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Bleach Distance Calculation and Associated Calcs

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Damage3245

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This thread is to address a distance calculation in Bleach which I have had issues with for a long time.

After consulting with other staff members I’ve concluded that a calculation which uses extremely lowballed and obviously inaccurate figures should not be used just because the alternative is calc-stacking.

We’re using the results of this obviously incorrect calc to support multiple other calcs for the verse.

I think the simplest and best solution is to just get rid of this inaccurate distance calc and the associated calcs that depend on it.

The distance calc is here, which uses human freefall speed to get a distance of 88905600 m. Nowhere in the manga is it stated or implied that this is the case. It is obviously a figure that is being used just to avoid the problem of calc stacking.

The calcs that depend on it are:
The profiles this would affect are:

If any calc group members or staff members have any input, please feel free to add to this thread.
 
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AKM sama

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Ichigo using Shunpo would not run around the stairs in circles, but hop from edge to – on a subjacent level – edge.
Using a regular humans body freefall.

The first doesn't necessarily have to be true. This "method" of travelling is not stated anywhere, it seems like a big assumption to make. And even then, saying the method is to hop from one edge to another to another which would require momentary stops in between and then using free fall to calculate it which is entirely different method with continuous motion?

Low end or high end, this works with a lot of assumptions and is clearly inaccurate. It seems this was done just to dodge calc stacking so the feat does not reach outlier levels of speed. I agree with Damage here.
 
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Damage3245

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”I think the simplest and best solution is to just get rid of this inaccurate distance calc and the associated calcs that depend on it.”

So the big plan here is to eliminate the calc without trying to fix or find a better way to calc it? Just ignore the feat forever? Am I reading this right?
 

Damage3245

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@AppleLord; if somebody creates a more accurate version of the calc which can be evaluated, that'd be good. But my primary concern first of all is to remove the flawed calculations from the verse page and the profiles.
 
At a first glance based on my memory, I would probably have to agree with Damage. I think assuming freefalling would be just as flawed if not more than the normal shunpo method.
 
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Especially the whole "need to stop and rest" compleatly discarding the fact he has been able to move fight etc. For weeks and months
 
Especially the whole "need to stop and rest" compleatly discarding the fact he has been able to move fight etc. For weeks and months
That is honestly a fair point, but if you mean shunpo, it by nature isn't really a continuous speed boost. But I think by this point in the series if we found some way to accept his speed or at least use a bare minimum based off things outside of a calc (which there is plenty of) then there should probably be some way to apply it.
 
So let me get this right, this calc that multiple staff praised as good is actually bad (even though multiple knowledgeable dudes called it out several times over the course of 2 years or so) and the alternative here that everyone agrees with is to scrap the calc completely and leave the verse with no alternatives?
 
I'm confused, and also not sure if I should post this question here.

If the calculation is so blatantly lowballed and only inaccurate in the sense that we all know that the values should be higher, why wouldn't the freefall distance simply give everyone who scales to it an At Least? It provides a nice minimum to use as reference.

The visuals blatantly show that Ichigo jumped off the edge of the SKP and fell. So unless the argument is that he somehow fell slower than freefall (and I don't understand why the calc didn't just use terminal velocity) there is no way the distance could be less than this. And thus, no way the speed values could be less than they are. Unless the speed calcs themselves are faulty, but they were evaluated so I find that unlikely.

The only problem there would be if speed values for the characters are later calc'ed to be slower.
 
The first doesn't necessarily have to be true. This "method" of travelling is not stated anywhere, it seems like a big assumption to make. And even then, saying the method is to hop from one edge to another to another which would require momentary stops in between and then using free fall to calculate it which is entirely different method with continuous motion?

Low end or high end, this works with a lot of assumptions and is clearly inaccurate. It seems this was done just to dodge calc stacking so the feat does not reach outlier levels of speed. I agree with Damage here.
I don’t see what makes this calc so hard to quantify? Normally it takes 12 hours. Ichigo does it in 9 going maximum speed (it’s the middle of a war). He isn’t traveling down a set of stairs. We legit see him every scene propelling down like a rocket.
 

