Chris Jericho vs Junko Hokaze (Chris Jericho World Heavyweight Championship Open Challenge)

[DontTalkDT]

Chris vs Junko

Speed Equal

Fight takes place in this.

Who wins?

Chris: 0
Junko: 0

 

[RandomGuy2345]

1. Forgot to add that the fight is for the World Heavyweight Championship
2. You should've used an image of Jericho holding the World title.

Overall: Ya goofed

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Jokes aside, what can Junko do here?

 

[DemonicDude]

This is an interesting match up but first I need to read the profiles

 

[DontTalkDT]

Junko is 583 J while Chris is 300kJ, so Junko has a 1.94x advantage in AP.
LS advantage depends on whether we go with Low or High-End for Chris.

I think Junko can probably jump higher than Chris.
Her big ability advantage is her pretty much instantaneous healing factor. Anything that's just Mid-Low damage will immediately disappear, meaning that only Chris' biggest hits will deal any real damage.

Chris has the skill advantage. Junko isn't an unskilled fighter, but she isn't a world level professional either.
However, she still has surprises for Chris in store. From what I remember from the Nijun tournament WWE fighters are not too much into feints. Junko, meanwhile, fluently incorporates not just feints but even double feints into her fighting. Should be enough to throw Chris off.

I would also say that Junko is more "superhuman" than Chris in some ways. She can for example do this

I imagine Chris would have difficulty replicating a precision feat like smashing something apart and then kicking the rocks mid-air to create precise projectiles.
That's in general something Junko can make use of. She can smash the ring apart and use the debris for ranged attacks, which Chris doesn't really have.

 

[DemonicDude]

This is a battle of intelligence and skill then, Random has some Jericho skill feats I think so I'll wait.

 

[DontTalkDT]

This is a battle of intelligence and skill then, Random has some Jericho skill feats I think so I'll wait.

*A battle of intelligence, skill, AP difference, regeneration and range

Talking about intelligence, Junko can rival a supercomputer and goes to an elite school. So she has some of that. Also has some good instincts.

Edit: Oh and due to her intelligence and natural athletic sense she was able to replicate the martial arts techniques she saw in books or videos. That's how she learned martial arts. So she probably will learn from Chris as the fight goes on.

 

[DemonicDude]

Supercomputers are nothing people hack them on daily basis in WWE

 

[Pikaman]

I imagine Chris would have difficulty replicating a precision feat like smashing something apart and then kicking the rocks mid-air to create precise projectiles.
That's in general something Junko can make use of. She can smash the ring apart and use the debris for ranged attacks, which Chris doesn't really have.

Those look the size of a pebble, using the volume of one and then the density of stainless steel, which is the densest material used in a ring, you’d need to be launching those ring pieces at just over 789MPH to avoid being 7.6x weaker than Jericho. They have 0 chance of hurting him. And that’s using the ONE and relatively sparse resource found in a WWE ring, and that’s just to tickle him. Meaningful damage would need to be way faster.

 

[Pikaman]

Never thought I’d do a calc in a versus thread but here we are lol

 

[DontTalkDT]

Those look the size of a pebble, using the volume of one and then the density of stainless steel, which is the densest material used in a ring, you’d need to be launching those ring pieces at just over 789MPH to avoid being 7.6x weaker than Jericho. They have 0 chance of hurting him. And that’s using the ONE and relatively sparse resource found in a WWE ring, and that’s just to tickle him. Meaningful damage would need to be way faster.

Ehhhh... no. We consider AP and speed separate. Calculations like you are suggesting are against our KE rules.

 

[DemonicDude]

I love your calcs Pika.

 

[Pikaman]

Ehhhh... no. We consider AP and speed separate. Calculations like you are suggesting are against our KE rules.

