• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact AKM sama if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • It is now possible for our members to pay for Supporter memberships that are free from advertisements.

    It is also very appreciated if regular visitors help with financing our community by making donations.

    Please click here to learn more.

Confluctor

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
5,892
3,338
I do personally hate using one or two justifications for such drastic statistics. Game verses have it easy compared to comics, huh But if everyone else is fine with it, then so am I. For now, at least
 

KLOL506

VS Battles
Calculation Group
13,579
8,368
Mid-Godly has like, 3 major sources and one source with 9+ scans, the PoC scan basically expands on that LMAO
 

Sir_Ovens

Resident Kitchen Appliance
VS Battles
Administrator
13,278
4,928
My biggest gripe is proving that PoC is canon considering it is to my knowledge, a limited region-locked release.

At best this would be secondary canon and no way should we be allowing supporting feats level material as main feats material.

But if you can prove PoC is canon, then I guess it would be fine on my end. Although I would like to clarify why the eightfold path thing would be considered real dimensions.
 

Antvasima

Maintenance worker
VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
129,728
35,645
My biggest gripe is proving that PoC is canon considering it is to my knowledge, a limited region-locked release.

At best this would be secondary canon and no way should we be allowing supporting feats level material as main feats material.

But if you can prove PoC is canon, then I guess it would be fine on my end. Although I would like to clarify why the eightfold path thing would be considered real dimensions.
Thank you for helping out. That makes sense to me.
 

KLOL506

VS Battles
Calculation Group
13,579
8,368
My biggest gripe is proving that PoC is canon considering it is to my knowledge, a limited region-locked release.

At best this would be secondary canon and no way should we be allowing supporting feats level material as main feats material.

But if you can prove PoC is canon, then I guess it would be fine on my end.
We... already did tho? In this exact CRT.
 
233
88
My biggest gripe is proving that PoC is canon considering it is to my knowledge, a limited region-locked release.

At best this would be secondary canon and no way should we be allowing supporting feats level material as main feats material.

But if you can prove PoC is canon, then I guess it would be fine on my end. Although I would like to clarify why the eightfold path thing would be considered real dimensions.
It was confirmed that both nebulajoy and capcom developed this game and stated in their official site that the events of that game is between dmc3 and dmc1with many references from the former like dante stating that he fought Cerberus and nevan before,pluto telling dante how he failed to save vergil,etc
 

KLOL506

VS Battles
Calculation Group
13,579
8,368
It was confirmed that both nebulajoy and capcom developed this game and stated in their official site that the events of that game is between dmc3 and dmc1with many references from the former like dante stating that he fought Cerberus and nevan before,pluto telling dante how he failed to save vergil,etc
4 articles straight from NebulaJoy's official site (Gotta translate some of them, but the story is crystal clear-cut), and the game itself heavily referencing to the past events of DMC3.
 
233
88
Here is dante talking how he is a bout fighting nevan for a second time
Here is pluto telling dante of how he didn't save vergil skip to 35:15
 

KLOL506

VS Battles
Calculation Group
13,579
8,368
Here are the articles from NebulaJoy's own sites confirming PoC's canonicity (They repeat the same words twice in their articles for some reason): Here, here, here and here (Gotta use translate, but the words are as clear as can be)
 
Last edited:
708
262
My biggest gripe is proving that PoC is canon considering it is to my knowledge, a limited region-locked release.
the game isn't china exclusive the devs are working on a global release

also PoC's been accepted as canon for quite a long time now, I'm not sure why no one brought this up when we made the thread about it, here's what we know :

-game's been called an orthodox sequel to the DMC Series (orthodox means canon AFAIK )

-game's is officially confirmed to take place between DMC 3 & 1

-the game's is supervised & directed by capcom, it says so on their website when you click learn more on PoC

the OP of this old thread has the sources for the stuff above + some more supporting evidence






-
 

LordGriffin1000

VS Battles
Administrator
10,433
3,275
When it comes to Devil May Cry PoC I'd rather not take part in it since I lack knowledge on the game and it pretty much gave the demons steroids with lore. Regardless, if the verse treats Higher Dimensions as our site requires them to, I don't see a problem with HD souls. From what I understand from previous threads, demons got conceptual stuff and can put each other down. My only real concern is that the from what I can recall, the Order of the Sword from Devil May Cry 4 could put down demons and they didn’t get back up. Sure they later empower themselves with demon juice but from what I remember they fought them before they did that so unless I'm mistaken (Haven't played DMC games in a while) or the Order of the Sword have High-Godly Regeneration Negation weapons that made it so the demons they killed didn't come right back.
 
