Completely unimportant speed minor upgrade for saitama, cosmic garou, and blast

[ZillertheBucko]

SIKE
The accepted calc for the shockwave speed of the sp^2 is 171547567751c
using the same logic as the speed rating for meteoric burst boros, the speed of the shockwaves should be the same as the speed of their fists clashing. Therfore, this should be the speed that garou, saitama, and blast scale to as all were capable of reacting to the sp^2 collision.

A possible counterargument is the fact that they appear to not know what happened, as shown here

However, there are multiple counterarguments for this
1. Since they were fighting eachother, they didn't expect blast and the crew to make the force of the sp^2 controlled by the portals, had it not been for that then the omnidirectional shockwave wouldn't have sent them to space, thus making their arrival on jupiter's moon unexpected
2. It would be quite unrealistic for them to not have noticed they had been travelling through space during that moment in time, considering the timeframe would have had to be far far shorter to blitz their reactions, and therefore ridiculously faster. However, it is more likely that them being in the middle of the insanely bright explosion made it hard for them to know what was going on outside of team blast's portal, so this is not really inconsistent. This also would explain blast and the team being confused as to what happened to them, since they were covered in light and heading in a direction in space far away from them.
3. It is also noteworthy that both of them seem to land on their feet, which would be quite unlikely had they not reacted before hitting the surface.

And although this does not effect the upgrade, I find the previous mftl+ value to be a bit fishy as well, as it assumes Garou was completely blitzed by it all, but that would be unlikely given that garou had copied him already, and saitama's AD had not yet reached the point of it making the fight into a stomp.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

and the resistance to light manipulation does not grant any special x ray vision, it just prevents them from going blind after seeing any lights
so it would not effect counter-counterpoint 2

 

[Kachon123]

Following.

 

[Tural2004]

I agree

 

[Nullflowerblush]

the "same logic"?
blast and his crew jettisoned the explosion of energy off into the cosmos with space manipulation.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

the "same logic"?
blast and his crew jettisoned the explosion of energy off into the cosmos with space manipulation.

They didn’t add more energy to the explosion so this doesn’t matter.

 

[Qawsedf234]

They didn’t add more energy to the explosion so this doesn’t matter.

They wouldn't need to. By focusing the blast they can increase velocity while not Influcing power. It's the same principle behind putting your finger over a hose which causes the water stream to go much further than if it was not covered at all.

Anyways I'm not for the upgrade. It's likely that no one really scales to the speed of the redirected energy at the moment.

 

[Aachintya31]

Their Attack Speed could scale to Half of the velocity of the shockwave but even that's debatable considering addition of two vectors is mostly non-linear.
I Don't get why their Travel/Flight Speed or Reaction Speed should scale to this.
If you'd say both reacted to each other then Blast should also scale

 

[Tural2004]

I am pretty sure that logic doesn't apply to energy and FTL speeds

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

They wouldn't need to. By focusing the blast they can increase velocity while not Influcing power. It's the same principle behind putting your finger over a hose which causes the water stream to go much further than if it was not covered at all.

Anyways I'm not for the upgrade. It's likely that no one really scales to the speed of the redirected energy at the moment.

How can velocity increase without increasing power? Using the hose analogy, the water hose also gets stronger and not just faster when you cover it with your finger.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

How can velocity increase without increasing power? Using the hose analogy, the water hose also gets stronger and not just faster when you cover it with your finger.

This
It’s the buildup of pressure from the constant water supply in the hose situation would cause it to gain power, but less water would be coming out as a result. In this situation, the ”mass” of the explosion would just become more dense as there is no energy lost (the entire explosion got teleported), so it would be impossible for it to gain speed, as that would be adding energy that doesn’t exist.

 

[Damage3245]

They wouldn't need to. By focusing the blast they can increase velocity while not Influcing power. It's the same principle behind putting your finger over a hose which causes the water stream to go much further than if it was not covered at all.

