Ben 10 vs Danny Phantom

(Realized the majority of Ben’s Aliens were upgraded to 6-B and thought this was a decent idea)

Ben Tennyson (Omniverse) vs Danny Phantom (Season 3 + Ecto-Skeleton)

Speed equalized; Master Control is enabled but AX, Atomix/Atomic-X, Eatle and Way Big are restricted

Fighters start 100 meters apart in the Null Void

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I'm not sure Ben has enough npi (I'm sure his attacks weren't able to directly damage Zs'Skayr, so it's unlikely), Ghostfreak could be useful

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I had a feeling this was gonna be done at some point and boy it's gonna be a hassle. I'll do this like I've done previous threads that aren't created by me and that is listing categories and who has the advantage in which regard.

Attack Potency/Durability
From what I can see, Ben's 6-B Aliens are back scaling from there High 6-B selves who scale from this feat from https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Vilgax. Meanwhile 6-B Danny Phantom is around baseline at minimum for being at least twice as strong as Vortex who did this feat.

Given the Ben 10 Aliens are in the upper border of 6-B as signified by the "+" next to their Attack Potency, I'll say Ben's 6-B Aliens can smack Danny around in terms of AP. Now while Danny can amplify his physical strength with ectoplasmic energy and has Reactive Power Level which can easily allow him to tare apart people on his level or who were stomping him, the gap is unknown.

So Ben's Aliens have a good advantage in terms of power.

Speed
Speed is Equalized so this doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned.

Intelligence/Experience/Skill
I haven't watched the later Ben 10 series apart from some episodes of each but that was years ago so I can't really go into detail on how smart Ben is but I can say he's obviously adapt enough in combat due to his various battles with different aliens and capable of using his aliens abilities well when needed. There are aliens that make Ben extremely intelligent beyond reason such as Gray Matter and Brainstorm.

Danny's similar to normal Ben's intelligence as he's combat a verity of enemies that while all were ghosts, each had a unique ability and personality so they didn't all fight the same and he's even managed to outsmart Gifted and Extraordinary Genius like Skulker and Vlad Plasmius at times. He's well adapt at using his powers when the situation calls for it so he isn't a complete fool.

So in the end I'm gonna give intelligence to Ben but only when using aliens like Gray Matter and Brainstorm, other than that I wouldn't say either is far smarter than the other in terms of combat skill in there own regards.

Stamina
Many of Ben's aliens have High or Unknown stamina ratings with little to no justifications for the ones with High so there isn't much I can say, obviously they don't all have trash stamina and can fight for awhile but without context I can't say for how long.

Danny on the other hand was able to fight and chase ghosts for 24 hours straight and held his ghost form and invisibility while spreading it over an entire jet for hours as well as go on a 3 day trip with little food and rest. While the Ecto-Skeleton does drain Danny's energy in order to power itself, it's only an issue when he uses to much to fast. We've even seen the suits energy supply go back up when he's not doing anything.

So I'd say Danny can outlast Ben so long as he doesn't push himself beyond his normal capabilities which is unlikely to happen since he already knows he has to manage the amount of power he uses.

Range/Area of Effect
Took me a minute to look at all of Ben's Aliens range section. Most don't have much in terms of range with the exception of aliens like Big Chill who made it snow in the Null Void (but his range is only Tens of Meters?....) or Feedback who has hundreds of meters with energy attacks and maybe a few others but I'm not sure which and I don't know if there range needs to be updated or not.

In Danny's case, his energy attacks are at least hundreds of meters and should be comparable to other ghosts on his level who's energy can reach across Amity Park (City). While in the Ecto-Skeleton we've seen Danny's energy beams gain a massive boost in area of effect to the point were he could nuke over a hundred of Pariah's Soldiers with a single blast.

While I do believe some of Ben's aliens do have higher range then Danny, majority of his aliens do not so I wouldn't say either have a massive advantage but if Danny does decide to play the range game, most of Ben's aliens will be at a massive disadvantage especially since Danny can and does fly a lot which not all of Ben's aliens can do.

