Bill Cipher vs. Rick Sanchez REMATCH

[CinnabarManx421]

So Rick recently got a whole bunch more abilites added to his page and it was decided a bunch of his old matches should be redone so here we go. I'll use the same standards as the original match.

-Both are Low 2-C

- Speed is =

-Rick has 1 month of prep time and has prior knowledge in Bill

-Battle takes place in Gravity Falls

Rick Sanchez: (7 votes, Emperor, MrKerf, Quirky, Zachary, Gilad, Ciruno, Mister)

Bill Cipher: (0 votes)

Incon: (0 votes)

 

[GoCommitDi]

Bill snaps

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Rick has prep and has basic knowledge on Bill so he knows about the snap and comes up with countermeasures for it.

 

[GoCommitDi]

what in his equipment will save him from instantly being turned into a tapestry?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

His time stop/time manipulation. Or the phoenix project. Or intangibility.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

He also has a beam in his watch which bypasses durability and turns people into ashes or his countless other technology which bypasses durability.

 

[GoCommitDi]

Low godly says no to the watch

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Sealing should do it then.

 

[GoCommitDi]

teleportation says no as well

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

How does teleportation counter sealing?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bill would instantly transmutate him AGAIN. Like, what has changed from last time that would prevent Bill from winning again?

Rick or his machines has no resistance to transmutation, and since it doesn't require time to travel, Bill would perform it much faster than whatever Rick can throw at him. And like other people said, Bill has Low Godly regen so unless Rick has EE or a similar ability, he can't bypass the regen

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

His time stop/time manipulation. Or the phoenix project. Or intangibility.

Bill also have time manipulation and time travel, so that win't help Rick at all

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Again Rick has preparation and knows the basics about Bill. So he comes prepared with his best technology to take him down. So he just presses a button a stops time then seals Bill. Or erases his memory and BFRs.

If Rick dies he will just revive and travel back with better preparation because of the phoenix project.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Bill having time manipulation or time travel means nothing because in character he doesn't use his most lethal hax and just plays around. So transmuting is his go to. Also having an ability doesn't mean he resists it.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Again Rick has preparation and knows the basics about Bill.

"Knowing the basics" wouldn't mean he knows everything about Bill. He would only know the obvious stuff such as his handshake/possesion, his immortality, his reality warping and such. He wouldn't know about the snap since even characters like Dipper who had knowledge about Bill didn't knew he could transmutate with his snap.

Regardless, Bill's transmutation doesn't travel and since Bill starts with it, he would instantly turn Rick alongside his machines to tapstries

 

[GoCommitDi]

stopping time isn't really something rick would start with either, he has explicitly stated it's not something he likes doing

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Also with what Rick normally starts? Since unless he starts with sealing or bfr, he's screwed.

Another thing is that Bill resists time stop, as he literally moved normally after causing time to halt in the start of weirdmaggedon

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

stopping time isn't really something rick would start with either, he has explicitly stated it's not something he likes doing

Exactly, and Bill would start with transmutation and will do it pretty fast

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Bill's signature is pretty basic information but the OP can be more clearer by what he means by basics.

I don't even think Bill starts transmutation that completely incaps anyway sometimes he just messes with your body but not completely turning you into an object. If that happens then Rick would literally kill himself to inact the phoenix project and come back much more prepared. If Rick starts with stopping time it just requires a press of a button. Sometimes Bill just monologues too or doesn't kill you because you're insignificant.

Rick would stop time for someone he knows he can't beat conventionally. Pretty much fighting god with the reality warping.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Bill just wasn't affected by his own imposed ability it's not like he would resist a time stop.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Bill's signature is pretty basic information but the OP can be more clearer by what he means by basics.

Well like I said I just used the stipulations in the original match but I can change it to just prior knowledge if it's less confusing.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I don't even think Bill starts transmutation that completely incaps anyway sometimes he just messes with your body but not completely turning you into an object. If that happens then Rick would literally kill himself to inact the phoenix project and come back much more prepared. If Rick starts with stopping time it just requires a press of a button. Sometimes Bill just monologues too or doesn't kill you because you're insignificant.

