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Bleach: The worlds destruction

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The collapse

After the death of the Rei-o, all connected to the Soul Society would collapse, the worlds of the living, the Hueco world and even the Dangai.

Dangai
The Dangai is a space-time isolated from the others, it exists betwee the Soul Society and the world of the living, and works as a passage between them.

The Dangai is not a path in the vacuum that connects two planets, it is a space-time that connects two other spaces-times.Therefore, according to the previous statement, it can be said that the death of the Rei-o would entail not only the destruction of the planets, but all of the space-time, and consequently, of all the matter that exists in it.

The goal of Yhwach
Yhwach intended to create a world where life and death are just a one: [1]
"Yhwach meant to create a world where life and death are just one.
The path has been sealed Ichigo. The path to a world without fear.
The Living world. The Soul Society. Hueco Mundo. They all should have become one. Life and death were meant to be combined as one.
But that can no longer be. Thanks to you. Ichigo.
How disappointing. Because of you life and death will retain their shapes. All has life will continue to live in constant fear of death now."


The primordial world:
"During that age, all of creation was in a state of ambiguity. There was neither life nor death; progression and regression flickered to and fro. Swaying and swaying slowly; this waning and waxing world waited for a hundred million years to cool down. Eventually, Hollows became a part of the circulation of souls."

The separation of life and death:
"Using his powers of the Almighty as the 'keystone', the five of them created the foundation of a new world. Soul Society, the Material World and Hueco Mundo. Life and death were separated. The Soul Cycle ushered in a new era."

Basically, Yhwach's goal was to unite life and death again, bring the world to its former existence. In other words, literally undo what Prime Soul King did.

Outilier
There's no way this is an isolated feat. The creation of the worlds made by Soul King is currently classified as 4-A. Even if Soul King does not scale directly to anyone, a fraction of his power is able to reach a similar level. Which proves only that the 4-A is really extremely casual to the primordial form.

In addition, this same feat already showing several times in the work. Soul King weakened, Mimihagi and Yhwach proved themselves capable of stabilizing the worlds.

It was affirmed by Ichibei that Ichigo himself had the necessary to become Rei-o.
"But when the descendant, Ichigo appeared, possessing all the qualities that made him fit to replace the Rei-o, I really thought that history was repeating itself. Perhaps the world needs someone like him."

The proposed level
The weakened version of Soul King should be 4-A per stabilize two spaces-times that contains countless stars.

Mimihagi and Yhwach have literally the same feat, and they should also be classified as 4-A.

Ichigo and Aizen scale for the reasons already listed in their profiles.
 
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I still think everyone besides prime soul king stays at 5-B. It's more consistent for everyone to remain the same where as Prime Soul King has no feats holding this new rating back.
 
I don't agree really, the merging of the three worlds had nothing to do with the entire dimensions. Solely the planets and what connects to them or is on them.
 
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IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
I don't agree really, the merging of the three worlds had nothing to do with the entire dimensions. Solely the planets and what connects to them or is on them.
That's the point, there's nothing that connects the planets. The Dangai connects the two space-times.

"Not just the Soul Society... but all that is connected to it... Dangai... Hueco Mundo... The World of the living... it will all collapse!"
This is clearly related to the dimensions.

'Planets' do not fit in any way in the context of the feat.
According to Yhwach, what destabilizes the Soul Society is the enormous flow of Konpaku .
The Konpakus pass through the dimensions themselves, some Konpakus join in Kyougokus, structures that exist around Dangai .
This again proves that it is the dimensions that need to be stabilised. Not the planets.
 
You're already incorrect since its proven that it's not the flow of souls that destabilizes Soul Society, we've already had that CRT.

The Soul King's power alone stabilizes the realms and keeps the planets apart.
 
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what about the infinite sized muken that is in SS that would have also be affected by the merging ? isn't that an argument ?

i'm neutral on the upgrade so far btw.
 
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IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
You're already incorrect since its proven that it's not the flow of souls that destabilizes Soul Society, we've already had that CRT.
The Soul King's power alone stabilizes the realms and keeps the planets apart.
I remember seeing something about it on this wiki. So you really think the planets collapse by gravitational attraction?
THE GRAVITY, a curvature in itself space-time affecting a body that is not in this space-time.