Ricsi-viragosi

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For Sigurd, if they have arguments to justify this then that's great, but otherwise staff agreeing with it beforehand is not much an argument.

For Link Eternal, having a plain wrong calc and saying its a lowball doesn't really help much at all. As far as I understand using actual feats on their levels leads to massive outliers too, which makes it even worse.
 
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It actually takes 7 days of shunpo normally, that's what Kirinji told Ichigo IIRC, not 12 hours. Ichigo did it in 9h because he was hurrying as the invasion had already started.

Edit: ye, Kirinji said it would take Ichigo a week with his regular shunpo:
0555-005.png
 
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For Sigurd, if they have arguments to justify this then that's great, but otherwise staff agreeing with it beforehand is not much an argument.

For Link Eternal, having a plain wrong calc and saying its a lowball doesn't really help much at all. As far as I understand using actual feats on their levels leads to massive outliers too, which makes it even worse.
My point Risci is they intentionally agreed with it and forced us to use it for like 2 years...
 

M3X

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So let me get this right, this calc that multiple staff praised as good is actually bad (even though multiple knowledgeable dudes called it out several times over the course of 2 years or so) and the alternative here that everyone agrees with is to scrap the calc completely and leave the verse with no alternatives?
This. It is really hard to agree with a downgrade when the OP simply want to downgrade, and doesn't care for an alternative calc.
 
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Why do not use the speed of sound for the distance?

Discarding a calc when even by your admission is lowballed, and it is a constant speed feat in the verse since both auswhalen, and mimihagi, yet the lifting feat itself is that fast and are based to that distance is just do not want to find a solution for something that is important to the verse on this wiki, from my point of view removing that calc without find a solution is likely transform the profile is something even more innacurate.

I'm surprised that people actually agree with this, without even bothering to find a solution.
 
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Damage3245

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This. It is really hard to agree with a downgrade when the OP simply want to downgrade, and doesn't care for an alternative calc.

It's not much of a downgrade. The Yhwach with the Small Planet level calc scales to At least Planet level, and the characters who are Relativistic will either still be Relativistic for another reason or be Unknown.

@Tyri456; a solution is getting rid of the incorrect calcs. If somebody produces a more accurate calc, then great. But in the mean time there is nothing wrong with getting rid of the incorrect one.
 

M3X

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I don't care for their ratings, you are making a downgrade, you need to show us a solution. You can't simply downgrade this and ignore. YOU should give us a solution, and not wait some member create a new version of the calculation.

I am not in favor of this thread.
 

Damage3245

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I don't care for their ratings, you are making a downgrade, you need to show us a solution. You can't simply downgrade this and ignore. YOU should give us a solution, and not wait some member create a new version of the calculation.

I am not in favor of this thread.

Since when is that a rule? That a bad calc being removed has to automatically be replaced with another calc.
 

M3X

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It has to be a rule? Or you just don't want to recalc it? Anyway, my opinion wont change.
 

Damage3245

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It has to be a rule? Or you just don't want to recalc it? Anyway, my opinion wont change.

Okay, well I just checked with a Bureaucrat of the wiki and it isn't compulsory to re-calc a replacement. Bad calcs can just be removed entirely.
 

M3X

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Thanks for the OBVIOUS answer. My opinion wont change
 
Hmm, At Least, or just Higher Than would still be accurate, and since when were lowballs not allowed, because the calc is not wrong, it is minimal.

But regardless, my take: Removing this calc from feats in which this one is the sole justification is weird, but whatever.
Removing this calc from being a supporting feat is absolutely absurd, particularly when the feats this supports would be higher than it, so I disagree.

As for a solution:
Mimihagi would scale above Renji anyway no?
Auswählen and the death beam would just scale to Ywhach's attack speed, since they are his attacks. Lilotto would very minimally scale to this, (and since she was already Rel with an extremely lowballed calc, this shouldn't be a issue)
Small Planet gets axed, we don't need it anyway
 
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Why do not use the speed of sound for the distance?

Discarding a calc when even by your admission is lowballed, and it is a constant speed feat in the verse since both auswhalen, and mimihagi, yet the lifting feat itself is that fast and are based to that distance is just do not want to find a solution for something that is important to the verse on this wiki, from my point of view removing that calc without find a solution is likely transform the profile is something even more innacurate.