233
88
From what I understand from previous threads, demons got conceptual stuff and can put each other down. My only real concern is that the from what I can recall, the Order of the Sword from Devil May Cry 4 could put down demons and they didn’t get back up. Sure they later empower themselves with demon juice but from what I remember they fought them before they did that so unless I'm mistaken (Haven't played DMC games in a while) or the Order of the Sword have High-Godly Regeneration Negation weapons that made it so the demons they killed didn't come right back.
I don't ever recall them fighting any demons before the demonic boost but they will still not get high godly regeneration negation because they only showed to kill low tier demons as the scan stated that only low tier demons can't regeneration on that level
 

KLOL506

VS Battles
Calculation Group
13,579
8,368
My only real concern is that the from what I can recall, the Order of the Sword from Devil May Cry 4 could put down demons and they didn’t get back up. Sure they later empower themselves with demon juice but from what I remember they fought them before they did that so unless I'm mistaken (Haven't played DMC games in a while) or the Order of the Sword have High-Godly Regeneration Negation weapons that made it so the demons they killed didn't come right back.
AFAIK the Order's lower ranks only kill low-tier demons, which are excluded from the High-Godly statement. Only superior officers are allowed to kill higher-tier demons.

Also the Order uses weapons forged from Demon bodies at times, but I think that's officer-level stuff.
 

LordGriffin1000

VS Battles
Administrator
10,433
3,275
I don't ever recall them fighting any demons before the demonic boost but they will still not get high godly regeneration negation because they only showed to kill low tier demons as the scan stated that only low tier demons can't regeneration on that level
AFAIK the Order's lower ranks only kill low-tier demons, which are excluded from the High-Godly statement. Only superior officers are allowed to kill higher-tier demons.

Also the Order uses weapons forged from Demon bodies at times, but I think that's officer-level stuff.
Fair point. I forgot we separated the demons physiology natural capabilities depending on their level
 
233
88
So why are the dimensions real then?
We aren't talking about the dimensions but more specifically the dimensionality of the soul itself since the proposal of it being AP changed to range only but if that still necessary then the same scan that talks about souls also states that they originate and come back from a higher dimension if that helps
 

Sir_Ovens

Resident Kitchen Appliance
VS Battles
Administrator
13,278
4,928
Is the Eightfold Path they're referring to here in reference to something? Because the scan by itself does not really tell me that their souls would be spatiotemporally 9D.

As for the High-Godly thing, I'm not really sure how it would canonically work since that means everyone has no trouble coming back from being killed, but obviously there are parts where lives are at stake so I'm going to need an explanation for that.
 
233
88
Is the Eightfold Path they're referring to here in reference to something? Because the scan by itself does not really tell me that their souls would be spatiotemporally 9D.
We don't know exactly know what eightfold path is in this context tho sevil speculated that it is referring to nirvana a dimension that exists in the demon realm and the scan is clear as it gets a basic nine dimensional form as Ultima said it only grant range and HDE
As for the High-Godly thing, I'm not really sure how it would canonically work since that means everyone has no trouble coming back from being killed, but obviously there are parts where lives are at stake so I'm going to need an explanation for that.
Firstly the scan about regeneration for demons clearly states that low tier demons can't do it thus they won't get high godly regeneration

Secondly regeneration negation is quite common ability in the verse with many characters and weapons showed to have it
 
Last edited:
233
88
So since the votes have changed let's summarize it once more

Agree:Ultima,elizhaa,DDM,confluctor,sir ovens,darkgrath,crimson,lordgriffin,ant(HDE)

Neutral:both ant and moritzva on high godly regeneration(tho moritzva is also leaning towards agreement)

Disagree:glass,moritzva(HDE)

I believe this is enough right?
 