We have a clear statement, given by the author himself. And we have a 'theory', which is physically impossible.
It's not too hard to figure out which one is valid.
 
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The flow of souls stabilizing SS is a mistranslation. That was already debunked in the CRT and that's why God Tiers were upgraded back to Planet level, and thanks to some back up info from the Light Novel that supported their 5-B tier.
 
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AppleLord said:
The flow of souls stabilizing SS is a mistranslation. That was already debunked in the CRT and that's why God Tiers were upgraded back to Planet level, and thanks to some back up info from the Light Novel that supported their 5-B tier.
I'm aware of that.

In the wrong Translation Yhwach explains that the Soul King was created to stabilize the amount of souls that pass through Soul Society from The World of the Living.

The official translation Yhwach explains that Soul King was created to stabilize the Soul Society. Where large quantities of souls pass.

The only difference is that Soul King stabilizes the world and not the flow of souls. But it is still the flow of souls that causes the collapse of the worlds.
 
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do we really have to go back on this topic again ? Can't Fear Your Own World specifically explained what the soul king does and why the worlds would collapse if they are not hold at all time and souls flow have nothing to do with it.

keep up with the last bleach news or just read the thread that got bleach to 5-B again as most of the sources and proofs are listed there
 
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  • "But it is still the flow of souls that causes the collapse of the worlds."
Incorrect. It's the Quincy erasing souls from the circle of reincarnation over time that causes the collapse of the world. The Soul King stabilizes the worlds, but erasing souls from existence even if VSBW doesn't want to give Quincy Existence Erasure is what's causing the unbalance of Life and Death since Bleach is set on a reincarnation cycle afterlife. Quincy destroying souls shouldn't be soul destruction because every other character who is a soul and destroys a soul would have soul destruction (except for zanpakutous) but the souls still go to soul Society after been destroyed by a Hollow, Fullbring, Kido, etc. Quincy erase said souls from the cycle of reincarnation but they don't erase said souls from people 's memories. Maybe that's why existence erasure was negated to Quincies.
 
The Prime SK split the original universe. At the lowest interpretation of this, we assume that the process went something like this:

- World of the Living is the 'original' space and the PSK left 'life'

- PSK separated 'death' and created Soul Society and Hueco Mundo

- PSK extracted what is 'Hell' from the original space and shoved it into its own space

Because we do not assume that PSK created the World of the Living's universe, he gets 4-A for creating SS because that is the rating we can visibly give it. This is acceptably reasonable.

To reiterate the OP and quote myself from another thread:

'However, with the context given to use through Ichibe's info dump the Prime Soul King separated 'life' and 'death' into 'the world of the living' - which is Earth - and 'the world of the dead' - which is Soul Society (and Hueco Mundo).

In this case Yhwach reaching his goal would require him to perform the Prime Soul King's definitive feat, just in reverse.'
 
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AppleLord said:
* "But it is still the flow of souls that causes the collapse of the worlds."
Incorrect. It's the Quincy erasing souls from the circle of reincarnation over time that causes the collapse of the world. The Soul King stabilizes the worlds, but erasing souls from existence even if VSBW doesn't want to give Quincy Existence Erasure is what's causing the unbalance of Life and Death since Bleach is set on a reincarnation cycle afterlife. Quincy destroying souls shouldn't be soul destruction because every other character who is a soul and destroys a soul would have soul destruction (except for zanpakutous) but the souls still go to soul Society after been destroyed by a Hollow, Fullbring, Kido, etc. Quincy erase said souls from the cycle of reincarnation but they don't erase said souls from people 's memories. Maybe that's why existence erasure was negated to Quincies.
Exactly, the eradication of Hollows made by the Quincys causes instability.

But the concept behind it is not the existence erasure. By destroying Hollows, the Quincys cause instability because this increases the number of souls in the world of the living and decreases in the Soul Society . What causes collapse in is the difference in the number of souls in the worlds.

This in no way applies only to the Quincys. That in no way applies only to the Quincys. For example, half the human population simply dies naturally, most of the dead go to the Soul Society, it would cause a collapse. Because? In this scenario, the amount of souls in the Soul Society would be 3 times greater than that of the worlds of the living.
Simply put, Soul King exists to stabilize the world from the flow of souls that come and go constantly. The fact that the world instantly collapses with his death confirms it.
 