I'm surprised that people actually agree with this, without even bothering to find a solution.
That won't do. The character was going at max speeds and his casual speed after he arrives at the scene is blitzing lighting that is faster than natural lightning.
 
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That is honestly a fair point, but if you mean shunpo, it by nature isn't really a continuous speed boost. But I think by this point in the series if we found some way to accept his speed or at least use a bare minimum based off things outside of a calc (which there is plenty of) then there should probably be some way to apply it.
Shunpo is a "single-step" move, so Ichigo could travel 604800 seconds at 0.6 seconds per step according to Kirinji.

Here is a calc that I did for Shunsui back in SS arc.
 
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For the shunpo speed not Ichigo speed.
We can't called the "shunpo speed" for obvious reasons.

1. Shunpo is always portrait like-teleportation.
2. The shunpo statement was for the stairs.
3. We haven't seen any form of Shunpo that is not linear, so it won't work on the stairs.
4. Ichigo was shown breaking the sound barrier twice in a row, so we can at least put Shunpo at the speed of sound, but going by Shunsui's shunpo feat, not all Shunpo have the same feat.
6. Ichigo's shunpo blitzed Candice who is faster than natural lightning at the moment he crashed against the tower and appeared behind the female Quincies.
 
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"Using regular Shunpo will take 7 days"

So, human body falling is a no sense for the reasons above, speed of lighting can even be too much for normal shunpo, even do it can make sense, it can also not make sense from other point of view like using it for 7 days constantly.

My opinion, why do not use the speed of Sound?

Speed of Sound is something very basic for the verse, for something that has to mainteined for long distance, knowing that fodder hollow can have their speed rated as supersonic on our wiki, assuming that an average shinigami can blitz them as Ichigo did even in the firsts chapters, maintaning the speed of sound it is something really basic for standard shunpo speed.

It can be a good and accurate estimation of what Kirinji said, since we obviouly know, he do not know Ichigo since ichigo made the distance in 9 hours, Kirinji was obviously reffering to something like more based on an average opinion reagarding at least relevant Shinigami taht crossed the distance.

So, we have 604800 seconds, speed of sound is 343 m/s, distance is 208.051.200m

Which is for sure more accurate than the one currently used, and most likely the most accurate result you can obtain without calc-stacking.
 

Damage3245

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@Tyri456; do you think Ichigo's top speed is only around 14 times faster than the speed of sound?

Even if it is slightly more accurate, it still suffers from the same basic flaw as the current calc. Just trying to avoid calc-stacking should not be an excuse.
 
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@Tyri456; do you think Ichigo's top speed is only around 14 times faster than the speed of sound?

Even if it is slightly more accurate, it still suffers from the same basic flaw as the current calc. Just trying to avoid calc-stacking should not be an excuse.
We have three options.

1. Remove the calc altogether and never bring it up again.
2. Use calc-stacking (candice calc) or low-ball (speed of sound).
3. Use Ichigo's feat of blitzing faster than lighting speeds casually, as his "normal shunpo" speed.
 
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@Tyri456; do you think Ichigo's top speed is only around 14 times faster than the speed of sound?

Even if it is slightly more accurate, it still suffers from the same basic flaw as the current calc. Just trying to avoid calc-stacking should not be an excuse.
You are right, the current one suffers of that problem.

Using speed of sound avoid that problem completely to be honest.

And we are talking about travel speed, and a lowballed one.
 
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You are right, the current one suffers of that problem.

Using speed of sound avoid that problem completely to be honest.

And we are talking about travel speed, and a lowballed one.
OP doesn't want a lowballed calc that's the whole point of removing the calc. He wants an accurate one which which is only possible using lightning speeds and the 9 hours, but his suggestion is to remove it all together.
 