Antvasima

Maintenance worker
VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
129,728
35,645
So since the votes have changed let's summarize it once more

Agree:Ultima,elizhaa,DDM,confluctor,sir ovens,darkgrath,crimson,lordgriffin,ant(HDE)

Neutral:both ant and moritzva on high godly regeneration(tho moritzva is also leaning towards agreement)

Disagree:glass,moritzva(HDE)

I believe this is enough right?
It is probably enough, yes.
 
6,863
1,363
I have seen people are confused on why we proposed High-Godly here among other stuff so I wanted to give a quick explanation about everything and how is presented in verse:

First of all Names

A Demon's name is something special, more important than other verses. We are told that To them a name is "truth"... more than those forms they take, it is said that the name of a demon is closer to its true substance, like heirs to a family they model themselves after the meaning of the name but this is only from the research Arkham has gathered, in reality the name and its significance is much more complex and deeper than that.

In reality the power of a name is much more, from the moment demons come into existence the names are the most sacred thing to them, they not only represent power but also the very concept of their own existence, basic principles that predate the creation of even the creation of the demon world itself.

These names and its importance goes beyond the scope of the demon world and you shall see why...

A Demon's soul

As you probably saw in the scan above, the name which is the most sacred thing for a demon as it is their very concept is nothing but a part of their souls. It manifests itself as part of the soul that forms them, and their dark hearts.

But there is more to the souls.

Souls are "objects" that hold many mysteries that neither Humans or Demons understand but that every soul has. The soul as we know now thanks to Peak of Combat is a basic nine-dimensional form, generally speaking, it originates from and returns to a higher dimension beyond the Eightfold Path. But that's not all as it contains the mind and memory, but also contains all the information of the body and its ancestors since ancient times.

This goes in line with what Arkham told us, if you recall, as the name (which demons mold themselves after) is nothing but just a part of the souls demons have.

In short a soul in Devil May Cry contains every aspect of existence for Demons, from minds to information and even their concept.

High Godly regeneration?

As for why we proposed this? With PoC info dumb we got another interesting data about demons.

They are creatures that have existed since before the creation of the human world, spawned by the primordial chaos that preceded reality and formed by the demon world. All but the weakest demons do not care what they lose, their bodies, their names, their souls or everything, as long as they persist they can regenerate and continue fighting without rest.

Demons are basically being whose existences predate even the basic principles of the demon world and as such they also predate the human world (which is our world) and all but the weakest of them can continue fighting even if they lose everything, body, mind, soul and name (concept), they will come back and continue their eternal fight.

This description is pretty much what we use as High-Godly currently since they can come back from the destruction of all their existence including their very concept.


Tier 1 souls?

As I explained above souls are not only stated to be a 9D object but they also come and go from a higher dimension, a higher dimension that is beyond the scope of the demon world as their name already predates even its more basic principles. This higher dimension most likely being the primordial chaos that spawned them, mind you this primordial chaos and the demon world aren't the same at least until poc goes against me

Just for clarification, the Demon World is an infinite sized place that dwarfs the existence of the Human World, with the latter being described as just a small ray of light that came into existence within the endless darkness. With names and soul by default being beyond it in a higher dimension, I think it qualifies for Tier 1 hax.
Basically the very last part
 
233
88
Basically for those who didn't get it since tony is lazy and drunk tony is saying that since 9D souls is accepted then the the following haxs will be upgraded to 1C because soul houses these aspects of their being as well(note only haxs not AP) which is soul manipulation,conceptual manipulation,mind manipulation,information manipulation and memory manipulation all these haxs that I mentioned will also upgraded to 1C[/S]
 
Last edited:

Antvasima

Maintenance worker
VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
129,728
35,645
Basically for those who didn't get it since tony is lazy and drunktony is saying that since 9D souls is accepted then the the following haxs will be upgraded to 1C because soul houses these aspects of their being as well(note only haxs not AP) which is soul manipulation,conceptual manipulation,mind manipulation,information manipulation and memory manipulation all these haxs that I mentioned will also upgraded to 1C
No characters will be upgraded to 1-C in any way, just get HDE and High-Godly regeneration.
 
6,863
1,363
Yeah the 9D thing does not constitute any real dimensions, so HDE will just be indeterminately higher than 3D.
Im lazy and this has gone for far too long but as things are we have:

Chaos: The primal existence that created demons, most likely this higher dimensional realm where the 9D soul are created and go back.

