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D&D Adventurer WIP Blog Pt. IV

Actually since it's pretty late and I only have a phone it's probably better to just wait for tomorrow to do everything. Unless you want to add the profile I guess.
 
I shall leave the honours to you. It can wait.
 
I wonder if a generic Devil profile is possible. As it's explicitly possible to go from the lowest Devil to the top with enough skill and effort.
 
I'd prefer to separate them into profiles individually, we've got a few up. Though something like a Baatorian civilization profile could be a thing (I'd also like to revisit that idea of an Ordning profile for giants, as well as maybe a Chaositech based civilization).
 
Should we include Titans/Lesser Titans in the giant profile? They're associated with them pretty heavily to my memory.
 
Yeah, titans would go on the Ordning. They're considered the top of the Ordning society anyways.
 
Nothing major, but this should confirm that in D&D "Life Essence" is equatable to the soul.

Devourerlore
 
D&D's fantasy kitchen sink means that it basically has all of the different non-physical stuff. Everyone has chi/ki, a soul (or spirit if you're an elf), and a psionic/astral part.
 
very true, it sorta has to hit every base to appeal to a bunch of different kinds of people looking for different stuff, but this does mean that when it says "life essence" (for example, with the Barghest), it'd be reasonable in context to assume it means the soul
 
Nice. Although I thought that there was a lot more than just three psion classes. At least in 3e and 4e.
 
3e has a good amount. Psion, Wilder, Soulknife, etc. Though a bunch of them hardly use actual psionic powers and instead have some shtick (Soulknife creates mindblades)
 
well for the 4e classes. there are 4 psionic classes. The Psion, the Ardent, the Battlemind, and the Monk. But I do not know if we should include the 4e Monk in with Composite Psion.
 
Monks are weird. They had psionic powers in 1e as well. But considering the other editions don't give them those powers 8ts like 3 vs 2 in terms of consistency.
 
oh this reminded me. I know the flavor text from 4e stuff can be vague. But would this count as some form of Matter Manipulation? As the attack is stated to disrupt the substance of the target.
 
Well it is a psionic power and for the most part those are pretty scientific or scientific based. So it wouldn't shock me if it was.
 
Actually I need to add Matter Manipulation resistance since you can resist stuff like that

bugger
 
Is this a good place to ask why Drizzt Do'Urden has Island Level durability yet has been injured, quite severely, by a Level 9 Orc in at least one notable circumstance, as well as harmed by goblins, humans, drow, etc?

I've been mulling over why on Faerun the profiles presume AP=Durability and vice-versa for CR=Level in DnD profiles when this is provably fundamentally flawed and inaccurate.
 
that can still be PiS but frankly at that point that just means the orc has an extra AP boost somewhere
 
Even looking at the guy's page on the FR Wiki. It comes off like he was getting amped by his armor. As it stats the only reason he won was do to his indestructible armor.
 
@Bambu Thankfully no, he has explicit statistics in-game and the explicit feats in-writing. It's a blatant flaw in our system on VSBW.

@Dragon Armor does not increase AP. And when he lost the armor, he was still unbeaten by Drizzt.
 
I mean, no. It's more a flaw in logic to have a low-level'd character be comparable to a much higher level'd character, that doesn't make sense.
 
For reference, this is his official canon stats page. Level 9 Orc, consistently harms Drizzt, incapable of being bested by Drizzt. There's also a notable instance of a legitimately random, no-name Sahuagin harming Drizzt, as well as numerous instances of orcs, goblins, humans, drow, et all harming him.

The way our system is set up currently is just blatantly inaccurate for what power level D&D characters are truly at, simply put, so I was curious as to what the best way to re-align them more accurately would be.
 
@Bambu You can't just write it off as 'This doesn't fit how the Wiki operates thus I dismiss it'.

It's a consistent, canon thing. Hell, going by official stats pages a level 5 fighter with a Str of 18 can consistently harm Drizzt after all, just roll a 16 or higher.

It's inaccurate to call Drizzt Island Level and disingenuous to simply insist upon it in the face of evidence to the contrary imho
 
There isn't one. The fodder you mentioned is common, higher tier characters have to be put in danger by relatively easily accessible fodder in order for a sense of danger to be there. Hence why 9-Bs/9-As in Dark Souls can royally **** you up in-game, and hence why any book Tier 7 or greater character still raises that evil army.

The orc is just the creators dumping the base logic of the game, wherein this character is in every way statistically superior to this other character and yet still loses because lol.

Our system of measuring power is fine.
 
But it should. The Dungeon Master's Manuals even state in the XP areas that if your party is battling enemies of far higher CR compared to their level that you're probably doing it wrong and you're basically on your own in terms of rewarding them for such absurd difficulty. The game acknowledges our current measuring stick as a means of comparison. This singular example of poor logic on the part of a writer nor many more should discredit the system the game puts in place for just this.
 
It's not a singular example. I can find several for almost any Forgotten Realms character.

As to the battling higher CR, yeah that's as a group of adventurers fighting a monster that has a CR. Level does not equate to Challenge Rating far and wide, as anyone who's familiar with systems beyond 3.5e knows. A level 4 encounter (CR 4) is a good fight for Four level 4 characters. A level 4 character in 3.5e is CR 4. Therefore, one level 4 character.....equals four level 4 characters???

