• The VS Battles wiki celebrates its 10 year anniversary!

    Please click here for further information.
  • An important notice regarding the shutdown of our old forum, the wiki's conversion to the UCP system, and other issues.

    Please click here for further information.

Deathwing CRT of death...wing.

oh geez, freaking DEATHWING ive been wanting to do this CRT for awhile now, now i can finally do it.

Tier/AP/Dura/SS: Deathwing is 6-A, as he caused heavy damage to Azeroth when he awoke and was causing heavy damage to Azeroth during the Madness of Deathwing fight, unless we want to scale Deathwing to Archimonde and Kil'Jaden who both have planet-busting feats, but i dont think we should.

Classification: Dragon Aspect of Death and Former Dragon Aspect of Earth

Powers and Abilities: Give that damn dragon/elemental/thing type 2 immortality, in the Beyond the Dark Portal novel Deathwing has the plates on his chest(not elementium yet) torn open, and he basically says to Khadgar "all right, you won mage, ill be back though." and flies away to repair himself, and then there's Madness of DW where hes fighting with a gaping hole in his chest, which is pretty self-explanatory for type 2 immortality. now we get to resistances! first of all Deathwing does not resist magic, he counters it and he was actually essentially beaten BY low-level magic in the Beyond the Dark Portal novel, he counters magic thrown his way while laughing because hes a 16000+ year old dragon with a crap ton of experience with magic. and for the rest? well Fear Manipulation(the fear spell does not effect Deathwing), Mind Control(Priests cannot mind control Deathwing), Extreme Temperatures(the temperatures of Northrend and the Magma flowing through his veins do not effect him), and for "possibly/likely" Time manipulation from Norzdormu, Life Manipulation from Alextraza, and Dream/Sleep manipulation from Ysera, all three of these dragons likely have used their powers to try and stop Deathwing in the past

Speed: Unknown(at least until it is calced) travel speed, and at least Hypersonic+ Attack speeds and Reactions(is far superior to Dread Infernals)

Stamina: Extremely High(Comparable to Norzdormu, who watches over time with virtually no rest, and also fought a long battle between himself, Azeroths greatest adventurers, and the other Dragon Aspects and only being destroyed by being disintegrated after being gravely injured)

Weaknesses: Deathwing is rather overconfident and completely insane, and if the Elementium plates are removed from his body, he will be torn apart(as seen with the Madness of DW fight)

I think that covers everything, for now anyway.

as a side note. the only dragon aspect that would scale to this is Murozond, as the others have no feats of being truly comparable to Deathwing, while Murozond should be far superior to his our timeline self.
 
Last edited:
5,371
352
Might wanna add some Tags so people can actually find this. That being said, I know absolutely nothing about Warcraft so I can't agree or disagree.
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
I don't really get what you're gunning for with the Tier thing. If you're suggesting High 6-A, just bring forward a feat or calculation that's High 6-A. I personally believe it's highly possible, though I forget if I ever did a High 6-A calc for the man. Dragon aspects themselves were decidedly High 6-B, IIRC, when I worked through the verse in brief with Udl.

I mean. Okay.

Iffy on Immortality Type 2. Yeah, his body got fucked up beyond belief, but it's not like he was ever in a state where he could not have otherwise survived (headless, organs destroyed, etc). Khadgar fucked up his armor specifically in that fight- an impressive feat, mind you, but it wouldn't imply Type 2 Immortality for Deathwing. By the way, if you want to make this CRT official and actually have it applied, please go gather scans and quotes and such. You'd need to prove those resistances specifically.

We can't use Starfall for the main games unfortunately, though if it exists in game (personally don't remember) that'd work. TL;DR Blizzard has explicitly stated that the tabletop isn't canon to the core game. Sorry.

Stamina can be listed as "extremely high", sure. Man flies across multiple country-sized areas in one sitting and generally doesn't rest. Scans should be given here as well though I have no particular issue with this.

Weaknesses should be fine.
 
I don't really get what you're gunning for with the Tier thing. If you're suggesting High 6-A, just bring forward a feat or calculation that's High 6-A. I personally believe it's highly possible, though I forget if I ever did a High 6-A calc for the man. Dragon aspects themselves were decidedly High 6-B, IIRC, when I worked through the verse in brief with Udl.

