the "force" that governs the causality to controlling the "force" that causes "flow." It controls every phenomenon in nature and even Binds everything as an achor to "reality." it also acts as an anchor to ensure "fate." is running its course.
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