I’m not necessarily using the mass and KE to find speed as a genuine number, I’m just saying it needs to be x fast to achieve the AP to touch Jericho to show how ridiculous it is they could. Have these pebbles ever been shown to hurt characters on Jericho’s level? If they have it sounds a massive outlier lol, crushing the rock is a nice feat, kicking the pebbles/rubble at high speeds would be lucky to manage 10-B I’d say

 

[DontTalkDT]

I’m not necessarily using the mass and KE to find speed as a genuine number, I’m just saying it needs to be x fast to achieve the AP to touch Jericho to show how ridiculous it is they could. Have these pebbles ever been shown to hurt characters on Jericho’s level? If they have it sounds a massive outlier lol, crushing the rock is a nice feat, kicking the pebbles/rubble at high speeds would be lucky to manage 10-B I’d say

By our rules you can have a slow projectile carry large energy. That's why we don't say "oh, these pebbles destroyed a city. They must be relativistic".
Ergo, you can't say "projectile can't be strong because it's not fast", as in fiction that's a thing. I mean, seriously, if anything you argue that we should upgrade Junko's projectile speed, but as said that's against the rules.

Heck, applying that logic to junko's fist I guess her fist can't be strong either unless we give her speed upgrades

She kicks the stones with 9-B power so the stones carry 9-B power.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

LS advantage depends on whether we go with Low or High-End for Chris.

High-End

Her big ability advantage is her pretty much instantaneous healing factor. Anything that's just Mid-Low damage will immediately disappear, meaning that only Chris' biggest hits will deal any real damage.

Jericho has many ways around this. A simple wrestling hold negates regen (which is something Jericho does in character compared to other wrestlers), and the Codebreaker is a KO move, and you need at least mid level regen in order to say "no" to getting KO'd.

However, she still has surprises for Chris in store. From what I remember from the Nijun tournament WWE fighters are not too much into feints. Junko, meanwhile, fluently incorporates not just feints but even double feints into her fighting. Should be enough to throw Chris off.

Jericho's IR counters this pretty well. It works offensively and defensively. I'll copy and paste some stuff I mentioned before about Jericho's IR.

Jericho was hit by Jeff Hardy's Twist of Fate (finishing move), and when Jeff went up to the top to hit the Swanton Bomb (his other finishing move), Jericho instinctively dodged it, which even left the commentators shocked (defensive IR).

Jericho was hit by Rey Mysterio's 619 (finishing maneuver), and when Rey Mysterio went up to a finishing move, Jericho was able to automatically counter into a Codebreaker. Jericho has done this on a few occasions while stunned. Here are more examples (offensive IR).

Jericho is going to be a bitch to hit here in this matchup.

I imagine Chris would have difficulty replicating a precision feat like smashing something apart and then kicking the rocks mid-air to create precise projectiles.
That's in general something Junko can make use of. She can smash the ring apart and use the debris for ranged attacks, which Chris doesn't really have.

Instinctive Reactions isn't going to help with dodging multiple projectiles coming your way (unless it does. If so, then great). But yeah, this'll definitely cause problems for Y2J here. I will say that they are weapons under the ring Jericho can use, such as steel chairs, steel ladders, tables, and much more. Jericho can use a chair or table to protect himself from getting hit.

A battle of intelligence

Jericho is very intelligent himself. He's very good at adapting to his opponents' fighting styles while in the middle of a match. He's very good at figuring out how his opponents fight.

skill

Which is an area Jericho holds a decent advantage in.

AP difference

Gap is fairly negligible, plus Jericho has his patent Codebreaker, which ends the fight when hit.

regeneration and range

I'll give Junko these advantages, but Jericho can somewhat make up for the range disadvantage by finding weapons under the ring.

 

[Pikaman]

She kicks the stones with 9-B power so the stones carry 9-B power.

Objects lose energy in the air through thermal energy, etc. as well as potential energy when it is still winding up or is winding down, unless every single pebble is hitting Jericho at the peak of its movement/speed it won’t carry the same energy, do we seriously just throw physics in the gutter for projectiles like this kind of stuff?

Also all of this assumes that these pebbles are gonna be steel, very, VERY little of a ring is steel, every other material is just too soft to do anything. Unless we’re arguing that material used is irrelevant in how much energy the pebbles carry, which makes 0 sense

This is also one technique, which requires destroying the ring, something that very rarely happens in WWE, a verse full of people with similar enough APs to Junko. Has she ever done this more than once? Would you describe it as in character? It seems a lot of boxes to tick in order to achieve what, a one time use minor range advantage on a weaker than normal attack?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Also all of this assumes that these pebbles are gonna be steel, very, VERY little of a ring is steel, every other material is just too soft to do anything. Unless we’re arguing that material used is irrelevant in how much energy the pebbles carry, which makes 0 sense

Not debating whether or not the pebbles are 9-B, but this is a very good point.

