• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Ben 10 Classic Series Revision Thread Part 2

Status
Not open for further replies.
4 and 5 should probably be reversed since big AP difference = no cross-scaling. Unless you want to first do the scaling chains before my tier 6/tier 5 revisions.

3. I got 40-50 ability/potency of ability suggestions more or less. Should probably do that in a different thread.

1. There’s a different calc for Vilgax that gives 7-B results. Chimerian Hammer destruction only scales to True Form Vilgax and he might not have taken it point-blank so we probably need a recalc to account for surface area.
 
Alright since Way Big was able to run at superhuman speed and sent garbage monster to the sun by creating a cyclone. He should have superhuman speed on his profile, but the reason it's not is because DJW said it was a glitch
but the problem is DJW has a history of making contradicting posts such examples are 1 and 2
due to his inconsistent replies DJW is not too much of a credible source (And if you wanna accept anything from him it's important to have a detailed discussion before that, that's how I see it)
But the point is Ben 10 writer matt wayne was asked about this situation in the past as you can see and wayne is unsure of the glitch link
(After all of this time passes by and DJW was asked again about way big's speed and he seems to have a some what changed opinion of why way big is fast link
My biggest gripe is that if a character "ON SCREEN" has shown Superhuman speed and something which even Ultimate way big resembled here as his way of reflecting an attack then why should we NOT consider this "Superhuman speed"
So I suggest looking at the fact that way big has performed this ability, he should indeed get superhuman speed on his profile.
What's shown on screen >>>> Different opinions of writers.
 
DD first off, wow that’s a long and detailed message for your standards, good job. Second off we have an order of revisions now, so nobody can bring up revisions out of nowhere anymore. Thirdly, if you do have revisions then either write them down somewhere for yourself or send them on my (or probably Firestorm’s) wall.
 
DD first off, wow that’s a long and detailed message for your standards, good job. Second off we have an order of revisions now, so nobody can bring up revisions out of nowhere anymore. Thirdly, if you do have revisions then either write them down somewhere for yourself or send them on my (or probably Firestorm’s) wall.
I'm just trying to make a decent post/message....I didn't know at first. I just thought of it and decided to bring it up, sorry Firestorm if my message caused any trouble sir, I wasn't aware that I shouldn't bring it up, my apologies.
 
I thought the consensus for Heroes United was that Rex scales to Ben but not the other way around since it was a Generator Rex episode.

Although, if someone can find the tie in comic, maybe we could cross-scale.
 
I thought the consensus for Heroes United was that Rex scales to Ben but not the other way around since it was a Generator Rex episode.

Although, if someone can find the tie in comic, maybe we could cross-scale.
It’s canon to Ben 10. I ain’t gonna bring up the scan why tho since that’d be deviating from our evaluation order.
 
Vilgax AP Evaluation

That nuke is not high 7-C. Judging by the nuke itself, it’s a Titan Nuke. Specifically the Titan 2. They stopped using Titan 1 nukes and Vilgax got hit by one in the 1970, so logically it’s a Titan 2, which is 9 megatons. Keep in mind there were six other nukes on his shit plus the one he got hit by is 7 all together. 9x7=63 divide that by 2 because of the the surface area, and you get 31.5 megatons for the weakest version of Vilgax.
 
Can you get that evaluated?

You also mentioned before that true form Vilgax would be too far away from the tier 6 explosion to scale him to the full thing, perhaps you can get someone to calc that as well if it ain’t straight up unquantifiable? Keep in mind that underwater explosions tend to be stronger than in-air explosions although it might not matter here. Also I remember a statement that Vilgax’s ship was gonna wipe out x amount of miles, perhaps we can use that as well?
 
Last edited:
As most of you likely know, I find scaling from crossovers to usually be extremely unreliable.

I trust Firestorm808's sense of judgement and professionalism in any case.
 
As most of you likely know, I find scaling from crossovers to usually be extremely unreliable.
We’ll see how close the 2 end up in AP. But when it comes to Lifting Strenght which is a minor statistic (and considering canonicity for both is in order) I think it won’t exactly cause any problems if we do cross-scale Lifting Strength.
 
We’ll see how close the 2 end up in AP. But when it comes to Lifting Strenght which is a minor statistic (and considering canonicity for both is in order) I think it won’t exactly cause any problems if we do cross-scale Lifting Strength.
Do our current Crossovers rules allow that?
 
It’s a bit of a weird case since I’d only be scaling a single stat and not everything else since the power gap would be too great if my revisions go as planned. But said stat is backed up by an author statement tho and considering it stems from a canon double-sided crossover made by the same authors it should still be okay by our crossover rules. (The stat gap between the 2 in LS is also quite small).
 
I am still very uneasy with doing so, and would much prefer if we avoid it, as it would still set a bad precedent.
 
I doubt other verses come close to this. Ben 10 is 1) notorious for it’s broad canonicity (The Secret Saturdays straight up live in the same universe as Ben 10 for instance and even certain video games are considered canon since they are referenced in canon) and 2) has an actual crossover to back it up contrary to One Punch Man and Mob Psycho 100 for instance.
 
Ben stated that he didn’t see Vilgax get out (of the ship I assume) so he took it pretty much point-blank. So I’m fine with scaling the calculated explosion to an amped form of Vilgax.