Bill's transmutation incaps instantly once he manages to complete it, and it happens very fast. Also, Bill only plays around when he knows the enemy can't hurt him. Take for example the scene where the Pines family and their friends almost complete the zodiac. Bill messed around but the moment the characters intented to fight him, he immediately transmutated them. And the battle with Rick should be no different.

Also, how fast is the revival stuff? Since if Rick doesn't come back in less than a week, then Rick would BFR-ed himself and he still can't bypass Low Godly. That, and there's also the fact that outside influence in battles is forbidden in matches so Rick would only be able to use what he has when the match starts

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Ok.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Changed it.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

He plays around when he thinks the enemy can't hurt him. I saw in Weirdmaggedon when Stan Pines I think intended to fight him so he transmuted him because he knows he actually means something and wanted to torment but when Dipper intended to he just laughed. So it really depends on how he perceives a character. Rick isn't really anyone he knows or is significant. He has tranmuted random characters before but that was for fun and it wasn't through snaps it was through beams.

It took him like a few hours give or take maybe like a day to get back to his dimension. He can bypass Low-Godly with sealing or BFR. It isn't really outside influence it's just something that happens to him when he dies and it is technology built by alternate versions of himself which his mind transfers over to a new cloned body.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Anyway if Rick has prior knowledge he should know about the snap. So he can just make counter measures for it. Like he can turn intangible. Time-stopping is still plausible which basically confirms a win. With prep there is a lot he can do like make sure certain instances happens when Bill arrives. He can creates robots of himself to fool Bill. Distractions, people he can prepare for Bill to mess with while he tries to catch him off-guard.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

It took him like a few hours give or take maybe like a day to get back to his dimension. He can bypass Low-Godly with sealing or BFR. It isn't really outside influence it's just something that happens to him when he dies and it is technology built by alternate versions of himself which his mind transfers over to a new cloned body.

The part where he get help from his alternate versions is outside help since they weren't in this battle and therfore, can't interfere with it. Likewise, Bill is not allowed to bring the henchmaniacs to the battle.

Also, you did not answered my question to what Rick will start with. Also, how long for him it takes to do either his sealing or BFR? (which doesn't really matter since Bill has Precognition that seems to be almost passive)

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

It isn't outside help. First of all it's literally himself. Secondly it's not even them helping. It's just technology already built which his mind automatically transfers too. It's not like an alternate Rick pulling Main Ricks mind into another body. It's done automatically via tech.

If he has prior knowledge he will start with whatever is necessary. Sealing takes a push of a button and BFR is through his gun so just shoot his gun. Also I don't see how Bill has passive precog. If Bill has passive precog then it makes everything Rick prepares for obsolete.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

If he has prior knowledge he will start with whatever is necessary. Sealing takes a push of a button and BFR is through his gun so just shoot his gun. Also I don't see how Bill has passive precog. If Bill has passive precog then it makes everything Rick prepares for obsolete.

Bill's precognition is very good, as he already told Ford exactly how he would die when first meeting him, so he could possibly see what Rick will do with a single glance.

Also, snapping a finger is much, much quicker than firing a gun toward Bill, and it would more often than not be faster than pushing a button, so Rick wouldn't even succeed pressing the button. Also, does the sealing happens instantanouslyafter he presses the button? Since if not, Bill would: A. dodge the attack, and B. Rick and the machine would both be transmutated before it'll work

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I mean since Rick has prior knowledge all he would really need to do is stop time and then seal or BFR Bill. I'm assuming Bill hardly uses his precog since there are events that happened which he didn't know about. To stop time he pushes a button. The speed difference between snapping fingers and pushing a button is pretty insignificant. Bear in mind Rick has a month to prepare for the snap and is a supergenius. So he can create multiple things to confuse or distract Bill. He can create a clone exactly like him to engage with Bill whilst he stops time or something.

I'm not sure if sealing is instant. He could just do it in stopped time if not.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I mean since Rick has prior knowledge all he would really need to do is stop time and then seal or BFR Bill. I'm assuming Bill hardly uses his precog since there are events that happened which he didn't know about. To stop time he pushes a button. The speed difference between snapping fingers and pushing a button is pretty insignificant. Bear in mind Rick has a month to prepare for the snap and is a supergenius. So he can create multiple things to confuse or distract Bill. He can create a clone exactly like him to engage with Bill whilst he stops time or something.