DemonGodMitchAubin

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Yeah, I can see major issues with this, free fall speed is just inaccurate, I wanted to try and be a devil’s advocate here, but this is just inherently flawed, in general I don’t like the idea of finding the distance of something by using a speed that is assumed, that kind of calc is just wrong in general unless you have a confirmed or nearly confirmed speed to use

So I agree that either the calcs get thrown away in general or we redo them using another method entirely
 
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OP doesn't want a lowballed calc that's the whole point of removing the calc. He wants an accurate one which which is only possible using lightning speeds and the 9 hours, but his suggestion is to remove it all together.
low ball calc are fine lol, the problem with the current one is that it is too much a low ball.

Using speed of sound is reasonable, and you can't really argue against it.
The only argument you can use here, is that it is too low, but the difference between human body fall and speed of sounds is enourmous, therefore, my solutions is by far more accurate.

Either way that was my suggestion, I do not see any other solution unless trying some sort of elaborate calc at the limit of the calc stacking trying to find Ichigo speed at the impact, using statements like situation or something like that.
 

Ricsi-viragosi

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Is there no speed statements for the verse for characters they are equal to or faster? You know, like "I can break the sound barrier" or "my attack crosses ten kilometers instantly!"?

Someone doesn't need to fix something to point out its broken, so the calc will certainly be removed as it is right now. If they have direct statements for a speed they are at though, the calc should be able to be made. Whether its an outlier though is another discussion again.
 

Damage3245

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With three staff members in agreement for removing the calcs, I'll take care of the editing for the profiles and the verse page tonight.
 

DemonGodMitchAubin

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Damage has begun his onslaught of chainsawing the tree that is Bleach, I pray for the supporters
 
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Not sure why you are rushing? I completely agree we should throw it out but a perfectly valid alternative of Mach 1 has been put forth as Ichigo breaks the sound barrier with his jump from the SKP. No idea why you don’t seem to even entertain the idea when you say you are fine with an alternative calc being done.
 

DemonGodMitchAubin

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I do agree this was fast, but my issue is still assuming speed and then using that assumed speed to find distance and then using that distance for another speed calc

Even with a higher speed, that method in general doesn’t seem right to me, are there any alternative methods we can use to find the distance?
 
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low ball calc are fine lol, the problem with the current one is that it is too much a low ball.

Using speed of sound is reasonable, and you can't really argue against it.
The only argument you can use here, is that it is too low, but the difference between human body fall and speed of sounds is enourmous, therefore, my solutions is by far more accurate.

Either way that was my suggestion, I do not see any other solution unless trying some sort of elaborate calc at the limit of the calc stacking trying to find Ichigo speed at the impact, using statements like situation or something like that.

How can you subject to use a "low-ball speed of sound for his maximum speed" when his "casual speed is faster than natural lightning"?

I addressed on post #29 that the speed of sound could be used, but that is still inaccurate for Ichigo who is top tier in the verse.

Squad 2 ninjas who are below lieutenants are lighting speed and that division specializes in shunpo. Shunsui's shunpo is MHS. And you want to use SOS for Ichigo's shunpo even when he never used shunpo in that scene? He flew down at max speeds and on arrival he casually blitzed a character that is faster than natural lighting.

The accurate and low-ball speed for his Shunpo is lightning speed which slower than his max speed used on the feat.
 
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With three staff members in agreement for removing the calcs, I'll take care of the editing for the profiles and the verse page tonight.
Agreeing without even properly counter what I posted, sure.

What is the point of make the post in first place. What is the point of letting member using this forum if what is needed is just 3 agreement from staff without even countering what members say?

Before closing this thread, at least explain me why speed of sound cannot be used when we know for sure is an higher speed, and I explained why it is right.
 
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How can you subject to use a "low-ball speed of sound for his maximum speed" when his "casual speed is faster than natural lightning"?

I addressed on post #29 that the speed of sound could be used, but that is still inaccurate for Ichigo who is top tier in the verse.

Squad 2 ninjas who are below lieutenants are lighting speed and that division specializes in shunpo. Shunsui's shunpo is MHS. And you want to use SOS for Ichigo's shunpo even when he never used shunpo in that scene? He flew down at max speeds and on arrival he casually blitzed a character that is faster than natural lighting.

The accurate and low-ball speed for his Shunpo is lightning speed which slower than his max speed used on the feat.
That do no address anything, Im not talking about Ichigo, and we are talking about travel speed, not sure why you keep saying the same thing.
 