Versatility/Abilities
This is a blatant example of "Quantity vs Quality". I'm not about to spend all my time going over each alien but there are some that I think are notable enough that deserve being mentioned and how they can contribute to Ben in this fight.

Feedback: His energy absorption will allow him to absorb Danny's ranged attacks which will limit Danny to fighting him up close and since Danny's attacks can also hit ghosts like him, Feedback has a way to counter Danny's intangibility.

Ghostfreak and Big Chill: I believe they might the right intangibility needed to interact with Danny while he's also intangible so he's definitely worth mentioning as it gives been the means combating intangibility

Brainstorm and Gray Matter: While their abilities aren't really not worthy, their intelligence is valuable. The Ecto-Skeleton may be ectoplasm infused while Danny is inside it, it's still technology and there isn't a doubt in my mind either of them can't hack or take apart the Ecto-Skeleton which is what makes Danny 6-B in the first place.

Toepick: His fear hax is not based on mental stuff so this alien should be a solid way for Ben to incapacitate Danny via fear.

Wildmutt: Wildmutt isn't much but his high sense of smell would allow him to track Danny while he's invisible.

Echo Echo: Duplication would help if Danny duplicated as well and his sonic scream can pose a danger to Danny for sure.

Clockwork: His time powers are definitely helpful but I don't recall if he needs to turn the dial on his head to activate them, if so than it's gonna be hard to get them off.

Diamondhead and Cannonbolt: These guys can reflect energy attacks so this is a good counter for Danny's ranged attacks.

There are obviously more aliens in Ben's arsenal that I think can provide support but I don't have the time to look at all of them and the one one's listed above are the one's I think are notable enough that they could be mentioned.

Danny has a decent amount of things going for him in terms of quality. His regeneration already allows him to handle anything most of Ben's aliens can due to him, his invisibility and intangibility are also hard counters for many of Ben's aliens as they have no way of seeing or touching him.

His ectoplasmic energy attacks can effect the body on a molecular level and vaporize, plus phasing can also be used to ignore conventional durability against the organic aliens that can't regenerate. Duplication is also something not all of Ben's aliens can combat.

Body Control is also something that can help Danny avoid attacks against those who can harm him while he's intangibile and while his shields may not be able to stand up against the power behind majority of Ben's aliens, it's attack reflection properties can keep him safe against his own attacks if thrown at him.

Supporting things such as blinding some of Ben's aliens with flashes of light or attacking from underground while intangible are also helpful. There is more I'd like to say but I'm tired and I don't want this comment to go on forever so I'll add two notes then move on to who I'm voting for.

Important Note: Me and Greenshifter already had a debate about wether or not Ben resists Danny's type of possession and the answer was yes so I won't be discussing that.

Important Note 2: I did not include Danny's Ice Manipulation or Sonic Scream because he did not possess them when he had the Ecto-Skeleton which was early season 2 in debut.

My Vote
I'm gonna vote for Ben Tennyson...

With speed being equalized, Danny cannot blitz and majority of Ben's aliens are much stronger, some to an even higher degree. AP isn't everything obviously considering some aliens are still weak in terms of physical stats and majority of them lack the means to actually harm Danny do to his physiology and regeneration or even touch him thanks to intangibility.

However Ben is not completely at a lose as despite majority of his aliens lacking the right Non-Physical Interaction, they can tank any physical attack Danny throws at them do to there higher durability. It won't be impossible for them to dodge his energy attacks either as Danny won't apply the massive area of effect unless he's up against a horde of enemies so unless Ben turns into Ditto which is a stupid move, Danny wouldn't likely do it.

Also, Ben still has aliens like Big Chill and Ghostfreak who I'm giving the benefit of the doubt can effect him when he's using his intangibility. While Ben himself isn't vastly smarter than Danny, the likes of Brainstorm and Gray Matter are and should easily be smart enough to mess with the Ecto-Skeleton if they get a chance.

Toepick is an easy win for Ben considering it's not mind based so Danny can't resist it. Echo Echo can duplicate himself to even the odds if Danny does as well and his sonic scream could mess Danny up in regards to his hearing. Clockwork's time powers can also be a problem if he gets them off and as I pointed out above, aliens like Diamondhead and Cannonbolt bolt can reflect energy attacks, not to mention Feedback who can absorb and shot it back.