I mean. Okay.

Iffy on Immortality Type 2. Yeah, his body got fucked up beyond belief, but it's not like he was ever in a state where he could not have otherwise survived (headless, organs destroyed, etc). Khadgar fucked up his armor specifically in that fight- an impressive feat, mind you, but it wouldn't imply Type 2 Immortality for Deathwing. By the way, if you want to make this CRT official and actually have it applied, please go gather scans and quotes and such. You'd need to prove those resistances specifically.

We can't use Starfall for the main games unfortunately, though if it exists in game (personally don't remember) that'd work. TL;DR Blizzard has explicitly stated that the tabletop isn't canon to the core game. Sorry.

Stamina can be listed as "extremely high", sure. Man flies across multiple country-sized areas in one sitting and generally doesn't rest. Scans should be given here as well though I have no particular issue with this.

Weaknesses should be fine.
1: basically the feat for destroying the surface of a planet(in this case reshaping it), might just be 6-A however

2: that was me being a little nitpicky, so yeh

3: immortality might just be his ridiculous pain tolerance, but the feats stand. and im editing the resistances now

4: Starfall is a druid spell as seen here so it should be able to be used
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
1. He didn't do that. He just damaged it severely, bits of it more than others.

2. Aight.

3. Sure.

4. is it... actually falling stars? it reads like it's probably closer to meteors. "Falling stars" refers to meteors.
 
4. is it... actually falling stars? it reads like it's probably closer to meteors. "Falling stars" refers to meteors.

I don't think so, its a form of the Druids Light Manipulation, so yeah
 

AKM sama

Also Kinda Misunderstood
VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Human Resources
7,344
4,822
Bambu seems to make sense here. What he has approved so far seems okay to apply.
 
most of it is not getting screwed over by the adventurers and the other dragon aspects, or just his natural body structure. or as natural as it can be
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
most of it is not getting screwed over by the adventurers and the other dragon aspects, or just his natural body structure. or as natural as it can be
Yeah but is he actually just outright not affected by, say, a Death Knight's blood or disease abilities, or does he simply not care?
 
Yeah but is he actually just outright not affected by, say, a Death Knight's blood or disease abilities, or does he simply not care?
for Death Knights, I can most assuredly say he just doesn't care, and his physical makeup basically denies conventional Poisons and Diseases logically, which Death Knights don't use conventional diseases. which the only things from the classes that are actually listed as a resistance are: Fear Manipulation, Mind Control, and Soul Manipulation, because these three would screw over Deathwing if he didn't resist them

and speed is now Hypersonic+ For being far superior to Dread Infernals
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
Just an example. Bring evidence of each resistance claim you make and I'll be satisfied.

Okay?
 
Just an example. Bring evidence of each resistance claim you make and I'll be satisfied.

Okay?
that would be easy, unfortunately I don't play priests or warlocks and trying to dig for footage that uses either class outside of a solo video where they are just trying to nuke the dragon to death is not really a good strategy. that and a glitch on Spine makes it nigh impossible for me to get to madness, where your not just trying to take off Elementium plates, and by logic Deathwings blood would resist the three from Adventurers anyway.
 

Ogbunabali

VS Battles
Discussion Moderator
4,734
1,140
Does he really need video evidence of this? Every boss in the game is immune to cc.

It'd be more important to focus on whether we should count that as they should get a resistance or game mechanics. Although I think we just give resistances to characters in these scenarios.
 
Does he really need video evidence of this? Every boss in the game is immune to cc.

It'd be more important to focus on whether we should count that as they should get a resistance or game mechanics. Although I think we just give resistances to characters in these scenarios.
^^^ also the soul manipulation comes from Fel magic, which I think attacks the soul directly if I remember correctly.
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
Does he really need video evidence of this? Every boss in the game is immune to cc.

It'd be more important to focus on whether we should count that as they should get a resistance or game mechanics. Although I think we just give resistances to characters in these scenarios.
Not everything he mentioned is crowd control though? So yeah, evidence would absolutely need to be provided.
 