Rick wouldn't stop time while in character, at least not as his first action, and Bill would instantly use transmutation, which can affect multiple people at once. And attack speed do matters. A lot. Also as I stated Bill resist his own time stop and have even more time manipulation that'll counter Rick's time stop. Also, do the sealing need to travel the distance to Bill? Since Bill's snap does not.

Also, Bill would usually either transmutate or blast enemies he doesn't know much about, or sees as threats. Him playing around was just to torment the Pines Family. Against Rick he would be as arrogant as he was while battling Dipper. Also, in the final part of weirdmaggedon, when Bill fights the shacktron, he immediately went to destroy it rather than playing around, and it was only the anti-Bill shield that saved the heroes

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

He would if he knows what he is dealing with and cannot deal with it in any other fashion from what we've seen, being a supergenius and all. The reason he doesn't like to stop time is because normally he never needs to and goes on adventure for the thrill to dampen his nihilistic emotions. So yes he stops time. As I said Rick can make countermeasures so he can stop time before Bill can snap since he knows about it. So he can cause distractions, make clones of himself to engage Bill which allows him to stop time first. Also attack speed here doesn't matter at all because we're comparing the speeds of pushing a button to snapping fingers which is irrelevant anyway since Rick should do it first.

Also as I said before he's not resisting his own ability. It's his own imposed ability. It's like saying Dio resists time stop because he can move in his own stopped time. Well that's wrong because he cannot move in Jotaro's time stop. So no Bill does not resist time stop.

Sealing just sucks the opponent into a box iirc.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

He would if he knows what he is dealing with and cannot deal with it in any other fashion from what we've seen, being a supergenius and all. The reason he doesn't like to stop time is because normally he never needs to and goes on adventure for the thrill to dampen his nihilistic emotions. So yes he stops time. As I said Rick can make countermeasures so he can stop time before Bill can snap since he knows about it. So he can cause distractions, make clones of himself to engage Bill which allows him to stop time first. Also attack speed here doesn't matter at all because we're comparing the speeds of pushing a button to snapping fingers which is irrelevant anyway since Rick should do it first.
Also as I said before he's not resisting his own ability. It's his own imposed ability. It's like saying Dio resists time stop because he can move in his own stopped time. Well that's wrong because he cannot move in Jotaro's time stop. So no Bill does not resist time stop.

Sealing just sucks the opponent into a box iirc.

Bill would not be bothered by multiple Rick clones since he would transmutate them all at once. I already explained that point and Bill would definitely not hesitate to do the snap. And attack speed matters a lot since if Bill snaps once, Rick is immediately incaped. Both of Rick's attacks are with a press of a button, but snapping is usually fastef and theteforr Bill will win first. Also, that bfr is literally just portal creation, and since Bill has dimensional travel, he could just escape from there. Idk about his sealing though, but it sounds very specific and I don't know if it can affect 4D characters such as Bill

Also, Unless Rick is bloodlusted, he would start with what he usually do when he starts matches, and since time stop is OOC for him, Bill should be able to pull a win

 

[Eficiente]

>"Rick has prior knowledge in Bill"

This seals Bill's fate, really, iirc the original match didn't have this. Assuming this means that Rick knows as much of Bill as one can see in his profile then this is how it would go:

To kill Bill nothing of what Rick specifically has can do the job, but he can create something/a plan to do that with slightly modified versions of the stuff he has used before. Particularly his dream inception, the rest speaks for itself.

For survivability, Rick can make something to kill himself to prevent incapacitation or just manually kill himself & know how he's going to die via a death crystal. He knows that he's fighting someone with thought-based powers, after all. Even the creators know that Rick can still be killed by non-conventional means, so I would think that Rick himself would not think himself as immortal.

Now, if "prior knowledge in Bill" means something else then this is not how the match goes and we need more specific information.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

To kill Bill nothing of what Rick specifically has can do the job, but he can create something/a plan to do that with slightly modified versions of the stuff he has used before. Particularly his dream inception, the rest speaks for itself.

How exactly would that kill Bill? I don't really understand how Bill would not just transmutate him the moment the match starts

 

[Eficiente]

Bill doesn't always lead with that, he doesn't have a starting move, let alone would he do that "the moment the match starts", please do not repeat that to me again, I saw you saying it before, I know you believe that, I just disagree.