I do agree this was fast, but my issue is still assuming speed and then using that assumed speed to find distance and then using that distance for another speed calc

Even with a higher speed, that method in general doesn’t seem right to me, are there any alternative methods we can use to find the distance?
I don’t really get this if the assumed speed is the bare min it could be. The feat can only be higher than that calc.
 

DemonGodMitchAubin

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Well, lowballing something severely doesn’t make it accurate, the issue here is that so many different speeds can be assumed meaning that the actual proper distance can vary extremely


The only analogy I can think of is that it’s like saying the distance is a number between 1 and 100 and then assuming 1 as a lowball, it’s just a very jank method that I don’t think can give us a solid distance that is accurate
 
Well, lowballing something severely doesn’t make it accurate, the issue here is that so many different speeds can be assumed meaning that the actual proper distance can vary extremely


The only analogy I can think of is that it’s like saying the distance is a number between 1 and 100 and then assuming 1 as a lowball, it’s just a very jank method that I don’t think can give us a solid distance that is accurate
I get that, but isn’t that a basic calc thing people do here? If every number isn’t given to you for the calc you use an assumption which is usually the lowest value as a low end because it can’t be disputed.

I’ve seen calcs of FTL characters using peak human reaction speeds.

everything for this feat is given to us besides how fast Ichigo was moving. We have a timeframe it normally takes and we have a timeframe Ichigo took. We know he traveled straight and he went at least as fast as the speed of sound...
 

DemonGodMitchAubin

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I get that, but isn’t that a basic calc thing people do here? If every number isn’t given to you for the calc you use an assumption which is usually the lowest value as a low end because it can’t be disputed.

I’ve seen calcs of FTL characters using peak human reaction speeds.

everything for this feat is given to us besides how fast Ichigo was moving. We have a timeframe it normally takes and we have a timeframe Ichigo took. We know he traveled straight and he went at least as fast as the speed of sound...
That’s a fair point, I’m more neutral now, still don’t like the scaling method in general, but I see where you’re coming from
 

Damage3245

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I'd be okay with that if we downgrade Ichigo's speed rating to Supersonic.

Otherwise we're just substituing one false value for another.
 

Ricsi-viragosi

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Using low-balls based on existing statements is absolutely something that can be done, Damage. If a person is stated to be faster than the speed of sound, then even if we have a higher speed rating for them, a calc can be done with speed of sound regardless.
 

Damage3245

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Using low-balls based on existing statements is absolutely something that can be done, Damage. If a person is stated to be faster than the speed of sound, then even if we have a higher speed rating for them, a calc can be done with speed of sound regardless.

Low-balling a calc by thousands of times just to get a value to use for the sake of other calcs is something that I'm not cool with.

We're basically saying "We're not allowed to calc this properly due to calc-stacking, so let's just throw in a much, much, much lower number so we can get something we can use."

You're using a value that you know for a fact is wrong. You know that Ichigo rushing at max speed is not travelling at around Supersonic speed.
 
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Speed of Sound is the minimun speed feat used for bleach.
Coming from standard explosion, stanrdard speed of sound feats.

Why it cant be used as standard value for the shunpo for travel speed in this case? Speed of sound is the requirement for any average relevent shinigami that want to kill hollow.

Assuming That is the standard value for shunpo used by Kirinji, is extremely fair and consistent.

What is wrong in using speed of sound for travel speed on 7 days? When average shinigame are MHS.
 

Ricsi-viragosi

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First of all, it would simply not be incorrect. No matter how you slice it, he was moving faster than sound at that point, and saying that with calc stacking the feat could be higher applies to most calcs involving interaction with distances or multiple characters.

This calc was wrong due to the baseless premise, not because it is a low-ball.
 
“Using speed of characters or attacks calculated at other instances can't be used, as characters and attacks can vary in speed. This is the case regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do his best or anything similar.”

“The reason it is usually disregarded is because it has shown itself inconsistent many times and usually gives inflated results. Through the method any long running franchises could also scale their stats infinitely upwards without actually ever showing any feats in the range they are listed.”

Like it’s literally on the calc stacking page not to do that. Ichigos speed rating is irrelevant to calcs.
 
