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Destiny: The Ascendant Plane, Ontological Weapons and the Inquisition of Self

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In this CRT I want to discuss three topics that aren't properly represented on our pages, if at all: The Ascendant Plane’s effects, ontological weapons/attacks and the Inquisition of Self. Basically it’s mostly Hive related.



The Ascendant Plane​


The Ascendant Plane has a number of qualities that are relevant for our pages. They are as follows:
  • Subjective Reality (Anyone with any kind of say in the Ascendant Plane, even if it’s only about their own existence, should have this and maybe also resistance to it. This bit of lore is the most important and basic part of the Ascendant Plane in a nutshell. It’s important to keep this in mind for the rest of this list)
  • Madness Manipulation (The Sophia’s crew was driven to insanity merely from being exposed to portals leading to the Ascendant Plane. The reason the Dreadnaught is used as an example is that it contains Oryx’s Throne World, with it bleeding into the material universe)
  • Fusionism (Perhaps on a conceptual level since it’s specifically tied to their ‘shapes’)
  • Mind Manipulation
  • Existence Erasure
  • Maybe Conceptual Manipulation (Almost all the previously mentioned effects are displayed here. Mara is in danger of losing her sense of self and with it her very being, referencing her time in Oryx’s Throne. And when she recovers her identity she also solidifies her ‘shape’)
  • Either Incorporeality or Abstract Existence for the inhabitants (Basically depends on the conclusions about the previous abilities)
In short:

– Subjective Reality for any character with an Ascendant Plane/Outside of the material universe key.

– Resistance to Madness Manipulation, Fusionism, Mind manipulation, Existence Erasure and maybe Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) for anyone who is fine in the Ascendant Plane.

– Madness Manipulation, Fusionism, Mind manipulation, Existence Erasure and maybe Conceptual Manipulation should be noted for anyone who can BFR to the Ascendant Plane.

– Incorporeality or Abstract Existence for inhabitants of the Ascendant Plane.

One of the characters who is completely missing the Ascendant Plane resistances is Shin Malphur.



Ontological Weapons​


There’s a number of ontological attacks/weapons in Destiny and I think they should have Conceptual Manipulation and Information Manipulation.

Ontology is the branch of philosophy that studies concepts such as existence, being, becoming, and reality. It includes the questions of how entities are grouped into basic categories and which of these entities exist on the most fundamental level.

Ontologists often try to determine what the categories or highest kinds are and how they form a system of categories that provides an encompassing classification of all entities. Commonly proposed categories include substances, properties, relations, states of affairs and events. These categories are characterized by fundamental ontological concepts, like particularity and universality, abstractness and concreteness, or possibility and necessity. Of special interest is the concept of ontological dependence, which determines whether the entities of a category exist on the most fundamental level.

Within Destiny ontology is not merely a philosophy, but rather seems to refer to existence and its many layers. Reality as it is, you could say.

The Sword Logic is referred to as ontological and so is the Light, which (at least outside of material space) can manipulate information.

Weapons of Sorrow are ontological weapons and they are made with the Sword Logic and Hive magic, which both already have various forms of conceptual manipulation.

The Nine’s space is also called ontological, the same space where they altered reality and its laws, creating a world with different principles (such as a lack of death) to answer the Guardian’s question.

Taking, the ultimate manifestation of the Sword Logic and a power of Darkness, is an ontological weapon as well. Notably the word ‘shape’ is also consistently used in relation to Taking. A clear example of what such ‘shapes’ can do is the Taken Psion wich can duplicate itself with the ‘shape’ of division.

This means the following:

– Gorgons get Information Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation.

– Weapons of Sorrow and comparable Hive implement get Information Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation.

– Taking gets Information Manipulation.

– The Nine get Information Manipulation in their second key.

– Users of the Light and Darkness get non-combat applicable Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1).

– A number of characters gets more resistances/justifications for their resistances.



Inquisition of Self​


This one is the trickiest, because we have the least concrete information. The Inquisition of Self involves the dissection of layers of self. Notably it’s made out to be a special and heretical technique that is quite distinct from simple manipulation of the soul among the Hive. After all that’s something even unnotable Hive, who aren’t heretics, can do.

I will simply list all the relevant quotes so people can make their own conclusions.

So here they are:

– “Few have earned the knowledge required to navigate the dissection of a living essence.

Fewer still can excise the layers of self such that the vessel remains a viable cage for another's being.