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It doesn't work like that GDEM. According to estimates by demographic researchers at the Population Reference Bureau (PRB), as of 2015, there have been 108.2 billion who have ever been born. Taking away the roughly 7.4 billion who are alive today, we get 100.8 billion who have died before us.

There are almost 14x more people dead than alive!

Yamamoto's Bankai can summon "Ten Trillion" skeletons of people who he have killed in his past live. Even if we reduce the among of souls destroyed by the Quincy over a 1,000 years period, the amount of souls in SS still get balance by Mayuri who killed all those souls in the Rukongai and send them to be reborn again in the world of the living without permission. That's assuming we don't count yamamoto's "Ten Trillion" dead as a hyperbole.
 
Souls in SS get reincarnated in the Living world when die though, and with how violent some of the districts in the Rukongai are I can believe that enough die to keep the balance, I doubt that there are that many more souls in SS that in the Living world.

And if Yama's Bankai is accurate then that's ten trillion souls reincarnated back into the living world.(And even if it is an exaggeration, he's still killed a shit ton of souls remember how the initial Gotei 13 were)
 
The proposed level The weakened version of Soul King should be 4-A per stabilize two spaces-times that contains countless stars.

Dude?you changed your opinion to "they only stabilize the flow of souls" so fast?

Iam not sayin that i disagree or something but is this an upgrade or downgrade?
 
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Soul King exists to stabilize the world from the flow of souls that come and go constantly. The fact that the world instantly collapses with his death confirms it.

Preschool interpretation. Not surprising, after all, this profile was created with the sole purpose of commenting on this.
 
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Is "fiction" you can apply "real-life" concepts to an argument, otherwise is not even an argument. Works of Fiction are always base on "real-life" until told otherwise by the author. Thanks for providing the scans to what I was saying about Mayuri.
 
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AppleLord said:
Is "fiction" you can applied "real-life" to it argument is not even an argument. Works of Fiction are always base on "real-life" until told otherwise by the author. Thanks for providing the scans to what I was saying about Mayuri.
Precisely. But If you look at my comment a little better, you'll see the scan that states what I said.
 
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GDEM said:
AppleLord said:
Is "fiction" you can applied "real-life" to it argument is not even an argument. Works of Fiction are always base on "real-life" until told otherwise by the author. Thanks for providing the scans to what I was saying about Mayuri.
Precisely. But If you look at my comment a little better, you'll see the scan that states what I said.
You talked about the "flow" of souls which is in no way the same as the "quantity" of souls.
 
Tentatively, this could also suggest that none of the three realms remain on the original plane, and that the Prime SK split the original universe into three, instead of 'just' creating new worlds for the dead to inhabit.

Well, idk if that would be higher or lower tho.
 
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other statements said that SK created everything in the SS dimension so he clearly didn't "just" split the universe in 3
 
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OrangeberrySama said:
Why is creating Soul Society considered 4-A when it's the same size as the Real World (universe)?
https://mangabeast.com/manga/Bleach/0625-012.png

https://mangabeast.com/manga/Bleach/0625-013.png

Furthermore, there is also the fact that Muken was created which is literally infinite in size.

Honestly, 4-A doesn't seem like the correct rating here.
4-A is a low ball and was given because we see multiple stars in the SS dimension.

PSK couldn't really be given universe level as there was no statement that he created a universe sized dimension

but now new info came out like the infinite muken wich we may be able to change his rating , along yhwach .
 
@Naeblis495

But there is...Rei-ō is stated to have at least created Soul Society and Hueco Mundo. Soul Society is a universe sized dimension and either way, the fact that he created Muken (which is infinite in size) means that tier 4-A is more than just a lowball, it's blatantly incorrect.

And Muken being infinite in size is not "new information".
 
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well , if you can find a statement clearly saying that SS and HM are universe sized that would be good .

as for muken it was just missed and not even considered , so that's why i said new
 

TataHakai

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SS being Universe sized makes no sense really

SS exists within the same universe as the real world, the same universe which already existed before the SK

Human world = Earth

SS = Human world

The cycle of reincarnation only exists between these two, and that's what Yhwach wanted to end, it makes no sense for him to want to destroy the entire realms when he only needed to destroy earth and the soul society planet
 

TataHakai

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Yeah it is a different dimension in the same universe

But nothing suggests Yhwach was going to destroy the entire dimension, him undoing what the SK did refers to the splitting of the reincarnation cycle between earth and SS planet
 
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no , him undoing what the PSK did is him undoing what the PSK did , not part of it.

everything mean everything .
 

