Calculations should be put on the pages of everyone who scales to them

[KieranH10]

We should not skip characters in a scaling chain if that's what's being implied here, we just shouldn't add pointless characters to them.

Missing out characters such as:
"Character A is greatly superior to Character C"
Instead of linking to Character B, who links to Character C removes important information as it negates how much higher we know they scale.

It should be:
Character A is greatly above Character B (links to B)
Character B is greatly superior to Character C (links to C)

If we shorten this scaling chain to go directly from A to C, information is lost and feats will seem confusing to users, as characters who may never have even met will scale to one another directly.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So what do you suggest that we should concretely do to encourage this practice?

Fix as we find, major verses could likely have individual projects to go through the profiles and make sure such circular scaling chains don't exist. Kieran's suggestion is fine but I don't think it is as big of an issue as he makes it out to be.

 

[KieranH10]

Eh, I don't mean to make it bigger than it is lol.

Just basically what I said at first.

• Add calcs to verses.
• Make scaling chains make sense...
• Always eventually link to a calc. (if possible)
• Don't miss out characters.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Tbh I think just putting it all on one page is good. Scaling directly to a page isn't a problem in my book.

 

[KieranH10]

I think that it's important enough to be noted at least. If we said, for example:

• Hela: 6-C (should be on a similar level to Thanos)

Then this not only would not be accurate, but it would actually be somewhat misleading. Hela and Thanos never interacted, they weren't ever shown together and appeared in two different movies. Hela was dead before infinity war began.
So in this case, it's much more reasonable to layout the scaling chain.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I think that it's important enough to be noted at least. If we said, for example:

• Hela: 6-C (should be on a similar level to Thanos)

Then this not only would not be accurate, but it would actually be somewhat misleading. Hela and Thanos never interacted, they weren't ever shown together and appeared in two different movies. Hela was dead before infinity war began.
So in this case, it's much more reasonable to layout the scaling chain.

That's fair. I don't think it is absolutely necessary all the time. For example, D&D characters might scale to general calcs via individuals who cannot perform the feats in the calcs, but scale to other characters who can. Given the calcs are for general feats (spells and the like), I don't think it is necessary to list off x y and z characters who scale to the proper feat, if that makes sense. I'm all for concise pages.

 

[KieranH10]

yeah, a lot of verses have general feats that a lot of characters can perform, it seems fine in that regard to simply add more direct scaling in those cases. But when scaling chains are present, I believe it should be encouraged to use them as we're show them

 

[Antvasima]

Kieran makes sense to me.

 

[Antvasima]

So should we change any of our instruction pages based on Kieran's evaluations above?

 

[KLOL506]

So should we change any of our instruction pages based on Kieran's evaluations above?

Yeah, just add a note of how any accepted verse calculation should be put on the verse page and detail it like Kieran advised.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that the "editing rules" and "standard format for verse pages" page would be best for giving instructions in that regard.

Is somebody experienced willing to write up draft texts for this purpose?

 

[ElajRuengies]

Okay so massive necro but there is an optional ==Explanations== header below the '''Note:''' in the Standard Template for Character Profiles- couldn't any massive scaling chains be listed in that section? (Obviously having everything clearly put on the Verse Page would be better but I mean if it's absolutely necessary for the profile)

Scaling chains are an [Explanation] for the character and it wouldn't clog the statistics sections so couldn't that just be used instead?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay so massive necro but there is an optional ==Explanations== header below the '''Note:''' in the Standard Template for Character Profiles- couldn't any massive scaling chains be listed in that section? (Obviously having everything clearly put on the Verse Page would be better but I mean if it's absolutely necessary for the profile)

Scaling chains are an [Explanation] for the character and it wouldn't clog the statistics sections so couldn't that just be used instead?

@KingTempest @Damage3245 @DarkDragonMedeus @Theglassman12 @AKM sama @DemonGodMitchAubin @SamanPatou @Planck69 @KieranH10 @Mr._Bambu @Qawsedf234 @KLOL506

What do you think about this?

 

[Damage3245]

Sure, makes sense to include lengthier justifications in there instead of putting massive scaling chains after the ratings, or putting in calcs that don't really fit.

 

[SamanPatou]

It's a good idea, but we must be sure they are written in a clear and formal manner, without stuff like "X >>>> Y >> Z > W..." or "Stomped X, who bodied Y, who clowned Z...".

Also, I think there will be troubles when it comes to define the gap between a character or the other, without clear indications we must be careful with terms such as "much stronger than" or "easily defeated"

 

[Damage3245]

It's a good idea, but we must be sure they are written in a clear and formal manner, without stuff like "X >>>> Y >> Z > W..." or "Stomped X, who bodied Y, who clowned Z...".

Yes, I very much agree with this.

 

[Antvasima]

We should not skip characters in a scaling chain if that's what's being implied here, we just shouldn't add pointless characters to them.

Missing out characters such as:
"Character A is greatly superior to Character C"
Instead of linking to Character B, who links to Character C removes important information as it negates how much higher we know they scale.

It should be:
Character A is greatly above Character B (links to B)
Character B is greatly superior to Character C (links to C)

If we shorten this scaling chain to go directly from A to C, information is lost and feats will seem confusing to users, as characters who may never have even met will scale to one another directly.