Anyways I'm not for the upgrade. It's likely that no one really scales to the speed of the redirected energy at the moment.

Agreed.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Agreed.

This
It’s the buildup of pressure from the constant water supply in the hose situation would cause it to gain power, but less water would be coming out as a result. In this situation, the ”mass” of the explosion would just become more dense as there is no energy lost (the entire explosion got teleported), so it would be impossible for it to gain speed, as that would be adding energy that doesn’t exist.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Using the hose analogy, the water hose also gets stronger

The pressure and velocity increase, but the flow rate/volume is unchanged. The water moving through the hose is the same, it's just forced through a small point.

but less water would be coming out as a result.

The same amount of water comes put, just in a more forced rate. You'll fill up a bucket at the same rate as with an uncovered hose, it'll just be more energetic.

Overall I just don't think the speed scales to anyone. The Blast Crew focused and redirected the blast away, which doesn't mean the initial shockwave velocity was the same as the redirect velocity.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The pressure and velocity increase, but the flow rate/volume is unchanged. The water moving through the hose is the same, it's just forced through a small point.


The same amount of water comes put, just in a more forced rate. You'll fill up a bucket at the same rate as with an uncovered hose, it'll just be more energetic.

Overall I just don't think the speed scales to anyone. The Blast Crew focused and redirected the blast away, which doesn't mean the initial shockwave velocity was the same as the redirect velocity.

I mean the rate of water coming out remains the same, but it has to come out faster due to less volume of water being able to fit through, since not all the water can come out at once
in the case of the explosion tho, all of it fit through the portal, it was just compressed
The amount of water coming out decreases but pressure increases making KE stay the same. In this case, the amount of explosion remains the same, and so does the kinetic energy, therefore the pressure is unchanged as well.
The hose is constantly pushing it by adding more moving water, and therefore more energy, but in this case it’s just the same explosion, the energy wouldn’t change, and therefore the speed wouldn’t
you’d have to say that it lost mass for it to have gained speed

 

[ZillertheBucko]

But either way, they still landed on their feet on io so Saitama and Garou’s reactions would still scale fully at least

 

[Aachintya31]

Actually Hoses/pipe analogy should not be used because here velocity >>>> Area.
Velocities above SOL breaks equation of continuity.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

If that’s true then would that mean this gets accepted or not

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Bump

 

[BOEGVELD]

Disagree. They could not react to the blast, so this seems unnecessary.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Disagree. They could not react to the blast, so this seems unnecessary.

you clearly did not read the counterarguments in the original post

 

[BOEGVELD]

They don't prove anything. Them being unable to react remains a fact.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

They don't prove anything. Them being unable to react remains a fact.

idk if you're a troll or just too new, but typically around here we give arguments instead of blindly dismissing things

 

[Qawsedf234]

As I said I don't think we should scale them to the redirected energies' speed.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

As I said I don't think we should scale them to the redirected energies' speed.

and as I said it'd be impossible for the redirecting to increase the speed. No energy was added so it couldn't gotten faster

 

[Qawsedf234]

No energy was added so it couldn't gotten faster

It's about volume and area. By forcing the volume and area to be smaller, speed would be decreased as long as density isn't also changed.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

It's about volume and area. By forcing the volume and area to be smaller, speed would be decreased as long as density isn't also changed.

the mass from the explosion would have remained the same, as blast team was unable to seal it and therfore couldn't get rid of any of it
the same mass of the explosion was present, the only thing that changed was that it became more compact
you would have to be asserting that some of the mass just disappeared or more energy from an outside source was added to it

 

[ZillertheBucko]

and besides, how would it explain how saitama and garou land on their feet if they were really blitzed so hard by it?

 

[Qawsedf234]

the mass from the explosion would have remained the same,

Therefore, as I said, the area was changed and the velocity was increased because of it.

I'm just not seeing a speed upgrade for Blast and crew for the redirected energy wave.

how would it explain how saitama and garou land on their feet if they were really blitzed so hard by it?