TataHakai

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That could literally refer to anything

Nowhere does it say "Undo EVERYTHING the PSK did" that's just headcanon and doesn't even make sense considering context
 
Return everything to the original plane of existence sounds pretty straight forward. Now how would one do that without altering everything set in the past millions of years?
 
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he wanted to return everything to the original state , before the PSK put his grain of salt in the matter .

he can't do that by just destroying the borders and destroying earth hueco mundo and SS the planet
 

TataHakai

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It isn't, it's just what Ginjo heard

It doesn't even make sense with Yhwach's plan in mind

"The original state of existence" is obviously referring to the reincarnation cycle since that was Yhwach's entire plan, why would he care if the rest of the SS gets destroyed or not if only the SS planet is relevant to his plan? You can't use a single statement from what a character heard (thus not even a reliable statement since he's not even saying it as a fact, just what he heard) over the context of the feat and Yhwach's ideas as a whole
 
"It's just what Ginjo heard"

This makes it not valid because? Only a small group of people know anything about the war and Yhwach in general and Ginjo is one of them.

"Original state of existence"

It doesn't say this, it says "original plane of existence". This isn't about a reincarnation cycle which isn't even a tangible thing you can manipulate as far as I know.

"Why would he care"

What do you mean why? He can do whatever he wants. It's in his power, idk why you keep talking about planets.

"Not a reliable statement"

Based off of what again? He got his information from XCUTION which was started by Aura who has all the knowledge about it from Tokinada and more. Heck they're even letting the world know about the existence of the spiritual world and whatnot so clearly they know something. Which makes this pretty baseless.
 

TataHakai

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It makes it not valid because that's all you have, a statement from Ginjo that he heard from someone else who we don't even know, you have to consider the validity and reliability of statements and in this case when it doesn't even make sense in terms of the context it's VERY weak

"What do you mean why? He can do whatever he wants. It's in his power, idk why you keep talking about planets."

Because the planets are relevant to his plan, the entirety of the dimension isn't, people get reincarnated on the SS planet, "he can do whatever he wants" isn't even a valid argument to make, this is the equivalent of me saying toneri was going to bust the earth because "it's in his power and he can do whatever he wants" when it makes no sense in the context of his plan

"Based off of what again? He got his information from XCUTION which was started by Aura who has all the knowledge about it from Tokinada and more. So this is pretty baseless."

I already explained why it's not reliable or valid

" This isn't about a reincarnation cycle which isn't even a tangible thing you can manipulate as far as I know."

Except it is, the entirety of the last arc was about the reincarnation cycle, or did you literally miss the dozens of chapters explaining Yhwach's goal was explicitly about the reincarnation cycle?
 
You haven't provided anything against the statement outside of conjecture. If you don't mind I'd like you to post something from the novel or manga that suggest Ginjo pulled the information out of his ass.

Scans of the cycle of souls please, it's not a tangible thing. It's just something that happens due to how the world is setup. And again that statement has nothing to do wth the cycle of reincarnation. It's about the merging of the worlds and the collapse of the dangai in order to bring the old world back as he explained himself in the manga.
 
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i agree with sigurd , there is nothing out of place with ginjo statement.

even the dangai would have affected and yet it's not a part of the reincarnation cycle.
 
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If the entire page is posted Tokinada confirms what Ginjo just said and Tokinada's plan is to reveal to humans that "Jesus" doesn't exist and what awaits them after they die is a shitty afterlife. What Ginjo heard was told to him by Urahara in Ganju's place in another chapter and Urahara knows this from the manga when he fought Askin.
 
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2 things.

First, isnt the Muken just a void? Why would creating the muken be given a tier when it wouldnt warrant anything? Creating an infinitely stretching void with no matter cant be given a tier.

Second, what evidence is there that says the SK would have even created the Muken? It's a space that is completely isolated and separated from the soul society. Creating the SS's dimension wouldnt automatically mean the PSK created Muken.
 