Dying in a dream means dying in real live and dreamers can warp reality there, they could power null Bill to keep it there or likely even kill him.

A more relatable way to kill Bill would be to turn his non-corporeal state corporeal and then kill him with anything like that, he would no longer be non-corporeal inside of his body as that body is what his non-corporeal state was. This was shown in the first episode of season 4 when Rick's tech was accidentally used to turn a hologram corporeal.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bill doesn't always lead with that, he doesn't have a starting move, let alone would he do that "the moment the match starts", please do not repeat that to me again, I saw you saying it before, I know you believe that, I just disagree.
Dying in a dream means dying in real live and dreamers can warp reality there, they could power null Bill to keep it there or likely even kill him.

A more relatable way to kill Bill would be to turn his non-corporeal state corporeal and then kill him with anything like that, he would no longer be non-corporeal inside of his body as that body is what his non-corporeal state was. This was shown in the first episode of season 4 when Rick's tech was accidentally used to turn a hologram corporeal.

That's not just me saying, this is how Bill matches were for a long time (Bill starts with transmutation), and if he doesn't have a starting move, then we also can't make battles with Bill since there are so much possibilities for him to do a first move. In those situations, the community here assumed he'll use first his most used move, which was transmutation. If you have a problem with Bill's starting move, then make a CRT for it and discuss about it, since I didn't made it up arbitrarily.

Bill wouldn't try to go to Rick's dreams since he needs the handshake to get in his mind. Though if Bill does get in, he can also reality warp Rick's mind as well. Him being a supergenius doesn't make him less human.

Also hologram =/= 2D soul. And if Rick would try to turn his soul corpereal, Bill would just snap before Rick could do anythig about it, since I don't think he can do it passively, especially when it was made by accident.

Again, unless Rick can incap or kill Bill in his first move, all Bill needs is to snap his fingers. Also Bill has precognition, which means he could see what Rick will try to do before he'll do it

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

He would be bothered by clones if he thinks they're the real thing. Bill dealing with the clones all at once or just playing with them gives Rick ample time to stop time. Snapping and pressing a button speeds are insignificant because Bill won't snap first because Rick just prepares things to prevent him from doing it to him specifically. BFR is portal creation. It's just he can throw Bill into another dimension. Also dimensional travel requires 2-A range for him to come back.

Rick with one month of prep and knowledge on Bill would start with whatever he needs to win. Which includes time stop.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Also Bill never uses precognition in combat.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

He would be bothered by clones if he thinks they're the real thing. Bill dealing with the clones all at once or just playing with them gives Rick ample time to stop time. Snapping and pressing a button speeds are insignificant because Bill won't snap first because Rick just prepares things to prevent him from doing it to him specifically. BFR is portal creation. It's just he can throw Bill into another dimension. Also dimensional travel requires 2-A range for him to come back.
Rick with one month of prep and knowledge on Bill would start with whatever he needs to win. Which includes time stop.

Bill has the 2-A range with dimensional travel. Or at least he should have, since the GF multiverse is also infinite and Bill could potentially reach anywhere in it. Also he took over the Nightmare realm and controlled the space within it so that's another example of a 2-A dimensional travel range. (I'm willing to accept Bill as a Low 2-C, but he should at leasf have s 2-A range)

Bill would not be bothered by clones since: A. The snap deals with all of them at once, and B. Rick still needs to push a button to execute it.

Bill's precognition is nearly passive, so he would know what he needs almost instantly, like when he was about to tell Soos the exact time of his death just by looking at him once. And looking few minutes forwards is much easier than years forwards.

Also Bill would resist time stop with his own time manipulation

Something else that I didn't mentioned, is that since this is weirdmaggedon Bill, the effects of weirdmaggedon (such as the weirdness wave) would come into effect when Bill entered gravity falls. No matter what Rick planned, they aren't fail proof and the effects of weirdmaggedon can foil his plans in an unexpected way (such as when Ford intended to blast Bill with his gun, when Bill wasn't looking and was distracted, but the wave cause a thing to interrupt Ford and prevent him from shooting accurately)