Hardly any of the ring is steel, so Junko doesn't have many ways to use the ring to her advantage.

 

[Pikaman]

Heck, applying that logic to junko's fist I guess her fist can't be strong either unless we give her speed upgrades

This isn’t a fair comparison, Junko is still treated as “human” though her abilities far exceed that of one. Of course her fists don’t carry those speeds because that’s unrealistic of a human, and despite her strength that is still of importance. Her fists being that strong despite that speed is a decision taken in the name of realism. The same limitations put on a human like character by creative decision making doesn’t apply to projectiles. I can get why the kinetic energy rules prevent exact numbers, but those pebbles are not bound by the same restrictions put on, yes, say, the fists of a human portrayed as belonging to the aforementioned species. They still have to generally follow the laws of physics, considering there’s no reason to free them from those boundaries like there is for not portraying a mostly normal human to be able to punch at ridiculous speeds

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Oh and due to her intelligence and natural athletic sense she was able to replicate the martial arts techniques she saw in books or videos. That's how she learned martial arts. So she probably will learn from Chris as the fight goes on.

Jericho can copy techniques as well (though it's usually the user's strongest attacks he copies).

 

[DontTalkDT]

Objects lose energy in the air through thermal energy, etc. as well as potential energy when it is still winding up or is winding down, unless every single pebble is hitting Jericho at the peak of its movement/speed it won’t carry the same energy, do we seriously just throw physics in the gutter for projectiles like this kind of stuff?

Are you suggesting that those projectiles shot over several meters distance will lose a relevant amount of their 9-B energy through friction? Nah. They don't even glow or otherwise display any indication of heat conversion.

What's next "it's not usable because at her strength the pebbles should shatter"? We try to quantify techniques through physics, not explain them away because their portrayal isn't realistic.

Want me to get into the physics of how crashing into tables is less impressive than landing on the ground as well?

Also all of this assumes that these pebbles are gonna be steel, very, VERY little of a ring is steel, every other material is just too soft to do anything. Unless we’re arguing that material used is irrelevant in how much energy the pebbles carry, which makes 0 sense

Softness is irrelevant to a projectile carrying 9-B energy. It's just like if you hit the water hard the water starts hurting like it's solid. Cushioning effects really don't work above certain thresholds.
And honestly, what are we talking here, wood? It's not like those would be wool projectiles and Junko will pick out the best ones.

Also, there is actually no actual rule against leaving the ring in this match...

This isn’t a fair comparison, Junko is still treated as “human” though her abilities far exceed that of one. Of course her fists don’t carry those speeds because that’s unrealistic of a human, and despite her strength that is still of importance. Her fists being that strong despite that speed is a decision taken in the name of realism. The same limitations put on a human like character by creative decision making doesn’t apply to projectiles. I can get why the kinetic energy rules prevent exact numbers, but those pebbles are not bound by the same restrictions put on, yes, say, the fists of a human portrayed as belonging to the aforementioned species. They still have to generally follow the laws of physics, considering there’s no reason to free them from those boundaries like there is for not portraying a mostly normal human to be able to punch at ridiculous speeds

You are suggesting standards the wiki doesn't have. We don't apply the rules in that regard different between projectiles and humans. A projectile can, by our standards, have more energy than its speed suggests. Sincerely, me, the guy who literally wrote the rules.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Sincerely, me, the guy who literally wrote the rules.

L rules

 

[Pikaman]

Snip

Eh, I’ll concede on the pebbles, I obviously don’t know about the standards as much as you do lmao, apologies for the length that had to go on for

 

[Pikaman]

Eh, I’ll concede on the pebbles, I obviously don’t know about the standards as much as you do lmao, apologies for the length that had to go on for

It is a bit weird that a pebble kicked by a character scales to that character, that’s all I’ll say lol

 

[DontTalkDT]

Eh, I’ll concede on the pebbles, I obviously don’t know about the standards as much as you do lmao, apologies for the length that had to go on for

No need to apologize. You would be surprised how often people end up arguing that I don't know the intention behind the rules I wrote lol

Anyways, to get back to the debate in itself:

High-End

Low-End
Nah, he can have that advantage. I'm pretty sure with her AP she can free herself from holds anyway... tbh light as the two are holds are difficult anyway, as they both can lift their combined weights.