Demon World: The primordial darkness that created the Human World and gave shape to demons (It dwarfs the entirety of the Human world)

Human world: our human world :v

This 9D thing is basically the chaos stuff, this doesn't scale to AP for NOBODY, no one gets tier 1 AP but HAX instead as the soul is from that place.
 
Also for everyone's information so there is no confusion... this is all already accepted by mods on site and off site(Ultima, Elizhaa, Crimson). We just decided to postpone Demon Worlds AP for next thread in future.
This is NOT AP, just smurf hax for souls.

Also everything proposed for addition to profiles has been successfully indexed.
What we are doing now is just clarification informal question/answer thingy.
 
I not trying to stonewall the thread but
When all supporters (and in specific the original OP) agreed to go with this take?
You seem to be confused.
HDE is agreed on this thread based on a scan which says souls are 9D who originate and return to some higher dimension. Whatever its named in scan.
 
233
88
You seem to be confused.
HDE is agreed on this thread based on a scan which says souls are 9D who originate and return to some higher dimension. Whatever its named in scan.
I believe he is more referring that the higher dimension thing existing in the demon realm as tony is arguing to be beyond it
I not trying to stonewall the thread but
When all supporters (and in specific the original OP) agreed to go with this take?
Efite we gonna discuss it in later threads it's not like it will effect any of the proposals anyway
 
I believe he is more referring that the higher dimension thing existing in the demon realm as tony is arguing to be beyond it
That's been his stance since his very first post in last thread 2 months ago in November. Just look it up I guess. He opposed the Proposal and offered a different perspective.
I mean, to be more clear
The take where demon world and Chaos being separated worlds.
The scan says is verbatim doesn't it? They are mentioned separately. One created souls, second created their physical forms.
 
btw gil the mods that you have mentioned (Ultima,elizhaa and crimson) are the ones who accepted 1C smurf hax right?
My comment was in context of Tony's comment. More specifically a callback to when 1C was first accepted before. Tony cites the same logic before it was postponed.

Lets not cause anymore confusion here. I have discussed and contacted @Elizhaa just wait for their approval. Lets just be patient and stop meanwhile.
 
465
155
The scan says is verbatim doesn't it? They are mentioned separately. One created souls, second created their physical forms.
The only verbatim thing about the scan is it predates human world. Other scans implies the existence of chaos and demon world at the same time period, they shared the same level of ''relation'' as human world and demon world, demon world and nirvana realms etc. Another scan says The first light that originates the human world, divided human world from the demon world and also affected Chaos, making stones with full power of the original chaos (Yes it says original chaos), appear in the demon world.
Yes, they are separated realms, but not in the way tony is proposing.
 
What Tony is talking about is Chaos as void before creation. Exact same as God of War creation story.
What you and manga talk about are Chaos as in Chaos Manip hax performed by DW.
They are connected but not same. One is state of existence before creation....other is a property of another realm.

Chaos has more than one meaning in English, DMC uses both for different things in different context.
Scan for high godly talks about First one, so does Tony.
What you and manga are talking about is second.
 

KLOL506

VS Battles
Calculation Group
13,579
8,368
What Tony is talking about is Chaos as void before creation. Exact same as God of War creation story.
What you and manga talk about are Chaos as in Chaos Manip hax performed by DW.
They are connected but not same. One is state of existence before creation....other is a property of another realm.

Chaos has more than one meaning in English, DMC uses both for different things in different context.
Scan for high godly talks about First one, so does Tony.
What you and manga are talking about is second.
Don't you think that should be left for another CRT?

We all admit that the Chaos exists. Now whether that is the Demon World itself or a realm that predates the Demon World and exists separately from it, is another topic entirely. Y'all can tear each other's throats in that other thread.

We barely got 9-D HDE and Regen through, we still have the other Demon haxes to add as Sevil proposed in the previous thread that should've had met no resistance to begin with.