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TataHakai said:
Human world = Earth | SS = Human world
Wrong. Everything outside of the Seireitei is "Soul Society ". This, depending on the context, can refer to both the planet and the space-time itself.
As you can see , the dimension is also called "Soul Society ".


Tata, in any way this is an unfounded statement. In fact, it matches all the points raised here.

  • In Yhwach's own words, he would 'gather' life and death again.
  • Ginjo's statement states that he would bring all his original existence (Where life and death coexisted).
  • The death of the Rei-o results in the destruction not only of the planets, but of the dimensions. Which proves that it's the dimensions that need to be ' sustained '.
 

TataHakai

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"you haven't provided anything against the statement outside of conjecture. If you don't mind I'd like you to post something from the novel or manga that suggest Ginjo pulled the information out of his ass."

He literally says "he has heard", there's no objective statement here it's not even from Yhwach himself on his plans, so it's pretty irrelevant to what Yhwach wanted to do

Especially when we DID hear what Yhwach wanted to do and it was nothing like "what ginjo heard", the statement is ridicilously unreliable

"Scans of the cycle of souls please, it's not a tangible thing. It's just something that happens due to how the world is setup.

Dude no one is saying it's tangible, but the worlds set up was what yhwach was going to disrupt because it would affect the cycle of souls, again there's NO need for him to affect the entire realms, there's no statement from yhwach specifically that the entire realms would be destroyed and more importantly it doesn't make any sense within the context of his plan

When you're trying to upgrade a character by millions to trillions of times above his current rating you need more proof than "he heard" from a character that isn't even himself.
 

TataHakai

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GDEM said:
  • The death of the Rei-o results in the destruction not only of the planets, but of the dimensions. Which proves that it's the dimensions that need to be ' sustained '.
Please show a single scan or statement from the entire manga that proves this

Because as soon as the SK died there were earthquakes on earth, not throughout the universe or the entire dimension of the human world, on earth

We saw SS planet being destroyed, not the entire dimension, only the planet

The human world in yhwach's planets refers to simply earth but yet for some reason soul society isn't about the parallel planet? Yeah miss me with that headcanon
 
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Muken (a void that stretches for infinity) also had an earthquake and Dangai was mentioned to collapse too with everything that's connected to Soul Society the afterlife. Dangai has is own space-time and it connects the dimensions.

BC237794-A6F6-478C-B32E-184743B12861
780BEF19-D48B-474E-AD7A-1C1E083B6F40
82B7AF50-6B5F-4EA7-9506-65FBF0427546
 

TataHakai

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Nowhere in those entire 2 pages did Yhwach mention the realms as a whole, he talks about the reincarnation cycle which is between the Earth and Soul society Planet.
 
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  • Yhwach says life & death are meant to become one and fused together. < His goal.
  • Life & Death didn't existed until Reiō created those along with the rest of every other dimension which are made of different matter; Kishi & Reishi.
  • Ginjo heard that Yhwach wanted everything to become like their original plane of existence a.k.a. life & death were meant to become one again.
Now can someone else explain to me what TataHaki is trying to say?
 
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TataHakai said:
He literally says "he has heard", there's no objective statement here it's not even from Yhwach himself on his plans, so it's pretty irrelevant to what Yhwach wanted to do.
Yes, he heard. But that does not make the information invalid, as long as it does not contradict and is not disregarded by the work itself.
Why would the author give the wrong information? There are cases where, for example, the author purposely of the wrong information so that it is subsequently denied by the work.
This is not the case here, in fact, the true purpose of this statement was to expose that the purpose of Tokinada was different from that of Yhwach. In other words, there's literally no reason for this to be a wrong statement.

Just 'listening' doesn't mean you're wrong. For example, I 'heard' from someone you would 'cry' with this update.

TataHakai said:
Please show a single scan or statement from the entire manga that prove this.
"Not just the Soul Society... but all that is connected to it... Dangai... Hueco Mundo... The World of the living... it will all collapse!"

Why is that referring to the dimensions? One answer is Dangai.
The Dangai is a space-time that exists between the world of the living and the Soul Society. It connects the two worlds functioning as a passage between them.
Question: What is connected to Dangai
A) Planet
B) Space-time
10 billion points for those who hit!
 