Jericho has many ways around this. A simple wrestling hold negates regen (which is something Jericho does in character compared to other wrestlers), and the Codebreaker is a KO move, and you need at least mid level regen in order to say "no" to getting KO'd.

A hold negates regen? What? How? Like, if you can hold her in a way to incap her without hurting her maybe, but that aside I don't see how holds negate regen. (and Junko won't be incapped by holds for hours....)

And I'm not sure about the K.O. stuff. See Junko can actually her control over her own biological functions to prevent knock out techniques.

To quote from her profile: "[Junko] even resist Iruka Yumiya's light flash that knocks out people by inducing an abnormality in their brain's electric signals in their brains."

That aside, she can equally give Chris a concussion.

Jericho's IR counters this pretty well. It works offensively and defensively. I'll copy and paste some stuff I mentioned before about Jericho's IR.

Jericho was hit by Jeff Hardy's Twist of Fate (finishing move), and when Jeff went up to the top to hit the Swanton Bomb (his other finishing move), Jericho instinctively dodged it, which even left the commentators shocked (defensive IR).

Jericho was hit by Rey Mysterio's 619 (finishing maneuver), and when Rey Mysterio went up to a finishing move, Jericho was able to automatically counter into a Codebreaker. Jericho has done this on a few occasions while stunned. Here are more examples (offensive IR).

Jericho is going to be a bitch to hit here in this matchup.

I'm not sure IR actually counters feints at all, actually. Like, an instinctive reaction against a punch coming your way is to try to block the punch, but with a feint that is exactly the wrong reaction as that punch is the diversion. The trick of countering a double feint is to react only to the third attack, but if you react instinctively you would try to react to all three attacks, no?

Instinctive Reactions isn't going to help with dodging multiple projectiles coming your way (unless it does. If so, then great). But yeah, this'll definitely cause problems for Y2J here. I will say that they are weapons under the ring Jericho can use, such as steel chairs, steel ladders, tables, and much more. Jericho can use a chair or table to protect himself from getting hit.

Next he finds a rocket launcher in the audience.
I mean, if there are weapons that goes both ways then. Better projectiles for Junko to launch and she can use them as well.
...would the weapons even be durable enough to not shatter mid-battle? I mean, we are talking about a girl that can easily shatter walls.

Jericho is very intelligent himself. He's very good at adapting to his opponents' fighting styles while in the middle of a match. He's very good at figuring out how his opponents fight.

Yeah, same for Junko. She, in fact, has to analyze how the opponent's supernatural powers work during fights on top.

Gap is fairly negligible, plus Jericho has his patent Codebreaker, which ends the fight when hit.

I wouldn't call 2x negligible. Any hit from Junko counts for 2 of Chris basically... except that due to the regen, Chris' attacks doing less damage is actually extremely bad for him. Basically nothing except his strongest moves will likely do much of anything.
It should be said that Junko is also somewhat higher when going full power.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

No need to apologize. You would be surprised how often people end up arguing that I don't know the intention behind the rules I wrote lol

You're way too nice, DT.

Low-End

Nah, he can have that advantage. I'm pretty sure with her AP she can free herself from holds anyway... tbh light as the two are holds are difficult anyway, as they both can lift their combined weights.

AP doesn't necessarily help with LS. Gonna have to elaborate on that to convince me otherwise. Is Junko experienced with dealing with wrestling holds?

A hold negates regen? What? How? Like, if you can hold her in a way to incap her without hurting her maybe, but that aside I don't see how holds negate regen. (and Junko won't be incapped by holds for hours....)

Either you read that wrong, or I typed that wrong. I referenced Junko's regen, and how wrestling holds will negate that. Plus, mid-low isn't saving you from getting KO'd. Even if it takes hours for Junko to be incapped, she's not escaping the hold, and even when Jericho lets go, her limbs will be hurting like a bitch (especially with the Liontamer. The way the body is contorted in that hold will make it very painful).