Ogbunabali

VS Battles
Discussion Moderator
4,734
1,140
I think it was that Fel magic required souls in order to be used rather than it attacks the souls directly (why warlocks need soul shards). Fel magic can be used to attack/manipulate the soul as well, but I don't think it's done automatically. Unless you have some scans for that.

But there's other spells in the game that attack the soul, like Soul Reaper for DKs, Schism by Priests, Drain Soul for Warlocks, and some other ones I can't recall right now. He kinda shrugs them off like regular attacks (could be argued game mechanics, it's a fair argument), but they do still affect him, so idk if we'd count that as resistance.

Not everything he mentioned is crowd control though? So yeah, evidence would absolutely need to be provided.
Fear and MC is cc though. Only Soul Manip isn't. Do you still want a video for those two?
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
The OP, dog.

"now we get to resistances! first of all Deathwing does not resist magic, he counters it and he was actually essentially beaten BY low-level magic in the Beyond the Dark Portal novel, he counters magic thrown his way while laughing because hes a 16000+ year old dragon with a crap ton of experience with magic. and for the rest? well Fear Manipulation(the fear spell does not effect Deathwing), Soul Manipulation(Warlocks and other Fel Magic users cannot destroy or rip out Deathwings soul), Mind Control(Priests cannot mind control Deathwing), Extreme Temperatures(the temperatures of Northrend and the Magma flowing through his veins do not effect him), Time manipulation from Norzdormu, Life Manipulation from Alextraza, and Dream/Sleep manipulation from Ysera, all three of these dragons cannot stop Deathwing with their powers, and Poison and Disease Manipulation(Conventional Poisons and Diseases dont work on Deathwing due to his Body Structure)"
 
The OP, dog.

"now we get to resistances! first of all Deathwing does not resist magic, he counters it and he was actually essentially beaten BY low-level magic in the Beyond the Dark Portal novel, he counters magic thrown his way while laughing because hes a 16000+ year old dragon with a crap ton of experience with magic. and for the rest? well Fear Manipulation(the fear spell does not effect Deathwing), Soul Manipulation(Warlocks and other Fel Magic users cannot destroy or rip out Deathwings soul), Mind Control(Priests cannot mind control Deathwing), Extreme Temperatures(the temperatures of Northrend and the Magma flowing through his veins do not effect him), Time manipulation from Norzdormu, Life Manipulation from Alextraza, and Dream/Sleep manipulation from Ysera, all three of these dragons cannot stop Deathwing with their powers, and Poison and Disease Manipulation(Conventional Poisons and Diseases dont work on Deathwing due to his Body Structure)"
remove the soul manipulation from that and were golden!

also do you think that normal poisons and Diseases would actually effect Deathwing, whos blood is magma that comes to life?

and the other Dragon Aspects should be able to screw over Deathwing big time if he didn't have some kind of resistance to those abilities, a power difference and losing some of their power wouldn't really change that.
 
Last edited:

Ogbunabali

VS Battles
Discussion Moderator
4,734
1,140
I thought you were referring to his comment right before yours with that.

But out of those Time Manip, Life Manip and Poison and Disease Manipulation (which you should already discussed from what I saw above), are dodgy. Fear, MC, Sleep, are all cc in the game that he's immune to from various classes. Soul Manip should either be discarded or discussed on whether we should treat cases like those as resistances I'm kinda on the fence of that.

Time and Life Manip, being resisted is weird because while could assume that Alextraza and Nozdormu would have used them against him, as they are their main powers at least for Nozdormu, but we just had a revision on how we treat Resistances and I don't think this would fall under those. Maybe at best as a possibly? Unless there's explicit scans that say they used them? I don't recall anything like that, but Cata was a very long time ago, so memory is not the best.
 
I thought you were referring to his comment right before yours with that.

But out of those Time Manip, Life Manip and Poison and Disease Manipulation (which you should already discussed from what I saw above), are dodgy. Fear, MC, Sleep, are all cc in the game that he's immune to from various classes. Soul Manip should either be discarded or discussed on whether we should treat cases like those as resistances I'm kinda on the fence of that.

