Discussing the validity of Genkai's 'small star' statement

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

In the manga Genkai says, "This is a spirit orb, a ball of vast energy compressed into a tiny volume. It will test you, physically and mentally, to determine if you can suceed me. If you can accept this energy-eqivalent to a tiny sun-into your body, and not be incinerated in the process, then you will have passed the test."



Now, "tiny sun" might seem like a hyperbole or mistranslation at first glace, but as seen in the original Japanese scan the kanji '少恒星' which means 'small fixed star' or just 'small star' is used so it supported

For this I created a calc and got Island level results: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Hagane_no_Saiyajin/Spirit_orb_AP

Now this may seem like an outlier but later on we see characters with continental to multi-continental feats, it does not seem out of reason for high B level youkai to be Island level

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to just be flowery language and not literally a tiny star.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to just be flowery language and not literally a tiny star.

Well Genkai did create the spirit orb (I think), so she would know how much energy would be in it, and considering her experience she does count as a reliable source, plus let's look at the last bit of the conversation 'なければその継承者の肉体は空気を入れすぎた風船のようにこつばみじんいなる'

'みじん' means atoms/particles, so it says that failing the test implies being ripped apart into atoms so it does support being a small star too.

Although if you can find a better translation of this sentence, I will be happy: 'この少恒星のようなエネルギーを受け入れるだけの器がなければその継承者の肉体は空気を入れすぎた風船のようにこつばみじんいなる'

 

[Nierre]

Following

 

[Antvasima]

I personally do not really mind, but how much of an upgrade would it be?

 

[Rez]

I personally do not really mind, but how much of an upgrade would it be?

Tournament of darkness Yusuke and anyone who scales to him will go from high 7-C to 6-C

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Intuitively it seems strange that something of that size with the same proportionate energy as our Sun would be so powerful though, given how large the Sun is in comparison. Has the calculation been accepted?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Has the calculation been accepted?

That's also what I'm trying to do with this thread, get the calculation evaluated to see if it can be accepted or not

And I kinda prefer if the calc member is a YYH fan too or knowledgable in YYH just for the input

 

[Nierre]

I think Migue is the only YYH fan that's also a calc member, but I believe he's on break

 

[Antvasima]

Well, he is still here, just considerably less active than usual. I can try asking him for a bit of help.

@Migue79

Would you be willing to evaluate this please?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Hagane_no_Saiyajin/Spirit_orb_AP

 

[Migue79]

Commented.

Also, like Ant said; I'm here at your services, but it's gonna take me longer to comment and get stuff done.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Commented.

Also, like Ant said; I'm here at your services, but it's gonna take me longer to comment and get stuff done.

Being Based as always.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I do not mind attempting a calculation, but I'm still super iffy about a small ball of light being compared to an actual star and assumed to have some sort of density. I have nothing against the idea of some significant upgrades as long as it's nothing super crazy, but there are plenty of policies about hand sized orbs, star densities, ect.

 

[Antvasima]

Medeus is probably correct. It seems safer to not use this feat then.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Well, there isn't exactly a consensus yet

Edit: I've tried to get a translation from r/translator and r/askjapan but I'm getting not responses

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

@Antvasima @DarkDragonMedeus I found a translation:

"Okay. The part that you are interested in is next. And you are feeling that is something wrong, right?

この小恒星のようなエネルギーを受け入れるだけの器がなければその継承者の肉体はこっぱみじんになる

At first, I correct scan data.

少恒星 -> 小恒星 (miniaturized fixed star)

こつばみじんいなる -> こっぱみじんになる (become to be broken into small fragments)

Next, I show you the difference between original line and translated line.

Original line said roughly "If you can not do X, you will be into small fragments. (Do you accept such a great risk?) ". The translated line said "If you can do X, you will pass the exam." Both were saying same things although stands on opposit stand of view. But the risk of original line was not translated.

Third, I show you basic structure of the original line.

器がなければ継承者の肉体はこっぱみじんになる

器がなければ - If you don't have a capacity enough to keep with your body and spirit as it is

継承者の肉体はこっぱみじんになる - your body will become to be broken into small fragments

Other parts are all modifying some of above words.