And I'm not sure about the K.O. stuff. See Junko can actually her control over her own biological functions to prevent knock out techniques.

To quote from her profile: "[Junko] even resist Iruka Yumiya's light flash that knocks out people by inducing an abnormality in their brain's electric signals in their brains."

That Codebreaker is still doing a lot of damage. Keep in mind this move has taken down some of the best in the business, so Junko is going to be extremely vulnerable at best, and likely incapped at worst.

That aside, she can equally give Chris a concussion.

That's going to be pretty hard to, considering the skill + IR advantages Jericho holds. He can legit counter Junko's offense into his own.

I'm not sure IR actually counters feints at all, actually. Like, an instinctive reaction against a punch coming your way is to try to block the punch, but with a feint that is exactly the wrong reaction as that punch is the diversion. The trick of countering a double feint is to react only to the third attack, but if you react instinctively you would try to react to all three attacks, no?

What's stopping Jericho from just hitting a Codebreaker right then and there. Plus, an Instinctive Reaction isn't always a block. It can be a dodge, which is more often than not the case. I can see Jericho struggling with this a little bit, but he can counter it with the Codebreaker, which Junko won't see coming.

Next he finds a rocket launcher in the audience.

Jericho stomps FRA

I mean, if there are weapons that goes both ways then. Better projectiles for Junko to launch and she can use them as well.

Fair.

...would the weapons even be durable enough to not shatter mid-battle? I mean, we are talking about a girl that can easily shatter walls.

The weapons do more damage to wrestlers than the normal moves wrestlers pull off (other than the finishers), so most likely not.

Yeah, same for Junko. She, in fact, has to analyze how the opponent's supernatural powers work during fights on top.

But Jericho has no supernatural powers? I don't get what you mean here.

I wouldn't call 2x negligible. Any hit from Junko counts for 2 of Chris basically... except that due to the regen, Chris' attacks doing less damage is actually extremely bad for him.

The difference is 2x when you round it. The difference at best is somewhat recognizable, but nothing crazy to note about. Chris has his Liontamer, Walls of Jericho, Codebreaker, as well as any basic wrestling hold will bypass that regen.

Basically nothing except his strongest moves will likely do much of anything.

Read what I said above.

It should be said that Junko is also somewhat higher when going full power.

Still not enough to save her from getting put in a wrestling hold, Liontamer, Walls of Jericho, or getting hit with the Codebreaker.

Also, let's not forget about Jericho's Social Influencing.

 

[DemonicDude]

Want me to get into the physics of how crashing into tables is less impressive than landing on the ground as well?

I want to know how crashing into tables is less impressive than landing or being drove into the concrete ground head first ?

 

[DontTalkDT]

I want to know how crashing into tables is less impressive than landing or being drove into the concrete ground head first ?

If you have to know: Tables technically cushion the fall. Due to them breaking the deacceleration is more gradual than when falling on an unrelenting stone floor, which diminishes the force acting on the body.

AP doesn't necessarily help with LS. Gonna have to elaborate on that to convince me otherwise. Is Junko experienced with dealing with wrestling holds?

If you are in a hold, a good way of freeing yourself is hitting the opponent until they let you go. Typical holds make it harder to do effective hits, but not impossible. And if you have an AP advantage what's usually lesser hits would still be effective.

To that comes the LS thing. Like, say he has her in a hold that blocks an arm and both legs (somehow). Then Junko could still use her remaining hand to lift the both up or even throw them into the air. And from there she can basically repeatedly crash him (well, them both, but with him below) into the ground, which would continue to deal lots of damage each time.

Either you read that wrong, or I typed that wrong. I referenced Junko's regen, and how wrestling holds will negate that. Plus, mid-low isn't saving you from getting KO'd. Even if it takes hours for Junko to be incapped, she's not escaping the hold, and even when Jericho lets go, her limbs will be hurting like a bitch (especially with the Liontamer. The way the body is contorted in that hold will make it very painful).

I still don't understand how a wrestling hold will negate regen.

What the pain is concerned... that will immediately stop as her body regenerates the damage? I mean, Junko could probably also shut it off seeing how her control over her own biology allows her to control her senses (although she only demonstrated strengthening it tbf). And she can take a little pain. Like the one time where she basically just ran through lasers.