Antvasima said:
@IMade

What are the TL;DR conclusions here?
If people really want to make an argument about the new and better translations, then honestly they should wait till the translations reach the Volume 3 section where Ichibei explains the past.

I can see why people are trying to make this upgrade and the basis for it even if I personally don't agree with it now, but they should at least wait for the better translations.
 
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Xerkser500 said:
2 things.
First, isnt the Muken just a void? Why would creating the muken be given a tier when it wouldnt warrant anything? Creating an infinitely stretching void with no matter cant be given a tier.

Second, what evidence is there that says the SK would have even created the Muken? It's a space that is completely isolated and separated from the soul society. Creating the SS's dimension wouldnt automatically mean the PSK created Muken.
^

People should also stop using the Dangai as an argument here when we dont even know how big it is. Being called a space-time is worthless without a quantifiable size, which is never given.
 
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Xerkser500 said:
People should also stop using the Dangai as an argument here when we dont even know how big it is. Being called a space-time is worthless without a quantifiable size, which is never given.
Attacking a straw man? Hahaha
 
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IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
If people really want to make an argument about the new and better translations, then honestly they should wait till the translations reach the Volume 3 section where Ichibei explains the past.
Even if the translations of MissStormCaller are better. If compared to the Scheneizel, the meaning does not change dramatically.

For example, a snippet we were just talking about.
This is the translation of the MissStormCaller:
"At first, Ginjō was of the opinion that the religious cult were associates of the Quincies, and that the 'new king' was perhaps referring to Yhwach.
However, he has heard that Yhwach's purpose was not to rule over the three worlds, but to eliminate the boundaries of the three worlds itself and return everything to the original plane of existence."


This is the translation of the Scheneizel:
"At first, I thought that this cult had connections to the Quincies and that the 'new king' spoken about in the prophecy referred to Yhwach.
But Yhwach's objective was not to rule over the three worlds, but to merge them into one, to turn everything back to the way they originally were."


In the end, both of them have the same meaning. Yhwach's goal was to bring the world to its former existence.


The same goes for the information brought from volume 3, some translation errors do not alter the final meaning. In fact, these information coincide with those given by Yhwach, in the official translation.

  • "Using his powers of the Almighty as the 'keystone', the five of them created the foundation of a new world. Soul Society, the Material World and Hueco Mundo. Life and death were separated. The Soul Cycle ushered in a new era."
  • "The Living world. The Soul Society. Hueco Mundo. They all should have become one. Life and death were meant to be combined as one."


The only stretch that may sound contradictory is this, but I can explain.

  • "During that age, all of creation was in a state of ambiguity. There was neither life nor death; progression and regression flickered to and fro. Swaying and swaying slowly; this waning and waxing world waited for a hundred million years to cool down. Eventually, Hollows became a part of the circulation of souls."
The 'life' and the 'death' themselves, existed. What did not exist is the current concept of life and death.
Currently, if you are alive, you are on the world of the Living. If you're dead, either you're in the Soul Society or the Hueco world.
It is exactly this concept what was not in the primordial world, where dead's and living's coexisted.

Minimal translation inconsistencies do not shake what has been proposed here.
 

Antvasima

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@IMade

Okay. I will unsubscribe to this thread then. You can send me a message later if you need my help.
 
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Xerkser500 said:
Xerkser500 said:
2 things.
First, isnt the Muken just a void? Why would creating the muken be given a tier when it wouldnt warrant anything? Creating an infinitely stretching void with no matter cant be given a tier.

Second, what evidence is there that says the SK would have even created the Muken? It's a space that is completely isolated and separated from the soul society. Creating the SS's dimension wouldnt automatically mean the PSK created Muken.
^
People should also stop using the Dangai as an argument here when we dont even know how big it is. Being called a space-time is worthless without a quantifiable size, which is never given.
Soul King created "Reishi" everything in Soul Society is made out of "Reishi" so Muken which is "in" and "connected" to the Dangai will also colapse means that Soul King created the Muken or he converted a infinity stretching void into matter and move it to Soul Society.

There are two conclusions.