Another important thing to note is that Ben's watch would turn him into the best alien needed to survive against what Danny is doing so even if Ben chooses Four Arms or something useless it wouldn't remain out for long. I think Danny could phase the watch off of Ben's wrist but that's only if he catches Ben in human form after he sees him utilizing the watch to transform which is not likely given Ben has master control.

Danny's immense stamina could be an issue and he might be able to outlast Ben if he plays it smart but Danny would be surprised by Ben's abilities in some regards and if he feels he needs to he would start wasting more energy which would cost him his stamina. Flight is also an advantage as many of Ben's aliens lack the range to hit Danny from far away but this would also limit Danny's attack choices as well. The fact that Ben also resists Danny's Possession is a problem.

All in all, I feel that despite Danny's abilities Ben also has win conditions that are more likely to happen due to the watch switching him to a good alien if he chooses a crappy one. Danny also isn't gonna go full area of effect right of the bat either.

Again, I know I didn't go over ever alien in Ben's arsenal but I feel that it would be pointless since some are basically useless and won't be any help against someone with Danny's abilities. Pesky Dust's Sleep Manipulation would likely work but Danny's covered by the Ecto-Skeleton which id sealed so the dust wouldn't get in, Gutrot has gas abilities but unless they work on non biological beings I don't think he's useful, Gravattack has Gravity Manipulation but ghosts are resistant to gravity so he isn't gonna due much so you can get the idea of what I'm saying.

Regardless, I'll vote Ben. I think the fight is a good concept and really utilizes the "Quantity vs Quality" in a good way. Now I'm going to bed.

 

[Greenshifter]

Oh wow I was thinking about doing this match today, considering Ben 10 might get upgraded again soon. So thanks for reading my thoughts Mav... Seems like Griffin already did a lot of the work lol.

Speed is Equalized so this doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned.

XLR8 counts as a speed amp so he can near-blitz.

So in the end I'm gonna give intelligence to Ben but only when using aliens like Gray Matter and Brainstorm, other than that I wouldn't say either is far smarter than the other in terms of combat skill in there own regards.

Agreed.

So I'd say Danny can outlast Ben so long as he doesn't push himself beyond his normal capabilities which is unlikely to happen since he already knows he has to manage the amount of power he uses.

Agreed, except when Ben uses Four Arms or Humungousaur, who's species can fight for days. Stamina is also quite a bit outdated. When it comes to pain resistance Ben's stamina is absurb though, dude got shot in the brain for a minute straight with an energy blast (while he was Brainstorm) and was relatively fine afterwards.

if there range needs to be updated or not.

It definitely does.

does fly a lot which not all of Ben's aliens can do.

Considering how fast Ben can switch between aliens with Master Control, this is practically a non-issue, since he can use the flyers to get close and use brawlers to land hits mid-air.

since Danny's attacks can also hit ghosts like him, Feedback has a way to counter Danny's intangibility.

It's unclear if the energy attacks that Feedback absorbs retain their original properties or become just lightning, so it might not work against Danny's intangibility. That said Feedback can succ Danny completely dry by pointing at him if they are relatively close to each other.

I believe they might the right intangibility needed to interact with Danny while he's also intangible so he's definitely worth mentioning as it gives been the means combating intangibility

Yeah probably, in fact you could argue GF's intangibility to be better than Danny's, just a fun fact.

it's still technology and there isn't a doubt in my mind either of them can't hack or take apart the Ecto-Skeleton

Why use the geniuses when Ben has Upgrade to merge with it or Juryrigg and Lodestar to take it apart, the latter having a feat of tearing open a device more complex than the Omnitrix?

Duplication would help if Danny duplicated as well and his sonic scream can pose a danger to Danny for sure.

Ultimate Echo Echo was able to abuse Necrofriggians (Big Chill's species) still needing to hear when intangible to use sound manipulation on them (the waves passed through them but they still had pain in their ears), this is more fiction being fiction but it wouldn't surprise me if the same applies to Danny. Since the only difference between Ult. Echo Echo and Echo Echo's sound manipulation is the potency, the trick would also work for him.

but I don't recall if he needs to turn the dial on his head to activate them

Nope and nope.