The Liontamer is a hold that will not work here, in any case. If you brought Junko into the upside down position, she would just push herself and Chris up with her hands, as her LS is superior to their combined weight. (unless you can anchor yourself to the ground or fly you can't push something down with more force than your weight)

That Codebreaker is still doing a lot of damage. Keep in mind this move has taken down some of the best in the business, so Junko is going to be extremely vulnerable at best, and likely incapped at worst.

What kind of damage does Codebreaker deal?

That's going to be pretty hard to, considering the skill + IR advantages Jericho holds. He can legit counter Junko's offense into his own.

Eh, I see her getting in a good hit or two. I think countering won't be as easy as Chris will will have some serious knockback whenever he blocks one of her blows.

What's stopping Jericho from just hitting a Codebreaker right then and there. Plus, an Instinctive Reaction isn't always a block. It can be a dodge, which is more often than not the case. I can see Jericho struggling with this a little bit, but he can counter it with the Codebreaker, which Junko won't see coming.

Thing is, a dodge in response to a feint still gets you hit, as you dodge the wrong attack and then the true attack is already coming at you.

Why won't Junko see Codebreaker coming? It's not exactly the most stealthy move nor a very surprising technique in principle. He has to outright grab her head first and then bring it to the knee. To answer the question why it isn't suited as a feint counter... well, I don't think the posutre of Junko gives a good opportunity there. While her fist is between them grabbing her head and then doing the knee kick would be impossible. He would hardly be able to grab unto the head on that distance and even if he somehow managed, she can use the arm between herself and Chris to interrupt the move by, for example, pushing/punching Chris away.

And afterwards she is in position for her kick, so at that point her leg is coming to interrupt.

Or, she can at any time backflip herself out of range.

Generally, Junko's fighting style isn't one where she allows opponents to get into that super close grappling range.

The weapons do more damage to wrestlers than the normal moves wrestlers pull off (other than the finishers), so most likely not.

So you give Junko something so durable that she can swing it full force without it breaking? She sure will be happy not to hold back for once.

But Jericho has no supernatural powers? I don't get what you mean here.

What I mean is that Junko's analysis and planning is good enough to even account for things beyond human capabilities. In fact, in ToAru analyzing how the opponent works is essential for any battle, as not understanding the power the opponent uses is a death sentence. So if she can do this analysis against unknown supernatural stuff, I'm confident she can comfortably figure out regular stuff.

The difference is 2x when you round it. The difference at best is somewhat recognizable, but nothing crazy to note about. Chris has his Liontamer, Walls of Jericho, Codebreaker, as well as any basic wrestling hold will bypass that regen.

In a RL boxing match, someone fighting a twice as strong opponent probably has no chance. Just saiyan.

Still wondering how the regen bypass is supposed to work.

Also, let's not forget about Jericho's Social Influencing.

But how good is his social influencing... in japanese?

 

[DemonicDude]

Oh DT just throwing me as hard as you possibly can on a wrestling table

 

[Pikaman]

I still don't understand how a wrestling hold will negate regen.

I believe the point is that you do not have to deal with regen if you win through restraint

 

[Pikaman]

What kind of damage does Codebreaker deal?

As a finisher it is generally capable of knocking out those who scale to Jericho if used in the middle of a fight, and can still heavily disorientate and deal heavy damage to similar or equal characters even if used at the very beginning of a fight. Several finishers have precedent of one-shotting wrestlers in fact. With very few exceptions, WWE wrestlers win fights when they use their finisher

 

[Pikaman]

So you give Junko something so durable that she can swing it full force without it breaking? She sure will be happy not to hold back for once.

They do usually break eventually, but most importantly Jericho has tons more experience using these exact weapons, and fighting against users of them. Combine with a skill and LS advantage, and Jericho is clearly a greater benefactor of the weapons.

In a RL boxing match, someone fighting a twice as strong opponent probably has no chance. Just saiyan.