– “The pain will be such that she will struggle—fight against the intrusion as her mind and essence are frayed and her body hollowed of life that it may serve another.

– “Azavath's truth, the all of her, torn free with a surgeon's grace.

Malkanth's ears bleed as her sister's unmaking reveals her being.

– “Malkanth braces as the pain of her sister's screams threatens to turn her mind to liquid.

But she is strong.

And almost finished.

Azavath's being was tied intimately to her purpose—to learn the Song, perfect her notes, write her own Aria, and become death. That she held so tightly to legends of the Song's true power surprised Malkanth.

– “For an instant, Malkanth holds her sister's essence. She wishes to say farewell. But just as quickly, the wisp that was her sister sparks and blinks out. Malkanth recoils.

Akrazul jumps from his altar, lunging at Malkanth.

Unflinching, Malkanth makes a single cut—deep, clean—tearing her brother's essence free from his physical self.

Akrazul's body crumples to the ground.

His soul is bigger and stronger than his sister's. Angrier. Meaner.

For an instant, Malkanth worries Azavath's vessel will be unfit to contain their brother's rage.

She shoves the Severed Knight's essence into Azavath's empty shell. Their sin is complete.

– “But her essence is not the whole of it. What of her gift? The melody that echoes in her soul is a rare treasure. So few are as purely connected to the pain of our being as those worthy of the Choir. Still, precious Azavath gives everything for you to be whole, trading her art for your rage, when rage is so easily born, so readily nurtured, so pathetically revered. But… such is the depth of her caring. Such is the folly of love, that we would surrender the best of our being, the entirety of our existence, to please those we cherish most.

– “Malkanth feels herself slide free from her body.
The exorcism is sudden and effortless.

Then come the whispers…

"I stoked your brother's fire—riled him that he might strike.
"I needed only the wound to tear you free.
"The piercing of your heart will take some mending, but your vessel is fit for what is to come.”

– “A lullaby hits the ear of Akrazul who is now Azavath.
As it shatters his essence, a tear crusts and clumps in the corner of his eye.
It felt good to let loose his wrath, but standing on the pile of his broken adversaries, he feels only relief, and love—and then he is gone.” (The lullaby is a Death song and it specifically shatters his essence)

My conclusion was that the Inquisition of Self involves:

– Soul Manipulation

– Mind Manipulation

– Life Manipulation

– Biological Manipulation

– Healing

– Information and/or Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2)


I’m not as sure about the last one though.

The relevant pages would be the Wizard and Savathün when I make hers.



Conclusions​

TBA
 
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Hey, nice job!

But shouldnt the Light and Darkness users have conceptual manipulation too?

“As a Lightbearer, your very thoughts propel an ontological force. Should you wish it, your sheer will could conjure...“ - Orin(19:47)
 
I suppose so, but it wouldn't normally have any offensive or defensive use, since that's just how they manifest Light and Darkness as elements and the like.
 
Just found a simple explanation of what brain stain is.


"- infection by a contagious idea."
 
I forgot to note that the non-combat applicable conceptual manipulation for Light and Darkness users would be type 1, while the other instances are type 2. Though I guess that was pretty obvious with a look at the Destiny pages.
 
I forgot to note that the non-combat applicable conceptual manipulation for Light and Darkness users would be type 1, while the other instances are type 2. Though I guess that was pretty obvious with a look at the Destiny pages.
So Combat Applicable is Type 2 while Non-Combat Applicable is Type 1?
 
I moreso meant all other mentions of Conceptual Manipulation in the OP, such as ontological weapons (due to a lack of feats on that level). As shown with Taking, it is possible for Type 1 to become combat-applicable, it's just rare.
 
I moreso meant all other mentions of Conceptual Manipulation in the OP, such as ontological weapons (due to a lack of feats on that level). As shown with Taking, it is possible for Type 1 to become combat-applicable, it's just rare.
Ah ok
 
I suppose so, but it wouldn't normally have any offensive or defensive use, since that's just how they manifest Light and Darkness as elements and the like.

Would it be necessarely non applicable tho?
For example, Guardians are able to shield themselves by using the Light :

" Fieldweave armor guards the body with invisible layers of the Warlock's own Light. "

"An armored helmet protects against fragmentation and gunshot, galvanized by the Titan's own Light."

"Your Light drives your armor. Do not speak of yourself as separate from the plate."
 
Pretty sure yes, considering non-esoteric attacks from non-paracausal characters and weapons can potentially get past their defenses.
 
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