Eh, I don't mean to make it bigger than it is lol.

Just basically what I said at first.

• Add calcs to verses.
• Make scaling chains make sense...
• Always eventually link to a calc. (if possible)
• Don't miss out characters.

I think that it's important enough to be noted at least. If we said, for example:

• Hela: 6-C (should be on a similar level to Thanos)

Then this not only would not be accurate, but it would actually be somewhat misleading. Hela and Thanos never interacted, they weren't ever shown together and appeared in two different movies. Hela was dead before infinity war began.
So in this case, it's much more reasonable to layout the scaling chain.

There are also the above suggestions.

 

[Antvasima]

It's a good idea, but we must be sure they are written in a clear and formal manner, without stuff like "X >>>> Y >> Z > W..." or "Stomped X, who bodied Y, who clowned Z...".

Also, I think there will be troubles when it comes to define the gap between a character or the other, without clear indications we must be careful with terms such as "much stronger than" or "easily defeated"

Agreed by me as well.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@KingTempest @Damage3245 @DarkDragonMedeus @Theglassman12 @AKM sama @DemonGodMitchAubin @SamanPatou @Planck69 @KieranH10 @Mr._Bambu @Qawsedf234 @KLOL506

What do you think about this?

I mean I don't have a problem if they stay optional, I don't intend to add them to my profiles, but sure, having them be an optional addition is fine

I mean I think my verse pages very clearly show who scales to what

 

[KLOL506]

Seems good on paper but eventually scaling chains can become quite massive to the point it might look like a cluttered mess on the Verse page. Individual blogs alleviate that a bit, but there's always the concern of the user suddenly disappearing into thin air or not updating the scaling chain properly depending on what new information or material comes out.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Seems good on paper but eventually scaling chains can become quite massive to the point it might look like a cluttered mess on the Verse page. Individual blogs alleviate that a bit, but there's always the concern of the user suddenly disappearing into thin air or not updating the scaling chain properly depending on what new information or material comes out.

^This, so much this

 

[StekFence]

U could always replace the blog tho with a new updated one from someone else right?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree that the option seems good for massive scaling chains.

 

[KLOL506]

U could always replace the blog tho with a new updated one from someone else right?

I... guess that's a valid point?

 

[Antvasima]

Seems good on paper but eventually scaling chains can become quite massive to the point it might look like a cluttered mess on the Verse page. Individual blogs alleviate that a bit, but there's always the concern of the user suddenly disappearing into thin air or not updating the scaling chain properly depending on what new information or material comes out.

Well, maybe we could at least write a rule about that our members should make a sincere effort for our visitors to understand where the statistics originally came from?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Well, maybe we could at least write a rule about that our members should make a sincere effort for our visitors to understand where the statistics originally came from?

Fairy Tail and One Piece do this on the verse page, so that would be an acceptable alternative

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Why don't we do as on Mash's page?

We put the values and calculation in bold to make it easier, and if a justification needs more elaboration we use notes

Putting the values and scale only on the verse page seems somewhat lazy and complicated for new members

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Why don't we do as on Mash's page?

We put the values and calculation in bold to make it easier, and if a justification needs more elaboration we use notes

Putting the values and scale only on the verse page seems somewhat lazy and complicated for new members

Well that's ugly, so I don't like that

Also if people can't figure out the values themselves based on what's already clearly laid out, that's their problem

 

[Antvasima]

Well, maybe we could at least write a rule about that our members should make a sincere effort for our visitors to understand where the statistics originally came from?

Fairy Tail and One Piece do this on the verse page, so that would be an acceptable alternative

What do the rest of our staff members here think?

 

[Therefir]

I already do this all the time.

Capable of harming a weakened All Might, who was stated to be as sturdy as All For One Shigaraki, who in turn is as durable as the Near High-End that managed to survive the tremendous power of the Intercontinental Missiles Tiamat

This is one of my longest justifications, but it still does its job in displaying exactly what value this Nomu is scaling to from.

And there's nothing more annoying that going through several profiles with the only justification for their values being "stronger than x character, so I agree with OP that we should encourage putting calcs on the profiles themselves whenever it is possible.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Well my profiles are self explanatory and I don't think I have to change them

That's all I have to say, whatever else you guys want to do with your profiles is up to you

 

[KLOL506]

My profiles also go through the extra effort of laying down the scaling chain whenever possible so that it's precise AF.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but not all of our members do that, which turns very confusing for our visitors.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yes, but not all of our members do that, which turns very confusing for our visitors.

I mean if some verses are poorly handled, that's their fault

I mean no offense to the OP, but one reddit user complaining about us doesn't warrant us to changeour entire system, a lot of verses already do what the OP's suggesting

 

[Antvasima]

I just mean that a rule instruction text would likely greatly help to encourage this practice if we word it properly.

Also, I have seen this complaint elsewhere as well.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I just mean that a rule instruction text would likely greatly help to encourage this practice if we word it properly.

It really wouldn't, it's not an issue of people not knowing that, it's just that there are some verses that take forever to apply changes and don't have someone working hard to make sure they're clear and concise

 

[Antvasima]

Well, again, most of our members likely don't know that, so I don't see the harm in simply instructing them and encouraging this practice.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Well that's ugly

I felt offended

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody write a tally of which staff members that think what here please?