Yeah, but this isn’t an IRL boxing match, this is a vs debate where we consider “no-chance” to begin at 7.5x


I do think arguments about strategy are valid but partially nulled by pure skill. Junko can try and keep a distance but ultimately the better fighter will achieve what they want quicker, for Junko that’s keeping away, with Jericho it’s getting in close. Jericho has advantages here that will hold a lot of weight, so I lean towards him for now, but DT is making some great arguments as well, so will not vote just yet.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I believe the point is that you do not have to deal with regen if you win through restraint

Ok, but... by SBA the associated wincon would be "incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day". Let's be serious: That won't happen.
In fact, I don't think there is a grip in which he can prevent Junko from dealing any amount of damage for a long time.

They do usually break eventually, but most importantly Jericho has tons more experience using these exact weapons, and fighting against users of them. Combine with a skill and LS advantage, and Jericho is clearly a greater benefactor of the weapons.

Does he do more with them than just swing them around? Also is there a bow amongst them, cause Junko is good with those.

Yeah, but this isn’t an IRL boxing match, this is a vs debate where we consider “no-chance” to begin at 7.5x

Yeah, it's not "No chance". Or specifically, it's not like he gets oneshot or Junko gets no damage. However, that doesn't mean that 2x in AP and Dura isn't still a really considerable advantage. I think you guys are underestimating that when you call it negligible.

As a finisher it is generally capable of knocking out those who scale to Jericho if used in the middle of a fight, and can still heavily disorientate and deal heavy damage to similar or equal characters even if used at the very beginning of a fight. Several finishers have precedent of one-shotting wrestlers in fact. With very few exceptions, WWE wrestlers win fights when they use their finisher

Yeah, but what kind of damage does it deal? Is it cracking bones or is it a concussion or what are we talking here?

 

[Pikaman]

Ok, but... by SBA the associated wincon would be "incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day". Let's be serious: That won't happen.
In fact, I don't think there is a grip in which he can prevent Junko from dealing any amount of damage for a long time.

Agreed, I think the only way a hold would work here is through submission

Does he do more with them than just swing them around? Also is there a bow amongst them, cause Junko is good with those.

A: While there’s technically no proof Jericho has any training in these weapons, he has had years of experience wielding them and has found new and creative ways to exploit them over said years. That counts for something.

B: Sadly not lmao, a Bow would be awesome in WWE, but feels way too dangerous, every botch could kill someone

Yeah, it's not "No chance". Or specifically, it's not like he gets oneshot or Junko gets no damage. However, that doesn't mean that 2x in AP and Dura isn't still a really considerable advantage. I think you guys are underestimating that when you call it negligible.

I disagree with negligible, it is noticeable, and a factor, but Jericho holds other advantages that I feel balance it out minimum.

Yeah, but what kind of damage does it deal? Is it cracking bones or is it a concussion or what are we talking here?

I’m not an expert on finishers like the codebreaker, you’d need to ask @RandomGuy2345, all I know is it knocks people out lmao

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Huh... I want to bring attention to a point that DT made. Would Jericho's Social Influencing even work on Hokaze, since they speak in entirely different languages, so they won't be able to understand a lick of what the other is saying? Granted, I am 30% sure that English is taught in japan, so this point might be moot, but idk. This might help in negating Jericho's SI advantage.

 

[DemonicDude]

Jericho should use Automatic Translation button then lol
now i wish Kenny and Jericho could double team on this monster....

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Jericho should use Automatic Translation button then lol
now i wish Kenny and Jericho could double team on this monster....

Kek. If they fit one of the requirements for duo-matches (canonically known for fighting alongside one another frequently and supplement each other's skills in combat) then there shouldn't be an issue for Kenny and Jericho to team up against Hokaze, I suppose. But judging from your wording, I don't think they fit the requirement (or Kenny doesn't have a profile in this site yet).

 

[DemonicDude]

Fanta I miss you soooo much.

 

[DemonicDude]

Kenny do have a profile tho,
Me and Random vs Fanty and DT

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Fanta I miss you soooo much.

I was always here, da ze!

Kenny do have a profile tho,
Me and Random vs Fanty and DT

Oh, sweet. Does Kenny team-up with Jericho often, tho?
Also, kek. One day~

 

[DemonicDude]

I was always here, da ze!

Oh, sweet. Does Kenny team-up with Jericho often, tho?
Also, kek. One day~

More like Attack each other backstage
But having rivals team up would be something special tho