His ectoplasmic energy attacks can effect the body on a molecular level and vaporize

The Omnitrix should make Ben resist biological manipulation and depending on the failsafe that activates Ben either gets knocked out for a small bit or switches to a regenner who can survive vaporization.

attacking from underground while intangible are also helpful

Ben himself does that so he'll see it coming.

Me and Greenshifter already had a debate about wether or not Ben resists Danny's type of possession and the answer was yes so I won't be discussing that

Well a thing to note is that Ben without being transformed resisting possession could be up for debate. Since the mindhax in the trillions resistance feat was done while the Nanochip Queen was also controlling well... trillions of nanochips (assuming such a thing counts since Hive Minds aren't my specialty and Ben was half-human, half-nanochip during the feat) it might only be a baseline mindhax resistance since you can argue the Queen was spreading her mind control thin. Then again you could also argue it bypassed the Omnitrix' resistance which is a little short of planetary. This was relevant since high amounts of willpower can make one resist or stave off possession in both Ben 10 and Danny Phantom, such as when Ben staved off Zs'Skayr's possession long enough to transform into him (his plan was probably to then detransform to trap him inside the Omnitrix, but stuff didn't go as planned, although his plan eventually worked). That said it's probably better to just let Ben start out as an alien regardless (meaning the Omnitrix won't even let Danny overshadow him in the first place) to avoid the confusion that is Ben's base speed vs XLR8 being a speed amp (his base speed will probably be upgraded soon regardless).

Important Note 2: I did not include Danny's Ice Manipulation or Sonic Scream because he did not possess them when he had the Ecto-Skeleton which was early season 2 in debut.

Ben never had Master Control in Omniverse so I'm not opposed to Danny being season 3 and still having the Ecto-Skeleton.

considering some aliens are still weak in terms of physical stats

If the Omnitrix co-operates then Ben's glass cannons are actually safer to use than his other aliens, considering they'd be killed by any attack from Danny (assuming Danny goes for the kill) but that wouldn't work due to the failsafe transforming Ben into a different alien who just regens from it. (the alternative being him briefly getting knocked out in base form)

Ben's watch would turn him into the best alien needed to survive against

Due to master control this only comes into play in a life or death scenario. (I just realized you already accounted for what I wrote above in your post lol)

utilizing the watch to transform

Not unlikely, AF Ben with MC hit the watch quite a lot of times to transform weirdly enough. Then again like I said previously, he should probably start in alien form.

Danny could phase the watch off of Ben's wrist

Wouldn't making the watch intangible to do that also result in making the energy feedback someone gets upon trying to remove the watch intangible as well? Meaning Danny would get hit by it like any other guy. Assuming this is still a thing in OV since we haven't really seen it there iirc or at least not as explicit.

but unless they work on non biological beings

They do, Bloxx for instance with acidic gas.

Regardless, I'll vote Ben. I think the fight is a good concept and really utilizes the "Quantity vs Quality" in a good way

Guess I'll vote Ben as well then. Yeah the fight is really cool.

AX, Atomix/Atomic-X, and Way Big are restricted

Oh so Eatle is allowed? Gg then. Jk.

Fighters start 100 meters apart in the Null Void

Nice 5 Years Later reference!

Wow this certainly took awhile so I feel ya Griffin .

 

[Greenshifter]

Since the OP got updated, how good is Danny's freezing and how useful is ghostly wail here?

 

[bigmood41]

uhh no alien X I assume lmao

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

how useful is ghostly wail here?

Ghostly wail is Incap+Power Null, don't know how useful it will be since it has ben years since I watched either series.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

uhh no alien X I assume lmao

Nozir

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Since the OP got updated, how good is Danny's freezing and how useful is ghostly wail here?

Danny is capable of freezing enemies from the inside out on contact with his ice rays or by simply releasing the energy from his body which means if you touch him you become brittle and can be shattered with ease, ghosts can also survive in space with no issue but Danny's ice is colder. He also can apply them to his ectoplasmic shields so if you touch them, you'd freeze.

