Bill Cipher vs the Lord of Games

[GyroNutz]

So I wanted to try this guy out, and also I wanted to join the Cipher spam before it was too late. So here's the best of both worlds.

Both are in their Low 2-C forms

Finally speed is equalized, otherwise SBA

Who wins and why?

The Dorito: 7 (Zachary, Dargoo, Nedge, notchewbacca. Ricsi, Jim, Steven)

The Pong Game: 1 (KarmodF)

Inconclusive:

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Bill via mind control

 

[GyroNutz]

Bill's never come close to mind controlling a nigh-omniscient character right?

 

[DMB_1]

For a second, I thought Bill was going to fight Yami Yugi.

Fortunately, it's not the case.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Yugi by being High 2-A

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Wait, since when does Mindhax/Control have anything to do with intelligence? Does Lord of Games have any resistance feats?

 

[GyroNutz]

It doesn't usually.

But if your mind is quadrillions upon quadrillions times more complex than your average brain, it should be significantly harder to control, no?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

It doesn't usually.

But if your mind is quadrillions upon quadrillions times more complex than your average brain, it should be significantly harder to control, no?

That only applies to 3D mind hax. Bill is 4D so it's fair game.

 

[GyroNutz]

Bill has 4D mind-hax?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Ah, so if what Shadow says is true, I vote Bill.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Is the lord of games a 4-D being or just a 3-D with 4-D power?

 

[GyroNutz]

When a character treats 3-D characters as fiction, they themselves are 4-D right?

If that's not how it works, then the latter

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Bill has 4D mind-hax?

If he's 4D then I don't see why he wouldn't have mindhax on that level.

 

[GyroNutz]

Fair enough.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, what does Bill have for LOG's plot manipulation?

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

Fair enough.
Playing Devil's Advocate here, what does Bill have for LOG's plot manipulation?

Shouldn't concept or law manip take care of that?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

If he's 4D then I don't see why he wouldn't have mindhax on that level.

Lol no that's not how it works whatsoever

 

[GyroNutz]

From what Cal said, Bill's concept manip is pretty bad. Idk much about cipher though, so I'll step back from the debate

 

[DMB_1]

Shouldn't concept or law manip take care of that?

Bill's concept manipulation is a bit weird (thought he claimed to have created and destroyed the seven deadly sins in a QaA).

I don't know how his La works.

But noo, they don't necessarely counter it.

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

From what Cal said, Bill's concept manip is pretty bad. Idk much about cipher though, so I'll step back from the debate

Isn't creating than destroying the seven deadly sins a pretty high feat?

 

[GyroNutz]

Short answer is not really

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

oh but who has the edge since it seems bill has a greater range and low godly and it could be assumed that his lifting strength is far superior but log has plot manip and appears to have an AP advantage

 

[KarmodF]

LoG can literally put Bill on a game and get rid of his powers tbh.

 

[Elizhaa]

LoG can literally put Bill on a game and get rid of his powers tbh.

Lord of Games's Power Nullification at best work only and Magic and Biological Manipulation and other it is featless. BFR won't work since Bill Cipher got Teleportation

 

[GyroNutz]

Just want to clarify that on the profile, it doesn't mean those two abilities. It means it nullifies abilities that you have biologically (i.e. regen) and abilities you have via magic + spells (i.e. nearly all of Gruntilda's abilities).

So as an example he could nullify fire from a fire-breathing dragon, or fire from a magician's wand, but hasn't been shown to be able to nullify fire from, say, a flamethrower. Even then he probably has some feat of nullifying technological based powers but I haven't found one, so let's assume not.

 

[Elizhaa]

@GyoroNutz, I agree that he can nullify Gruntilda's abilities but he can't nullify Bill Cipher's greater hax like Causality Manipulation, Physics Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Mind Manipulation/Madness Manipulation and others inapplicable to Gruntilda's, magic, or Banjo & Kazooie.

So, Bill Cipher would win with low or mid difficulty.

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

4-1 i believe in bills favor

 

[KarmodF]

@GyoroNutz snip

Those dont work offensively per-se, Bill is made up of these (Geometrical shapes and mathematical problems) not only that LoG have said that he knows how the game is gonna end even before the first levels, meaning he has a high degree of Precog. and Universal Time stop (wich himself is imunne).

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

1. Bill also has precog sooo......

2. Bill also has time manipulation and I don't think time stop is going to work since it is implied that he transcended the concept and LoG has resistance not immunity

 

[KarmodF]

1. At what level?

2. LoG can stop time for as much as he wants really, plus Bill doesnt have Time stop to counter and his Time manip. could be as simple as going backwards in time.

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

actually i think 5-2 if you count my vote

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

His precog is largely unknown like knowing exactly what dipper would do in the next 3 seconds and knowing the exact time and date and reason for one's death but we don't really know how far it goes as far as i know

Time stop is a variation of time manipulation so bill does have it was even shown in his first appearance and weirdmaggedon where his mere entry in both seemed to stop time

 

[GyroNutz]

Votes counted and all, but the question remains

What does Bill have for LOG's plot manip?

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

Votes counted and all, but the question remains
What does Bill have for LOG's plot manip?

Well he doesn't really have anything for that but does he use it in character?

 

[GyroNutz]

Yes, the second he got annoyed he changed the plot of the game to suit himself.

It's also his job to make the plot of the Banjo-Kazooie games (and all Rare games for that matter but that's in a seperate key)

 

[KarmodF]

-Then LoG has a huge advantage by default

-No, thats like saying Goku can manipulate heat because his transformation into SSJ made a massive heatwave, plus LoG's Infinite Time stop>>>>>Bill's

 

[KarmodF]

Gyro is better to put the name of the voters like Chewie and Zachary so we dont confuse the votes.

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

-Then LoG has a huge advantage by default
-No, thats like saying Goku can manipulate heat because his transformation into SSJ made a massive heatwave, plus LoG's Infinite Time stop<<<<<<Bill's

You said LoG has a weaker time stop by a lot But I get what you mean and no i said time stop is a sub category of time manipulation so yes bill has it and he showed feats of it you are saying that i mean if something one person did causes an effect (the heat wave) than they have it

It is just who shoots first bill does whatever he needs to get rid of the enemy he knows is a threat but LoG also does how far does LoG Niigh Omniscience go is it limited to the game or franchise he is in or multiverse because if so than he may not know bill if yes than who has a higher degree of it?

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

Gyro is better to put the name of the voters like Chewie and Zachary so we dont confuse the votes.

agreed

 

[KarmodF]

Still, Bill's Time manip./stop is far below LoG's

LoG knows everything in the Universe and other games, he just doesnt know if there is gonna be a Banjo 3.

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

I mean does it extend past other universes to other multiverses?

there is no reason to believe that unless it showed obvious superior showings