Other Abilities :

let's start with some new abilities of various low-level demons

fallen priest :
Existence Erasure and immortality type 5
Morning Banshee :
Immortality types 4 & 8 via being linked to their prey they can revive themselves even from death as long as their prey exists.
The angel of Damnation :
Curse Manipulation, Negation, and Healing
Kanigam :
Clairvoyance (Retrocognition Cosmic Awareness Precognition)

now. People with Sparda inheritance would get resistance to EE & Curse Manipulation. and Immortality negation types 4, 5 & 8 for being able to fight these demons without getting erased or cursed and for being able to kill the fallen priest & the morning banshee when she's linked to them. High tiers would get resistance to Kanigam's Precog as well

Now let's talk about Dante specifically in PoC he gets something called the book of demons. which seals its target's soul and transforms them into Data. he would gain sealing, absorption, Info analysis & Data manipulation from this. as well as another form of soul Manipulation. also people with Sparda inheritance would get resistance to it since it chooses its user based on if he's able to resist its power or not.
Y'all completely forgot about this.

Ignore the above abilities, seems like those have already been handled.
 
Last edited:
We all admit that the Chaos exists. Now whether that is the Demon World itself or a realm that predates the Demon World and exists separately from it, is another topic entirely.
There's only 2 outcomes. Either it is, or it isn't. Heads or Tails. By default it isn't same, as the scan says. Sevil tried to prove otherwise.. but postponed. As it stands and as we have already accepted, by default as the scan suggests they are separate.

So there is no room for debate here. What Tony said is already accepted by inevitable logical conclusions for scan.
Lets wait for Elizhaa and not cause any confusions here.

Y'all completely forgot about this.
Everything is added look at physiology page.
 

KLOL506

VS Battles
Calculation Group
13,579
8,368
There's only 2 outcomes. Either it is, or it isn't. Heads or Tails. By default it isn't same, as the scan says. Sevil tried to prove otherwise.. but postponed. As it stands and as we have already accepted, by default as the scan suggests they are separate.

So there is no room for debate here. What Tony said is already accepted by inevitable logical conclusions for scan.
Lets wait for Elizhaa and not cause any confusions here.
Aight.

Everything is added look at physiology page.
Yeah, my bad, sorry, I just checked.
 
465
155
What Tony is talking about is Chaos as void before creation. Exact same as God of War creation story.
What you and manga talk about are Chaos as in Chaos Manip hax performed by DW.
They are connected but not same. One is state of existence before creation....other is a property of another realm.

Chaos has more than one meaning in English, DMC uses both for different things in different context.
Scan for high godly talks about First one, so does Tony.
What you and manga are talking about is second.
Uhh not really
Chaos in the first panel of the manga is the same chaos here, not disagreeing with chaos hax since the second page of the manga does state that.
And Arkham in the manga is talking about how chaotic the conflict between demon world and human world was before sparda came.
The relation example, is just to show they have connection and isn't just two disconnected places. Which is my point.
 

Sir_Ovens

Resident Kitchen Appliance
VS Battles
Administrator
13,278
4,928
Yeah I'm saying your "9D hax" isn't real. Like the realm hasn't been proven to be of true dimensions. HDE is just a broad term for anything that isn't 3D.
 
10,499
4,075
Yea I know but if you took away the 9D statement scan then how can you say it's HDE since without the "basic nine dimensional form" statement from you where you gonna get HDE
4-D scaling to the Demon World I'd imagine since Demon Souls originate from there from what I recall.


I'm neutral on the 9-D soul thing myself, I'm just clarifying to be clear.
 
233
88
4-D scaling to the Demon World I'd imagine since Demon Souls originate from there from what I recall.


I'm neutral on the 9-D soul thing myself, I'm just clarifying to be clear.
Well here some news for ya tony and gilver are arguing that realm to exists beyond the demon realm
 
233
88
Plus nobody argued that demon realm is where they gonna get HDE since the demon realm itself isn't 4D but it's haxs since it can spread across space-time continuum
 
708
262
Yeah I'm saying your "9D hax" isn't real. Like the realm hasn't been proven to be of true dimensions. HDE is just a broad term for anything that isn't 3D.
The Soul It continues to hide mysteries that humans and demons don't understand, mysteries but every human has such. A basic nine-dimensional form, generally speaking, it originates from and returns to a higher dimension beyond the Eightfold Path. It not only contains the mind and memory, but also contains all the information of the body and its ancestors since ancient times
the statement is talking about Higher spatial Dimensions, not dimensions as in realms or string dimensions, so yes these are true dimensions.
 
Top