Time and Life Manip, being resisted is weird because while could assume that Alextraza and Nozdormu would have used them against him, as they are their main powers at least for Nozdormu, but we just had a revision on how we treat Resistances and I don't think this would fall under those. Maybe at best as a possibly? Unless there's explicit scans that say they used them? I don't recall anything like that, but Cata was a very long time ago, so memory is not the best.
moved those resistances to "Possibly/Likely" it makes sense that DW would resist them, but its unknown for sure.
 
Last edited:
also you really think conventional poisons and Diseases would work on THAT?
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
"also you really think conventional poisons and Diseases would work on THAT?"

this is not an argument. proof is always needed.
 
"also you really think conventional poisons and Diseases would work on THAT?"

this is not an argument. proof is always needed.
okay, so your blood is magma that comes to life if separated from you and is from an elemental plane, common sense says that most conventional Diseases and Poisons would not work on you.
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
Sure, his physiology would likely not be applicable to a typical disease. This isn't the same as outright resistance to these factors.
 
5,371
352
Sure, his physiology would likely not be applicable to a typical disease. This isn't the same as outright resistance to these factors.
I don't care whether he gets anything or not, but I want to point out that I'm pretty sure Characters have Resistances to stuff like this for similar reasons.
 
also about type 2 immortality, Matt has type 2 for surviving getting shot in the head with an arrow, I'm fairly sure having a gaping hole in your chest or having your chest ripped open counts for type 2 immortality by those standards.
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
I don't care whether he gets anything or not, but I want to point out that I'm pretty sure Characters have Resistances to stuff like this for similar reasons.
It is my opinion that they shouldn't for the same reason that normal animals don't get said resistances. The disease itself being incompatible with different biologies is a weakness of the disease, not a resistance of the individual.
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
also about type 2 immortality, Matt has type 2 for surviving getting shot in the head with an arrow, I'm fairly sure having a gaping hole in your chest or having your chest ripped open counts for type 2 immortality by those standards.
First off, a human having an arrow in their head is a much more significant threat than what Deathwing was facing. That's where your brain is. Your head volume is largely brain.

Having a chest wound is not comparable.
 

AKM sama

Also Kinda Misunderstood
VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Human Resources
7,344
4,822
also you really think conventional poisons and Diseases would work on THAT?
If you're giving resistances and stuff simply based on that fact, then I would bring up Surtur. He is also like that but you don't see stuff like this listed on his pages.

If the character hasn't resisted those things, then you should not mention it. Yes common sense dictates what you're saying and you can follow that common sense in vs threads, that will just boil down to his physiology.
 

Ogbunabali

VS Battles
Discussion Moderator
4,734
1,140
Yeah, disease and poisons do work on him in the boss fight (Rogue's poisons and Priest and DK's diseases). While it could be assumed he should resist those based on his physiology, we aren't given any direct statements for that and gameplay just outright disagrees.
 

AKM sama

Also Kinda Misunderstood
VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Human Resources
7,344
4,822
Then I don't think it should be added.
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
Then yeah, no, he doesn't have resistance to those.
 
It is my opinion that they shouldn't for the same reason that normal animals don't get said resistances. The disease itself being incompatible with different biologies is a weakness of the disease, not a resistance of the individual.
then start the CRT to get rid of The Snatchers death and disease manipulation resistance, cause he currently is a shining example of physiology=resistance
 

AKM sama

Also Kinda Misunderstood
VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Human Resources
7,344
4,822
Anyway, whatever changes were accepted can be applied now.
 
Anyway, whatever changes were accepted can be applied now.
unless some resistances are being argued IE: Mind Control and fear manip(extreme temps weren't really discussed), and if you accept it the other dragon aspect abilities can be put on a "possibly" its fine if no dice, i wanted something to be added to deathwings profile, and the resistance to magic is going to be removed, so all is good for me!
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
No to the abilities from other Dragon Aspects.

What's accepted at the moment, if only due to common knowledge rather than actual tangible evidence, is resistance to Fear Manip, Mind Manip, and Extreme Temperatures. In addition, his stamina may be upgraded.
 
No to the abilities from other Dragon Aspects.

What's accepted at the moment, if only due to common knowledge rather than actual tangible evidence, is resistance to Fear Manip, Mind Manip, and Extreme Temperatures. In addition, his stamina may be upgraded.
Perfect! Then this CRT can be concluded, other then a "likely higher" for deathwings tier, everything is amazing!
 