1. Soul King created the Muken.

2. Soul King changed an infinite stretching voice from Kishi into Reishi and moved it to Soul Society.

All of this is base on Soul King creating Reishi and Muken been connected to Soul Society, Dangai, Hueco Mundo and the Living World which began to collapse altogether.
 
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Thing is, the Muken is not apart of the Soul Society. It's specifically stated to be a realm that is completely seperated from the outside world, the soul society. It's pretty much the ROSAT of Bleach so to speak. Destroying the soul society doesnt automatically result in the Muken's destruction either.

Not only that, the Muken doesnt look like it's made of Reishi. It's a realm of nothingness.
 
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  • Muken only entrance is in Soul Society, if destroyed everyone will stay trap in there forever. -Kyoraku's words.
  • Muken was crumbling when all the other dimensions that are connected began to crumble. -Aizen told Kyoraku that Muken was trembling which meant Soul Society was about to get destroyed.
I literally placed the scans above where Muken is crumbling as all connected dimensions.
 
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AppleLord said:
Muken (a void that stretches for infinity) also had an earthquake and Dangai was mentioned to collapse too with everything that's connected to Soul Society the afterlife. Dangai has is own space-time and it connects the dimensions.
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Muken is connected to Soul King's creation because it was mentioned to be crumbling as well.
 

TataHakai

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I don't think It was stated all of the muken was crumbling or shaking, just what Shunsui could feel since he's the one narrating it

It was also not stated that Muken would be destroyed
 
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AppleLord said:
* Muken only entrance is in Soul Society, if destroyed everyone will stay trap in there forever. -Kyoraku's words.
  • Muken was crumbling when all the other dimensions that are connected began to crumble. -Aizen told Kyoraku that Muken was trembling which meant Soul Society was about to get destroyed.
I literally placed the scans above where Muken is crumbling as all connected dimensions.
It's obviously connected to the Soul Society via an entrance. That doesnt mean the Muken would be destroyed along with the Soul Society. We only see it shaking when Shunsui goes to see Aizen. Shunsui even says that "it's nearing the end for the Soul Society" but never says the Muken would end with it.

Besides, at the end of the day, the Muken is stilll a void of nothingness that expands infinitely with an unquantifiable size. Effecting it doesnt give you a tier.
 
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  • Muken is completely close from the outside world.
  • The crumbling of Soul Society can be felt in the Muken.
Guys stop contradicting yourself. It doesn't make sense for Muken not to be shaking. It does not make sense for something not made of "reishi" to exist in Soul Society. 101 basics.

Either Reiō created the Muken or converted the already existent Muken into Reishi and moved it to the Soul Society's dimensions where Kishi (matter) can't enter.

Make up your minds.
 
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It's not inconsistent. It's very clear that when you feel something "shaking" means that everything around you is shaking. Muken was shaking because is connected to Soul Society. Either way Reiō created "Reishi" and everything in Soul Society is made up of "Reishi" because Kishi (matter) can't exist in the Spiritual World. Reiō either created or converted Muken into Reishi for Muken to be located in "Soul Society" and I am not talking about Soul Society as a planet, but as a whole dimension with the stars, space and everything.
 
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If people wanna argue that Muken is a void of nothingness, I guess we should make a CRT for void resistance or whatever Aizen, Shunsui and co get for surviving there.
 
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AnonymousBlank said:
If people wanna argue that Muken is a void of nothingness, I guess we should make a CRT for void resistance or whatever Aizen, Shunsui and co get for surviving there.
You know we have a rule against this kind of thing right? Just like not every one and their mother gets infinite speed for being in a void.
 
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You know sarcasm is a thing right? If you wanna follow said rule, why are you arguing that Muken is an infinite void of nothingness. Pretty blatant cherry picking right there.
 
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Everyone in the Tournament of Power in Dragon Ball Super have infinite speed since Jiren's feat of shaking the void was accepted. ovo
 
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AnonymousBlank said:
You know sarcasm is a thing right? If you wanna follow said rule, why are you arguing that Muken is an infinite void of nothingness. Pretty blatant cherry picking right there.
Because it's actually called that? Unohana literally says this to Kenpachi.
Muken
 
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The only entrance to Muken is in the deeps of Seireitei located in Soul Society. If the entrance is close or destroyed everyone will stay in Muken forever as there's no other exist or entrance as Kyoraku told Aizen. That's why he had the key to Muken connected to his heart, so Aizen wouldn't kill him.