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I recommend using the lightning speed Ichigo for the Soul King Palace distance:

Ichigo's casual speed after his training in the final arc is faster than lighting speed, and his max speed needed for this calc is “unknown” so we have to use the speed of lightning for the calc as a low-ball.

But how did I reach the conclusion that Ichigo is lightning speed?

Ichigo's minimum shown speed is casually blitzing point blank lightning, after he arrived from the palace distance. It means that his speed cannot have changed.

0582-002.png
0582-003.png


Candice lightning is summoned from the clouds.

0581-015.png


The light novels confirmed that even when the lightning girl (in the scan above), Candice's power got weaker (Yhwach took her Quincy Vollstandig which matches the Shinigami Bankai multiplier of 5-10x) still surpassed the power of any lightning in nature.

tQOU6ot.png


And it doesn't seem to be about the power, but just in general. Clouds and sounds of thunder are referenced multiple times. (There are also other feats/explanation for other character's abilities like Meninas and Giriko.)

vIIjkwH.png


In this other scenario, Tokinada a Captain who is weaker than Ichigo, reacted to the speed of lighting from a fodder Ninja from the second division who are not even captain level.

y6KIuQF.jpeg


There’s no way Ichigo isn’t that lighting speed casually as shown in the scans, there is no outlier, and is fair to use.

0581-022.png


I'll use 443842 m/s the average lightning speed accepted in VS Battle Wiki, based on the feat above.

"The speed of lightning can vary mostly in the range of 1.0-14×105 m/s. For the purpose of calculating speed feats we use the average lightning speed of 4.4×105 m/s (Mach 1294), which is suggested by this study. Similar studies have found average speeds within the same order of magnitude, albeit lower."

And before you say, “he rested” Ichigo training for a week in a treadmill designed to drain his spiritual energy and trained for months without rest.

ct2IlC4.png


Here is the accepted stamina thread for Ichigo's character.

Now that that is out of the way let’s make the calc.

CALC

Timeframe
:

Normally it would take a week:

0555-005.png


604800 seconds, but... Ichigo arrived earlier than expected by those who trained him, going at full speed.

He even crashed on arrival.

0581-021.png


From the Clock Tower in Seireitei, and Ichibei's statement.

The Quincy take over Seireitei began at 5 pm the first day.

0546-011.png


Ichigo went down after 3 hours at 8 pm

0555-007.png


Ichigo arrived at 5:15 am the next day.

0581-021.png


That's 9 hours and 15 minutes or 33,300 seconds.

distance = speed x time

distance = 14779900000 miles

Important note the distance isn't "realistic" is not a counter argument, because the distance is in between two different dimensions that can only be cross when the 72 barriers/doors that connected and open. Ichigo broke them all on his way down.

0223-007.png

0585-005.png
 

Damage3245

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@Sigurd; that's a reason against using Ichigo's speed in the calc, yes. Which is why I'm suggesting we don't calc it using Ichigo's speed at all - including obviously wrong values for his speed.
 
@Sigurd; that's a reason against using Ichigo's speed in the calc, yes. Which is why I'm suggesting we don't calc it using Ichigo's speed at all - including obviously wrong values for his speed.
Speed of Sound is not a calculated speed Damage. It’s the quantifiably visible speed we see him traveling at in scans. It can be used. It’s not even as assumption it’s factually what we see on the panel.
 
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I recommend using the lightning speed Ichigo for the Soul King Palace distance:

Ichigo's casual speed after his training in the final arc is faster than lighting speed, and his max speed needed for this calc is “unknown” so we have to use the speed of lightning for the calc as a low-ball.

But how did I reach the conclusion that Ichigo is lightning speed?

Ichigo's minimum shown speed is casually blitzing point blank lightning, after he arrived from the palace distance. It means that his speed cannot have changed.

0582-002.png
0582-003.png


Candice lightning is summoned from the clouds.

0581-015.png


The light novels confirmed that even when the lightning girl (in the scan above), Candice's power got weaker (Yhwach took her Quincy Vollstandig which matches the Shinigami Bankai multiplier of 5-10x) still surpassed the power of any lightning in nature.

tQOU6ot.png


And it doesn't seem to be about the power, but just in general. Clouds and sounds of thunder are referenced multiple times. (There are also other feats/explanation for other character's abilities like Meninas and Giriko.)

