DBZ Maybe Tier Change, Take 2.

[ThePerpetual]

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?bt=210163

Since apparently people cannot discuss this the first time it's brought up without immediately calling someone salty for no reason at all, I'll put this here. You may discuss if you wish, please try to keep it civil.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Still not seeing what exactly could downgrade DBZ there.

 

[SSJGamer99]

Even if the Dragon Ball galaxies are the same size as ours, which they are, they also have the same number of galaxies as us. So I don't think there will be a downgrade.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Wasn't this already posted?

 

[ThePerpetual]

It was. I am reposting it, so that it may be civilly discussed.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Why are people trying to downgrade DBZ?

 

[Unclechairman]

Still not seeing what exactly could downgrade DBZ there.

It's another rendition of the "4 Galaxies" argument.

Basically, this guy tried to use the Jaco the Galactic Patrolman manga to calculate the size of the North Galaxy, and came out with it being the size of the Milky Way (or otherwise, an average galaxy). From there, he argues that the administrative units described in the Daizenshuu are in fact galaxy-size, and that since the East, West, and South galaxies can reasonably be expected to be of comparable size, the Dragon Ball universe is only the size of the sum total of four Milky Way-size galaxies, and thus is essentially a pocket universe, warrenting a downgrade of the God tiers to low 3-B at best.

When people attempted to bring up that screenshot of the North Galaxy in Super, he attempted to write it off as being "artistic license" based on the Saturn-like planet in the background and further bolstered by a post on the "Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale" trope by (wait for it...) Endless Mike.

Nevermind the fact that since the Daizenshuu explicitly states that the term "Galaxy" as used to describe the North, South, West, and East galaxies is not to be taken literally, the only way this argument could hold any water is if the galaxies that make up the North, West, South, and East galaxies are "micro galaxies", which would probably make each galaxy about the size of a solar system at best. Whis' projection of the twelve universes in the manga was not mentioned, although I can predict that he would probably write it off too as "artistic license" or worse, argue that it proves every universe in Dragon Ball is the size of four galaxies based on the fact that only four galaxies were explicitly shown, and that the glowing dots in the background cannot be assumed to be galaxies based on (again) "artistic license".

 

[Unclechairman]

Since apparently people cannot discuss this the first time it's brought up without immediately calling someone salty for no reason at all,

Where was this brought up before? I searched the forums, but can't find any recent thread in which this was recently argued. Was it on this site or somewhere else?

 

[The_Everlasting]

So... the downgrade isn't happening I take it? And the previous thread about it was removed, originally made by Overlord-Murasama.

 

[FanofRPGs]

OBD is being OBD

I think Boo Saga DBZ should be upgraded though. I did a calc using direct and canon powerscaling statements, and it makes Goku, Gotenks, and Super Boo large star level

 

[Unclechairman]

Should I highlight this so that more people will come to this thread, perhaps allowing it to get a proper resolution?

Otherwise, OP may think we are simply ignoring this thread because we don't want to downgrade Dragon Ball.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Aye, it was Overlord. He immediately got attacked by people claiming him to be salty and a dowplayer and all that bad stuff, he responded, and within the next 15 minutes or so it had already devolved so far that it he just deleted it.

Also, thank you @Unclechairman For the explanation and counterargument.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I am unsure of the point of this. The thread assumed DBU had four galaxies, and was simply stating that they were similar in size to the milky way.

The logic of the downgrade goes:

>dbz has 4 galaxies

>each galaxy is milky way sized

>thus dbz has 4 galaxies

Am I missing something?

 

[Unclechairman]

Yes, you are missing something. He used the Jaco the Galactic Patrolman manga to calc the size of the North Galaxy, which according to the Daizenshuu is an administrative sector comprising one-fourth of the universe, and came out with it being the size of the Milky Way, thus, the Dragon Ball universe is the size of four Milky Way-sized galaxies.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yes, you are missing something. He used the Jaco the Galactic Patrolman manga to calc the size of the North Galaxy, which according to the Daizenshuu is an administrative sector comprising one-fourth of the universe, and came out with it being the size of the Milky Way, thus, the Dragon Ball universe is the size of four Milky Way-sized galaxies.

So the DBU is four galaxies because...of Jaco?

 

[Unclechairman]

Apparently, it relies on the idea that Jaco the Galactic Patrolman takes place in the same universe as Dragon Ball because of his appearance in Resurrection of F.

 

[FanofRPGs]

Apparently, it relies on the idea that Jaco the Galactic Patrolman takes place in the same universe as Dragon Ball because of his appearance in Resurrection of F.

The Jaco manga was written by Akrira Toriyama

 

[PKThunderOkey]

okey

 

[Hiei312]

the daizenshu also states the galaxies to be infinite, ever expanding, and the universe to be based on star wars


the problem with arguments like these is that they cherry pick a source (daizenshus) for the information they want while completely ignoring everything else from that same source

 

[Aimenaltair]

Still not seeing what exactly could downgrade DBZ there.

It's another rendition of the "4 Galaxies" argument.
Basically, this guy tried to use the Jaco the Galactic Patrolman manga to calculate the size of the North Galaxy, and came out with it being the size of the Milky Way (or otherwise, an average galaxy). From there, he argues that the administrative units described in the Daizenshuu are in fact galaxy-size, and that since the East, West, and South galaxies can reasonably be expected to be of comparable size, the Dragon Ball universe is only the size of the sum total of four Milky Way-size galaxies, and thus is essentially a pocket universe, warrenting a downgrade of the God tiers to low 3-B at best.

When people attempted to bring up that screenshot of the North Galaxy in Super, he attempted to write it off as being "artistic license" based on the Saturn-like planet in the background and further bolstered by a post on the "Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale" trope by (wait for it...) Endless Mike.

Nevermind the fact that since the Daizenshuu explicitly states that the term "Galaxy" as used to describe the North, South, West, and East galaxies is not to be taken literally, the only way this argument could hold any water is if the galaxies that make up the North, West, South, and East galaxies are "micro galaxies", which would probably make each galaxy about the size of a solar system at best. Whis' projection of the twelve universes in the manga was not mentioned, although I can predict that he would probably write it off too as "artistic license" or worse, argue that it proves every universe in Dragon Ball is the size of four galaxies based on the fact that only four galaxies were explicitly shown, and that the glowing dots in the background cannot be assumed to be galaxies based on (again) "artistic license".

Is this a joke or is he serious?

and endless mike is a bigger joke than this thread, because his response to goku's and beerus universe busting punch was cuz elder kai is becoming wait for it senile, yes he assumed that elder kai is SENILE,he brought an argument out his a** to prove that it wasn't at all universal, this is a whole new level of retardness with all due respect op, quit the downplay and do something useful instead.

 

[Viturino]

Use the Daizenshuu when its convenient, states its inconsistent when needed, i've seen this game before, and im not playing it.

 

[Antvasima]

It is against the rules of this wiki to insult other forums or their members.

Anyway, I think that we should keep the highest DB tiers where they are currently placed.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Then there we go. Thanks, Antvasima

Who is in agreement, who is not?

 

[Unclechairman]

Are you suggesting we do a vote?

Because if we do that, most are obviously going to vote in favor of keeping the stats as they are.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Obviously I don't think anything should be changed.