It's something that needs addressed, sorely, to maintain any semblance of accuracy
 
Not quite. CR equates to a reasonable challenge for those groups. Not dead equality. A level 4 is a reasonable challenge for a small group of level 4s that they can reasonably overcome. In your example you're claiming we should honestly consider this level 9 equatable to Drizzt. By your own metric this would mean an amped level 9 would fight Demogorgon and reasonably win.

We maintain a fine "semblance of accuracy". Plot induced stupidity is plot induced stupidity.
 
>By your own metric this would mean an amped level 9 would fight Demogorgon and reasonably win

Drizzt was incapable of harming Demogorgon by feats so I fail to see how you're arriving at that conclusion.

So you're maintaining that Drizzt fighting 4 copies of himself is a 'reasonable challenge' for the 4 exact copies of Drizzt, and that this is more accurate than simply accepting canon stats and feats?
 
I'm stating that they'd be able to fight each other and, actually, yes, by VSBW standards have a relatively fair fight as the only thing that changes is there are 4x the Attack Potency on the side of the clones. Easily falls within the fair fight range of 7.5x. The game acknowledges which side should win, but that doesn't negate the fact that they are shown to be comparable.

So yeah there's really just nothing wrong atm.
 
That's possibly the most absurd thing I've read in a long while that proclaimed to be logical.

Drizzt, with his two swords, fighting 4 explicit copies of himself, and this being a fair fight, is something you just realistically defended as 'reasonable'.

The fight would end within a second or two when he gets brutally impaled by 6 scimitar blades since the first two connect with Icingdeath and Vidrinath evenly since he's fighting himself.

There's quite a lot wrong with the statement that '4 copies of [X] versus [X], when they have all the same stats and powers is a fair fight for the one [X]'.

>The game acknowledges which side should win, but that doesn't negate the fact that they are shown to be comparable.

The game acknowledges which side should win, but that doesn't negate the fact that feat show them to be comparable.

We go by demonstrable, objective evidence. You're actively ignoring that and dismissing anything to the contrary as ipso facto PiS without any good basis for it. It's a bit illogical, here, honestly, since we both know the system quite well and you're pretty level-headed usually.
 
...sigh I just woke up so forgive me if my nerves are a bit short.

> You're actively ignoring that and dismissing anything to the contrary as ipso facto PiS without any good basis for it

Incorrect, you've given me the basis in that the character in question, a level nine orc, is fairly battling and consistently winning against Drizzt, who you have also proven, by the game's own metric, to be vastly, wildly superior. The basis is that by any statistics the game uses it admits that Drizzt is superior in everything except some aspect of the plot. Ergo, that is plot induced stupidity, even if it isn't stupid.

> The fight would end within a second or two when he gets brutally impaled by 6 scimitar blades since the first two connect with Icingdeath and Vidrinath evenly since he's fighting himself.

Agreed, I think the fight would finish very quickly. However that doesn't mean Drizzt would be unable to harm his clones and potentially kill them within a reasonable timeframe before dying. It is not fully impossible for him to win that fight, and by the metric used by VSBW at large, that would not be a stomp.
 
The statistics of the game don't automatically state 'Higher level = automatic win' anywhere nor do they imply it remotely, though. A level 12 wizard is fully capable of dying to a level 5 rogue in 3.5e if the wizard gets Sneak Attack'd due to their absurdly horrendous hit die for just one simple example.

>It is not fully impossible for him to win that fight, and by the metric used by VSBW at large, that would not be a stomp.

It really is fully impossible, full stop. You yourself above factored in 'it's 4x AP' but it's also 4x durability and 4x speed. You're honestly trying to attempt to claim that you could 'reasonably challenge' a clone of yourself that moves 4x faster, 4x as hard, and takes 4x as many hits as you do to put down? No, it's rationally, logically, and consistently absurd to even think of!

The 'Level = CR' rating is flawed and that simple example proves it. No one being, [X], can 'reasonably' fight 4 exact, precise clones of [X] and have any chance at victory, therefore it is not usable here. If you try to argue they have a chance, you're arguing by explicit VSBW rules that [X] scales to 4[X], and you go infinite immediately.
 
Of course they don't. They do make it clear that a higher level character is going to much more easily win vs a much lower level character. So a much higher level character being totally and unable to win against an unextraordinary lower level character consistently must mean there is another reason for this consistent loss, either lore or plot induced stupidity, which is about an inch apart from the former.

It's much more possible for a single, say, level 21, to beat four other level 21s of the exact same stats, than it is for a level 10 to beat said level 21. And no. It isn't 4x dura and 4x speed. It is 4x AP because you have four times the attacks to use it with, since that's active. All of them are moving singularly and can be felled with the same damage. So that bit is just wrong.

That doesn't actually relate to this, though, as you must admit that your idea of "well a much lower level character should be comparable to a much higher level character" is absurd whether you say level or CR, by any statistic in the game it doesn't make sense and ergo is a choice of the author/writers/etc and is just a plot point, nothing more.
 
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