In fact Ben also stated that Vilgax survived worse, so perhaps this scales to other versions of Vilgax as well.
 
Ben stated that he didn’t see Vilgax get out (of the ship I assume) so he took it pretty much point-blank. So I’m fine with scaling the calculated explosion to an amped form of Vilgax.

In fact Ben also stated that Vilgax survived worse, so perhaps this scales to other versions of Vilgax as well.
What do u mean by other versions?
 
Crossovers are as good as always notorious for rescaling the involved verses to fit with each other to an extreme degree. As such, I remain very opposed to using them to scale to the separate involved verses in general, and will make no exceptions here. My apologies.
 
rescaling the involved verses to fit with each other to an extreme degree.
The weaker verse has a higher LS than the stronger verse. So who’s getting rescaled then exactly? Also the 2 verses were originally planned to take place in the same universe so they were always supposed to scale to each other one way or another so you could very well argue the “rescaling” happened before the first episode of Gen Rex aired. Also Archie Sonic and Archie Mega Man and Fairly Odd Parents and Jimmy Neutron come to mind for already accepted cross-scaling of this type.
 
Last edited:
If we assume that Vilgax’s old ship also has a fusion drive then Pre-OS Vilgax also tanked the tier 6 explosion (there’s also the shockwave of blowing up Petropia not affecting the ship as a feat) but wasn’t as damaged due to being further away from the fusion drive I assume. Now we only need to find where exactly the fusion drive is located in the ship (should be easy based on the Malgax episode) and use Inverse Square Law. Granted the explosion should have probably been bigger if it were tier 6 and it’s really weird that a nuke would be able to penetrate Vilgax’s ship, but it looks like the main door was open.
 
Last edited:
So what exactly needs to be done here?.

I've got some free time but could someone explain the current thing bring discussed? I see several things in the OP but I'd like to stay with what's being discussed at the moment.
 
@Antvasima

Thank you for your input regarding cross-over scaling. I assume that the only cross-over scaling allowed are for series that are accepted as a verse in and of itself like the Arrowverse and MCU.

Moving on, I'll look into the Vilgax feats again.
 
So what exactly needs to be done here?.

I've got some free time but could someone explain the current thing bring discussed? I see several things in the OP but I'd like to stay with what's being discussed at the moment.
We have an evaluation order. We’re currently at Nr. 1 which is the Vilgax feats.
 
We have an evaluation order. We’re currently at Nr. 1 which is the Vilgax feats.
Well I'm not a calc member and Zamasu Chan commented something about the High 7-C feat being higher.

Is there anything wrong with the second calc?. The calc members seem to have accepted the Low 6-B version.
 
Thank you for your input regarding cross-over scaling. I assume that the only cross-over scaling allowed are for series that are accepted as a verse in and of itself like the Arrowverse and MCU.
No problem. Pretty much, yes.
 
Low 6-B doesn’t scale to anyone except true form Vilgax. TF Vilgax overpowered Ult Swampfire and almost ate him, forcing Ben to turn into Jetray and escape. Not to mention Vilgax would’ve died if he wasn’t found.
 
You could argue Jetray hurt Vilgax from the inside to escape (since he seemed to already have been eaten while transforming). But dura neg via attacking internal organs and stuff is still a thing so fair. Guess we can give Vilgax a true form key and apply low 6-B to said key then?

I already asked for an evaluation for the 7-B calc by Zamasu (I made a blog). One could argue that Pre-OS Vilgax also took the same explosion True form Vilgax took (if both ships contain a fusion drive) but was further away from the center. This is backed up by Ben saying Vilgax has survived worse right after true form Vilgax got nuked.
 
Low 6-B doesn’t scale to anyone except true form Vilgax. TF Vilgax overpowered Ult Swampfire and almost ate him, forcing Ben to turn into Jetray and escape. Not to mention Vilgax would’ve died if he wasn’t found.
Well I don't have any issues with using it then.
 
You could argue Jetray hurt Vilgax from the inside to escape (since he seemed to already have been eaten while transforming). But dura neg via attacking internal organs and stuff is still a thing so fair. Guess we can give Vilgax a true form key and apply low 6-B to said key then?
No you can’t because that’s headcanon.
I already asked for an evaluation for the 7-B calc by Zamasu (I made a blog). One could argue that Pre-OS Vilgax also took the same explosion True form Vilgax took (if both ships contain a fusion drive) but was further away from the center. This is backed up by Ben saying Vilgax has survived worse right after true form Vilgax got nuked.
This doesn’t make sense. The fusion drive almost killed true from Vilgax. TF Vilgax > post 10 worlds Vilgax >>> Cyborg Vilgax >>> base Vilgax = survived the nukes. The old Chimarian Chamber having a fusion drive is also headcanon.
 
No you can’t because that’s headcanon
How did he escape?

Inverse square law is a bitch. Vilgax could have taken like 1/100 th the energy that true form Vilgax took. Someone would need to calc how far away he was from the fusion drive though. We can judge by the one Vilgax has in OV whether the old one had one since they had the same design. Assuming we don’t have a direct statement confirming he has a fusion drive in his old ship.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top