この小恒星のようなエネルギーを受け入れるだけの is modifying 器

この小恒星のような - such as this miniaturized fixed star

この小恒星のようなエネルギーを受け入れるだけの器 A capacity that can take in the big energy such as this miniaturized fixed star

空気を入れ過ぎた風船のように modifying こっぱみじんになる

空気を入れ過ぎた風船のように as if a balloon that was filled too many air exceeded that capacity

So この小恒星のようなエネルギーを受け入れるだけの器がなければその継承者の肉体はこっぱみじんになる means

If you don't have a capacity that can take in the big energy such as this miniaturized fixed star, your body will become to be broken into small fragments. (Do you accept such a great risk?)

or

If you don't have a capacity enough to keep with your body and spirit as it is after you will take in the big energy such as this miniaturized fixed star, your body will become to be broken into small fragments. (Do you accept such a great risk?)

It's your job to correct the unnaturalness of English."

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think Medeus?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, the translations may be correct, but it may not stop it from being flowery language. I'm not sure how we can properly calculate it even so given how inconsistent star density is. I know smaller stars in terms of volume usually have a lot more density; which Neutron stars are the smallest types of stars in terms of volume and roughly country sized. But the density is massive to the point where it has 4-B GBE. But the "Star comparison" just means it's a small orb of light that also burns like a star when touched. That's really all I can see from it; and I am iffy on us trying to treat it like an actual mini star.

If calc group members and specifically those knowledgeable on astronomy and star calculations want to attempt a calculation, they could. But anything higher than Sensui's 6-A to High 6-A statement would get it into outlandish territories.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the evaluation.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Well, the translations may be correct, but it may not stop it from being flowery language. I'm not sure how we can properly calculate it even so given how inconsistent star density is. I know smaller stars in terms of volume usually have a lot more density; which Neutron stars are the smallest types of stars in terms of volume and roughly country sized. But the density is massive to the point where it has 4-B GBE. But the "Star comparison" just means it's a small orb of light that also burns like a star when touched. That's really all I can see from it; and I am iffy on us trying to treat it like an actual mini star.

If calc group members and specifically those knowledgeable on astronomy and star calculations want to attempt a calculation, they could. But anything higher than Sensui's 6-A to High 6-A statement would get it into outlandish territories.

Well, it's only 6-C so far, nothing that contradicts the 6-A to High 6-A statements

It's safe to assume that it's like Father creating a star in FMA

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I haven't seen the work for the 6-C calculation and would also still prefer if a star GBE expert took a look at it. Sadly, DontTalkDT is the only remaining staff member I can think of who I remember knows how to properly calculate GBE of a star; AssaltWaffle and Kaltias would have been great but have both left the community a long time ago.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I haven't seen the work for the 6-C calculation and would also still prefer if a star GBE expert took a look at it. Sadly, DontTalkDT is the only remaining staff member I can think of who I remember knows how to properly calculate GBE of a star; AssaltWaffle and Kaltias would have been great but have both left the community a long time ago.

Would it be a good idea for him to do the same for Father's Sun feat too?

(DontTalkDT to Electrohead)

 

[Migue79]

Ik how to calculate the GBE of a Star, and a mini star that size probs won't have a GBE that exceeds, like, Tier 8 assuming it has the same density as our Sun which is a conservative estimate.

What the calc above calculated is the thermal radiation of the 'mini star', not the GBE.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I do not mind attempting a calculation, but I'm still super iffy about a small ball of light being compared to an actual star and assumed to have some sort of density

Wouldn't it be better to just use an atomization formula based on the statement rather than assume a literal tiny star.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody who are helping out.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Wouldn't it be better to just use an atomization formula based on the statement rather than assume a literal tiny star.

I did a quick calc of that for Yusuke's body (I found his weight was 180 lb on another wiki but I couldn't find the source for that) and I only got back 8-C results

 

[Qawsedf234]

Oh right it's subatomic destruction thst gets high results not atomization.

Well it is what it is.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Oh right it's subatomic destruction thst gets high results not atomization.

Well it is what it is.

High 7-C

edit: Although could someone get Yusuke's real weight for me? 180 lbs seem abitrary

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

What are the staff conclusions here so far?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

What are the staff conclusions here so far?

 

[Dalesean027]

None yet just discussion on how the calcing could work

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

@Qawsedf234 @DarkDragonMedeus

What do you think that we should do here? Should we close this thread?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

We're not even done here

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Never mind then.

 

[Qawsedf234]

If the question is "Do you believe its an actual small star" the answer to that is no in my view. I'm not really for any upgrade based on it at the moment.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the evaluation. I think that we can close this thread then.