The Ghostly Wail at it's strongest can harm people up to 100x more powerful than Danny himself, cause internal damage and negates an opponents ability to regenerate so it will heavily damage and incap many of Ben's aliens. It has large Area of Effect going off Dan Phantom's showing (covering a town). Danny can use it about 3 maybe 4 times in quick bursts before getting winded.

uhh no alien X I assume lmao

We all know what would happen. I'd rather not see Danny get smacked around or erased.

 

[Greenshifter]

can also survive in space with no issue but Danny's ice is colder.

Relatively close to a star or just in the middle of nowhere in space?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

in a place far from the earth and the sun

 

[Greenshifter]

Ah frick, all right imma make a heat scaling chain soon-ish then.

 

[Greenshifter]

Heat/Cold scaling chain
OS Heatblast < Alan Albright < Big Chill < Ultimate Big Chill < OV Heatblast

Alan Albright << Swampfire < Ultimate Swampfire

Now for their feats:
Pyronites live on the planet (with star-like properties) Pyros and are capable of going supernova hot, OS Heatblast has done so twice, once as a 4-year old when throwing a temper tantrum and once casually as a 10-year old. The surface temperature of our sun is 6000 °C and the surface temperature of Pyros as well as the passive internal temperature of it's inhabitants should be comparable. The temperature of a supernova is 100 billion Kelvin (same in Celsius), about 6000 times hotter than the core of the sun.

Necrofriggians live both in space, feeding on solar plasma and presumably traveling between star systems, and on Mykdl'dy, which has a cold side of -320°F (about -196°C) and a hot side of 3,600°F (about 1,982°C). Necrofriggians' body temperature should at least be comparable to the cold side of the planet and probably even the vacuum of space. Big Chill can freeze Vulkanus (from the inside out) who was unaffected by being in space for a brief moment, he was however "near" a star and standing on top of a spaceship. Big Chill also froze a furnace used to power both an interdimensional drill and Doctor Animo to the extent he started stomping Humungousaur, with the resulting effect making it snow in the Null Void (although I don't think it snowed in the entire Null Void so the calc on his page may be overexaggerated). Big Chill's ice beam also clashed with Exo-Skull's energy beam, which resulted in him and Subdora getting frozen.

Danny's ice can apparently bypass a ghost's resistance, who can survive in the middle of nowhere in space, which would give them a resistance to temperatures of 2.73 Kelvin (-270.42 Celsius, -454.75 Fahrenheit).

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Then is ice powers really shouldn't do much of anything against those aliens.

All this space talk reminds me that I need to make another speed revision for Danny Phantom and try my hand at likely Massively FTL+ rating but I don't know if it's gonna get accepted, but that's not gonna stop me.

 

[Greenshifter]

Danny Phantom and try my hand at likely Massively FTL+

Got your back, I already wondered a bit back why he wasn't MFTL+. Heck now that people got rid of his energy beams being realistic light, you have a bigger chance of getting it through (judging by the recent Ben 10 speed revision), as funny as that may be.

 

[Greenshifter]

Ghostly Wail is definitely a problem, only Ghostfreak or Goop (if I'd argue High regen) can come back from that (being non-combat applicable for Ghostfreak, scaling from Zs'skayr, however the Omnitrix can probably help Ghostfreak). Omnitrix will probably be able to regen Ben as well (I mean he can turn him back to human form from NRG). Thing being that it might not matter since Ghostly Wail probably has that sweet spot of being able to harm Ben's aliens to KO them without killing them thus no failsafe and thus the chance that he's Goop or Ghostfreak at the time he gets affected is small. Is Ghostly Wail still purely dura neg for now, since I know you wanted to give it a High 6-B rating? In each case assuming Ben can't overpower it with say Echo Echo, his luck is that Danny can't and doesn't use it that much iirc.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Ghostly Wail is definitely a problem, only Ghostfreak or Goop (if I'd argue High regen) can come back from that. Omnitrix will probably be able to regen Ben as well (I mean he can turn him back to human form from NRG). Thing being that it might not matter since Ghostly Wail probably has that sweet spot of being able to harm Ben's aliens without killing them thus no failsafe. Is Ghostly Wail still purely dura neg for now, since I know you wanted to give it a High 6-B rating? In each case assuming Ben can't overpower it with say Echo Echo, his luck is that Danny can't and doesn't use it that much iirc.