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In this other scenario, Tokinada a Captain who is weaker than Ichigo, reacted to the speed of lighting from a fodder Ninja from the second division who are not even captain level.

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There’s no way Ichigo isn’t that lighting speed casually as shown in the scans, there is no outlier, and is fair to use.

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I'll use 443842 m/s the average lightning speed accepted in VS Battle Wiki, based on the feat above.

"The speed of lightning can vary mostly in the range of 1.0-14×105 m/s. For the purpose of calculating speed feats we use the average lightning speed of 4.4×105 m/s (Mach 1294), which is suggested by this study. Similar studies have found average speeds within the same order of magnitude, albeit lower."

And before you say, “he rested” Ichigo training for a week in a treadmill designed to drain his spiritual energy and trained for months without rest.

ct2IlC4.png


Here is the accepted stamina thread for Ichigo's character.

Now that that is out of the way let’s make the calc.

CALC

Timeframe
:

Normally it would take a week:

0555-005.png


604800 seconds, but... Ichigo arrived earlier than expected by those who trained him, going at full speed.

He even crashed on arrival.

0581-021.png


From the Clock Tower in Seireitei, and Ichibei's statement.

The Quincy take over Seireitei began at 5 pm the first day.

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Ichigo went down after 3 hours at 8 pm

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Ichigo arrived at 5:15 am the next day.

0581-021.png


That's 9 hours and 15 minutes or 33,300 seconds.

distance = speed x time

distance = 14779900000 miles

Important note the distance isn't "realistic" is not a counter argument, because the distance is in between two different dimensions that can only be cross when the 72 barriers/doors that connected and open. Ichigo broke them all on his way down.

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This seems good imo
 
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While I personally would prefer using lightning speed as we visibly see Ichigo perform such feats directly after this feat, I can see why it would be ignored in favour of Mach 1 since that is actually shown in the feat in question. To appease supporters of either number, a low end of Mach 1 should be used (as this is the minimum Ichigo could have gone) and a high end of lightning (since he is shown to be faster than said speeds directly after). Calc members obviously have final say on which end is used.
 
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While I personally would prefer using lightning speed as we visibly see Ichigo perform such feats directly after this feat, I can see why it would be ignored in favour of Mach 1 since that is actually shown in the feat in question. To appease supporters of either number, a low end of Mach 1 should be used (as this is the minimum Ichigo could have gone) and a high end of lightning (since he is shown to be faster than said speeds directly after). Calc members obviously have final say on which end is used.
There's actually no reason to disagree with this^

If we are not allowed to use Ichigo's actual speed to avoid inflated numbers via calc-stacking. Then by default we can only get lowballs off of what we see, so arguing the distance won't be entirely accurate because the author didn't spoon feed us the exact speed Ichigo travelled in meters per second is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, the fact that Damage doesn't even want to entertain these alternatives and is cutting off the discussion in favor of his choice is kind of disgusting. This is a dialogue, let the discussion wrap up before you decide everyone else's viewpoints are irrelevant.
 
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Ichigo going at speed of lighting is not that incosistent to be honest, but I think for some reasons there is the idea it cant be used even if there are not reasons to do not use it.

Either way I argued to use the speed of sound not for Ichigo (which obv go faster than sound)
But the shunpo average speed on the 7 days. Those are 2 different Calc.
 
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For ichigo LS speed would be as a lowball imo but is safest to use

Also squad 2 assassins are speed of lightning as said above
 
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Issue with the average Shunpo speed is that we don’t actually have that figure. We have calcs for people slower than Ichigo but those automatically can’t be used and Omnitsukido are praised for their speed meaning they would be above the average even if Ichigo logically scales above them so that is out as well imo. It would definitely be valid support for the fact Ichigo is FTE to lightning timers right after the travel feat.
 

Damage3245

VS Battles
Administrator
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The changes have been made. Another calc can be made if anybody is interested in making one. I'm closing this thread for now since the original proposal has been implemented.
 
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