The first panel where we see Garou he's beginning to stand and he's unaware of his surroundings. Its more likely that he impacted Io and just stood up.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Therefore, as I said, the area was changed and the velocity was increased because of it.

I'm just not seeing a speed upgrade for Blast and crew for the redirected energy wave

you're still dodging the biggest point completely here
where would extra energy come from? There was nothing that was forcing extra energy into the system to increase the speed, and the speed can't increase
what the portal did was the equivalent of merging ten one pound weights from every direction, into one ten pound weight. Even after they became a ten pound weight you still wouldn't be able to lift it any easier or faster than lifting 10 1 pound weights at once
your point only works for a literal water hose, but you're not at all explaining how it could apply here

 

[Qawsedf234]

where would extra energy come from?

You don't require extra energy. If the amount remains the same, but the only method of expansion is a small focused space, the speed and pressure will increase due to the decrease of area. But the total system energy/volume would remain the same.

what the portal did was the equivalent of merging ten one pound weights from every direction, into one ten pound weight.

But its not weight, its a shockwave/energy attack.

but you're not at all explaining how it could apply here

I did, you just either didn't get it or you're suggesting it shouldn't apply.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

You don't require extra energy. If the amount remains the same, but the only method of expansion is a small focused space, the speed and pressure will increase due to the decrease of area. But the total system energy/volume would remain the same.

hmm I thought about it a bit more and you're right. Would the change in speed be calculatable or quantifiable in any way though?
either way garou and saitama still landed on their feet. Garou was never shown having been on the ground or having been hit on the head or anything, and especially not saitama, especially since genos' core remained undamaged which would require even more attention to react for

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

It's about volume and area. By forcing the volume and area to be smaller, speed would be decreased as long as density isn't also changed.

If we consider that true then they shouldn't scale to the AP for the same reason. Since the power of the attack would increase the more the speed increases.

 

[Aachintya31]

If we consider that true then they shouldn't scale to the AP for the same reason. Since the power of the attack would increase the more the speed increases.

High 5-A upgrade LMAO

 

[Kin201]

The energy beam itself was a bomb. Whether it traveled slow or fast, it should still eventually cause a 4-A to 3-C explosion that erased numerous star systems imo.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Wouldn’t it still be billions ftl? We could easily just account for the pressure buildup in the calc to determine the minimum speed they could be, since they’re obviously massively faster than that io speed feat
Like, covering up a water hose has never made it 10 million times stronger and faster, so I imagine it wouldn’t be that far off

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Wouldn’t it still be billions ftl? We could easily just account for the pressure buildup in the calc to determine the minimum speed they could be, since they’re obviously massively faster than that io speed feat
Like, covering up a water hose has never made it 10 million times stronger and faster, so I imagine it wouldn’t be that far off

How do you approach that in a case that is faster than light? Kinetic energy calculations definitely don't work the way they ususally do in a case like that.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I truly believe Ziller is not capable of basic comprehension when it comes to something they disagree.

There is no need for extra energy for it to become faster. You keep strawmanning to that same question when it's a non factor. It's just more energy per m³ due to compression, not hard to comprehend.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I truly believe Ziller is not capable of basic comprehension when it comes to something they disagree.

There is no need for extra energy for it to become faster. You keep strawmanning to that same question when it's a non factor. It's just more energy per m³ due to compression, not hard to comprehend.

Ok, I’d prefer if you shut the **** up and read instead of being a bitch about this

I quite literally said that I agreed with qawsed’s point earlier.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

How do you approach that in a case that is faster than light? Kinetic energy calculations definitely don't work the way they ususally do in a case like that.

Well the kinetic energy and the resulting speed are already known from the values given for AP and speed from the calc itself, so as far as I know the lightspeed thing wouldn’t change anything, we’d just need to find out the multiplier that the increase in pressure caused, like the water hose example.