The Ghostly Wail is both treated as a force but also Durability Negation as well due to vibrations. This would explain why it can send objects flying but also shock Amity Park and the glass shattered on all the windows and cars with sending anyone flying. It is why I still gave it a "higher" rating because it still can have power behind it but since we did the revisions and got the 100x multiplier accepted, I'm trying to upgrade Dan's Ghostly Wail the same way Danny's is now on his page.

But yeah, Danny doesn't use Ghostly Wail that much. Only if he's up against an opponent far stronger than himself or up against a large number of enemies.

 

[Greenshifter]

Ah right and due to Ecto-Skeleton being used, it would stack the same way as it would stack with Dan and thus also be a High 6-B attack?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Ah right and due to Ecto-Skeleton being used, it would stack the same way as it would stack with Dan and thus also be a High 6-B attack?

Yes, Pariah Dark with the Crown and Ring is around baseline 6-B at bare minimum for being twice as strong as Vortex who is Low 6-B+.

Danny's power was multiplied by 100 by the Ecto-Skeleton which allowed him to somewhat hold his own against Pariah Dark with the Crown and Ring. Since we don't know if Pariah was going all out we decided to rate Danny "At least Low 6-B, likely 6-B" and if you divide Vortex's calc by 100 you get 38 Gigatons so we rate the him at At least 6-C, likely higher (6-C+ due to Pariah being twice as strong as Vortex).

Dan Phantom scales to 6-B because they needed an anti-ghost shield more powerful than the one Ecto-Skeleton Danny couldn't bypass to keep him out, he is also far superior to Vlad who's capable of harming Vortex, and the Observants who can make a device capable of harming Vortex believe he's unstoppable. Danny's Ghostly Wail can harm Dan who's at least 100x more powerful than him via scaling.

So yeah, Ecto-Skeleton Danny Phantom is 100x Danny's base, the Ghostly Wail can harm people 100x more powerful than base Danny. So if Ecto-Skeleton Danny used the Ghostly Wail it would be 100x more powerful than his normal power which would make it a High 6-B attack since Baseline 6-B is 7 Teratons, multiple that by 100 and you get 700 Teratons which in the High 6-B upper border range.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Speaking of goop, could danny turn off the antigravity ship that holds its shape?

 

[Greenshifter]

Yes by shooting at it or pressing a button, Ben then proceeds to transform into a different alien with a thought... also the Omnitrix symbol is on the Anti-gravity projector in Omniverse so Danny using Ben’s trick he used against Vilgax isn’t gonna happen here.

 

[Greenshifter]

I think it’s likely that either Echo Echo or an absorber (who will just absorb the attack) will be at the receiving end of Ghostly Wail if Danny uses it, since he uses it when facing a lot of enemies (Echo Echo’s duplication) or Ben might try to counter Danny’s sound manipulation with his own or vice-versa. The former has never been affected by sound manipulation (so no dura neg) and might actually die from it (AP-wise) if you scale GW above Ult. Kevin, the Omnitrix won’t let that happen and thus either Ben transforms into a regenner who can likely take the GW (such as Goop if you argue High regen) or the Omnitrix itself High regens Ben and he gets very briefly KO’d (none of that is on the page yet though).

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Bump. Forgot about this, what's the vote count.

 

[CBslayeR]

Ben FRA

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Ben FRA.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Ben FRA

 

[Oleggator]

Ben FRA

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Ben currently has 7 votes (Me, CBslayeR, Gabs22 Gamer, TyranoDoom30, Oleggator, Mister6ame6, JED)

Grace Period.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Ben FRA

 

[JED]

Ben FRA

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Monkey FRA

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Alright, grace period is over. I'll add this to the profiles. Edit: Added, I'll close this.

Danny got 3 losses and 1 win because of me... I need to change that.