5,533
715
There is a lot of statements about Light and being able to dodge it is fairly common.

One (Celestial Energy is just a fancy way of saying Sun energy), two, three (Admittedly, I'm not entirely sure if you can dodge this one)
 
There is a lot of statements about Light and being able to dodge it is fairly common.

One (Celestial Energy is just a fancy way of saying Sun energy), two, three (Admittedly, I'm not entirely sure if you can dodge this one)
Does Deathwing or those that he can tag have feats of this? cause otherwise hes Hypersonic+ for being FAR superior to Dread infernals.
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
There is a lot of statements about Light and being able to dodge it is fairly common.

One (Celestial Energy is just a fancy way of saying Sun energy), two, three (Admittedly, I'm not entirely sure if you can dodge this one)
First one says celestial energy- I know you claim this is "sun energy" but the sun has... a lot of energy. That isn't light. Or lightspeed.

Others are valid light though I'd need proof of dodging. After that, a calc can be had.
 
First one says celestial energy- I know you claim this is "sun energy" but the sun has... a lot of energy. That isn't light. Or lightspeed.

Others are valid light though I'd need proof of dodging. After that, a calc can be had.
My personal recommendation for this is to scan PVP with the second and third abilities or scan wowhead more for info on those
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
My personal recommendation for this is to scan PVP with the second and third abilities or scan wowhead more for info on those
That recommendation would go to you. I don't play WoW anymore, nor am I going to scan through videos, no offense. If that evidence can be brought forward, I'd happily do a calc.
 

Ogbunabali

VS Battles
Discussion Moderator
4,734
1,140
Using in game spells in order to prove dodging is iffy. Especially since it's kinda unprovable because it's a target based game the attacks always hit you and always go through you, the only way to "dodge" them is through literally the "dodge mechanic". Which has the same beam hit you, but just not deal any damage and your character saying "dodge". And at high level, unlike the old days, now you're hit capped by default so the only way to actually reliable dodge is if you attack someone higher level than you where you can't hit them with any spells whatsoever besides luck.

And I can't recall any cutscenes with druid spells being dodged, maybe there's something in the books but I haven't read much any the ones focusing on druids like Malfurion.
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
I'd take the game telling us we dodged as enough. Graphically it can be chalked up to limitations. But I do see your points, I suppose.
 

Ogbunabali

VS Battles
Discussion Moderator
4,734
1,140
Actually I just checked, and you can't dodge spells. The dodge mechanic only encompasses melee attacks, spells miss (which is why you needed to be hit capped). So even game mechanics wise is iffy.
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
Alright, then yeah, I'd say it wouldn't scale to movement speed in any sense.
 
1
0
Indeed, you cannot dodge spells in WoW, but that's obviously just game mechanics and not representative of the lore at all. Even then, I don't think anyone's ever dodged moonfire in lore. Or even used it in lore for that matter. The closest thing to that would be Tyrande using Starfall in a couple of cutscenes and ain't nobody dodging that. Not to mention that lightspeed Warcraft would be a hysterical outlier.
 

Mr._Bambu

Narcissistic Cannibal
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
13,639
3,822
Indeed, you cannot dodge spells in WoW, but that's obviously just game mechanics and not representative of the lore at all. Even then, I don't think anyone's ever dodged moonfire in lore. Or even used it in lore for that matter. The closest thing to that would be Tyrande using Starfall in a couple of cutscenes and ain't nobody dodging that. Not to mention that lightspeed Warcraft would be a hysterical outlier.
Sure, games aren't always indicative of lore, but if game mechanics displayed something the lore doesn't necessarily cover I would accept it. However, the conversation is moot if spells can't be dodged in those mechanics.

Is there anything else that needs doing here? Particularly asking @DaReaperMan
 
Sure, games aren't always indicative of lore, but if game mechanics displayed something the lore doesn't necessarily cover I would accept it. However, the conversation is moot if spells can't be dodged in those mechanics.

Is there anything else that needs doing here? Particularly asking @DaReaperMan
nope, then Deathwing is Hypersonic+ combat and reaction speed for being superior to Dread Infernals(i think it was calced at that)
 
Top