This would bring an argument that Muken is a dimension of it's own closed to the outside world in this case Soul Society which is particularly correct, however, this dimension called Muken still exist in a world of Reishi created by the Soul King.

2 conclusions are given.

  • Soul King did not created the Muken because is not connected to the Soul Society and is in another dimension. (However, there are contradictions to this argument as the "shaking" could be "felt" inside Muken which is closed to the outside world. That means the Muken was shaking around them. You can't feel "shaking" unless the surroundings are "shaking" around you. Thus, Muken is connected to the Soul King's creation.)
  • The second argument is that since Muken is located in Soul Society which is a dimension created of Reishi by the Soul King, the Soul King changed/converted Muken into Reishi and moved Muken to Soul Society.
 
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I know what they called it. My point is for you to drop this double standard cherry picking. Dont argue its an infinite void of nothingness just because you are against it being an argument for 3-A then immediately turn around and say its not an infinite void of nothingness because you dont want it to be an argument for infinite speed. I dont understand how you can just sit there and be so disingenuous with no issue.
 
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Well when the shaking happened in Muken, Shunsui was entering it to speak with Aizen. That means the entrance between the Soul Society and the Muken was opened.

If an entrance into a seperate universe/dimension/realm, etc. is opened then the actvitiy of one can influence/effect the other.
 
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AnonymousBlank said:
I know what they called it. My point is for you to drop this double standard cherry picking. Dont argue its an infinite void of nothingness just because you are against it being an argument for 3-A then immediately turn around and say its not an infinite void of nothingness because you dont want it to be an argument for infinite speed.
No one here said any of this. A void doesnt suddenly not become infinite when arguing against people having infinite speed for moving in it.

The void at the end of the day is infinite, the characters are just not scaled to it.
 
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"you can feel it even down here" Muken was indeed shaken. It's connected to SS, so it's under SK's power.
 

The_real_cal_howard

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I for one welcome Bleach to hit Low 2-C, whether it's legit or not. I'd love to put Ichigo against Dream Devourer, Caine, Vivec, and Overlord GAIA.
 
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This simply proves it's connected and Yhwach was going to destroy it. Also this means SK made Muken.
 
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M11UTD said:
"you can feel it even down here" Muken was indeed shaken. It's connected to SS, so it's under SK's power.
Or, again, Shunsui said that because the entrance between the Muken and the Soul Society was opened to feel the former shaking from where he was.
 
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Xerkser500 said:
M11UTD said:
"you can feel it even down here" Muken was indeed shaken. It's connected to SS, so it's under SK's power.
Or, again, Shunsui said that because the entrance between the Muken and the Soul Society was opened to feel the former shaking from where he was.
Second scan Apple posted shows it reached Muken, check the first panel again.
 
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The real cal howard said:
I for one welcome Bleach to hit Low 2-C, whether it's legit or not. I'd love to put Ichigo against Dream Devourer, Caine, Vivec, and Overlord GAIA.
Multiversal Soul Crush gg
 
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Muken is not 'Nothingness'.

  • 'Nothingness' refers not only to the absence of matter, but rather the absence of space and time in itself.
  • In the official digitizatio 'Nothingness' is not mentioned.
  • Muken is referred to as a 'space'.


So what's Muken?
The Muken is a different space of the Soul Society, which extends to infinity (or almost).

Shaking an infinite space is obviously 3-A, that is, we would have made it practical here.
However, I am uncertain about it, in the official digitizatio it is said that the Muken is ' almost infinitely large ', and not ' infinity ' directly.
 
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as far as i can see , this wiki is the more accurate out there .

still better than wiki's that say that all hax can be negated wia higher AP/dura
 

Matthew_Schroeder

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This wiki is one of the least accurate and most biased. This thread alone is proof of that.

Wanna upgrade something? Gish-galloping, Text Walls, Being Offended Easily, and FRAs.

Done. Nothing else matters.
 
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Xerkser500 said:
M11UTD said:
"you can feel it even down here" Muken was indeed shaken. It's connected to SS, so it's under SK's power.
Or, again, Shunsui said that because the entrance between the Muken and the Soul Society was opened to feel the former shaking from where he was.
The door to Muken was close.

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