Ben 10 Aggregor and Tier 8-B Scaling Fix.

[DemonicDude]

Flawed Scaling Chain:
User Goldenscorpions has brough up the following issue here with Ben 10 classic characters who are tier 8-B this includes Aggregor due to which he was removed from the tournament of matches so we need to fix them, I will be posting Golden's message here.

There is this character from Ben 10, whose 8-B rating is only justified by saying he amounts to the sum of the AP of the aliens he absorbed. However, I seem to recall that, without direct statements, scans, proof, or showcase, additive AP cannot be assumed, not by absorbing others. Furthermore, the 2nd justification for his 8-B rating is him scaling to a different alien (with a video link), yet that video shows that other alien in his High 8-C key, not his 8-B.
Would that mean the 8-B is currently not usable due to insufficient proof and back-up?

I was told the scaling works by stacking all the powers of aliens he has absorbed. (here), Which lead me to think we need to add the Attack Potency like this. This scaling was accepted here.
Attack Potency:
The Three aliens he absorbed are 4.16 Tons and Armodrillo & NRG are 7.09 Tons.
4.16 x 2 = 12.48 + 7.09 (NRG) + 7.09 (Armodrillo) + 4.16 (Aggregor himself) = 30.82 Tons Total.

However this does not seem to be the case at all as GoldenScorptions mentioned above so I wanted this issue to be fixed.

1. All these calcs that are on Ben 10 pages such as 1, 2 are not even mentioned on the main verse page.

 

[Antvasima]

@Zamasu_Chan @Firestorm808 @Liger686 @Newendigo @Eficiente @VersusJunkie54 @EmperorRorepme @KingEzran @SinsofMan @Greenshifter

What do you think about this?

 

[Greenshifter]

Aggregor made a machine specifically to get all of their power instead of just 1/10th which would be his natural absorption limit. Hence there is no problem with the scaling.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So should we close this thread then?

 

[DemonicDude]

Aggregor made a machine specifically to get all of their power instead of just 1/10th which would be his natural absorption limit. Hence there is no problem with the scaling.

This would be written as a note in his profile so causal viewers can easily understand his scaling.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems uncontrovetsial to add then, but I would prefer a bit further input here first from other members that I called for.

 

[Newendigo]

Aggregor made a machine specifically to get all of their power instead of just 1/10th which would be his natural absorption limit. Hence there is no problem with the scaling.

I don't know if this is enough to just say their physical strength stack up aswell.

Mind giving up a video stating this btw?

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the evaluation.

 

[DemonicDude]

I don't know if this is enough to just say their physical strength stack up aswell.

Mind giving up a video stating this btw?

Yes here is the video

 

[Newendigo]

It just says that he would get all their powers, their physical strength is an independent trait from that.

Is like Superman's pure superhuman strength, is not a power but just something inherent from his race.

 

[Greenshifter]

It just says that he would get all their powers, their physical strength is an independent trait from that.

Is like Superman's pure superhuman strength, is not a power but just something inherent from his race.

Tbf all their energy got absorbed by him (as they later restore them just by putting the energy back from where it came and they just re-appear in the room), so his AP would scale, I guess striking strength could be contested. Although when Kevin absorbs Four Arms he also gets his striking so.

 

[Greenshifter]

@DemonicDude Maybe post the scan where Aggregor would only get 1/10th of their power without the machine too.

 

[DemonicDude]

@DemonicDude Maybe post the scan where Aggregor would only get 1/10th of their power without the machine too.

Right now I do not know of any scene where aggregor says he absorbed 1/10th,

Kevin and Aggregor are both Osmosian species and when Kevin absorbed Ben's alien powers Ben confrimed he got only 1/10th.

 

[DemonicDude]

Here is another updated scan regarding his power absorption of those 5 aliens.

 

[Antvasima]

@Zamasu_Chan @Firestorm808 @Liger686 @Eficiente @VersusJunkie54 @EmperorRorepme @KingEzran @SinsofMan

Your help would still be appreciated here.

 

[Firestorm808]

OP seems okay.

 

[Greenshifter]

Seems okay.

What does, the OP or everything after that?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Right now I do not know of any scene where aggregor says he absorbed 1/10th,

Kevin and Aggregor are both Osmosian species and when Kevin absorbed Ben's alien powers Ben confrimed he got only 1/10th.

There's another statement in UA: Escape from Aggregor. However I want to point out that these statements are not consistent.

Kevin, after absorbing Heatblast's powers, has no problem dealing damage to Ben Heatblast himself.
Kevin, Four Arms absorbed, fought equally with Ben as four arms.
Kevin was able to utilize the full strength and abilities of Heatblast, Upgrade, Diamondhead, and Stinkfly.
Kevin 11 gets the upper hand on Four Arms. If he was 1/10 the strength of all 10 aliens then his combined might wouldn't even match Four Arms'.
Kevin 11 managed to blitz Technorg and take off his arm.
Aggregor easily defeats Galapagus after absorbing a fellow Geochelone Aerio.

10x is a big strength difference and there’s not a single instance where the gap is shown to be that big.

 

[Greenshifter]

There's another statement in UA: Escape from Aggregor. However I want to point out that these statements are not consistent.

Kevin, after absorbing Heatblast's powers, has no problem dealing damage to Ben Heatblast himself.
Kevin, Four Arms absorbed, fought equally with Ben as four arms.
Kevin was able to utilize the full strength and abilities of Heatblast, Upgrade, Diamondhead, and Stinkfly.
Kevin 11 gets the upper hand on Four Arms. If he was 1/10 the strength of all 10 aliens then his combined might wouldn't even match Four Arms'.
Kevin 11 managed to blitz Technorg and take off his arm.
Aggregor easily defeats Galapagus after absorbing a fellow Geochelone Aerio.

10x is a big strength difference and there’s not a single instance where the gap is shown to be that big.

Yeah OS stuff is weird (I personally see it as only applying to his fusion sort of, like he became the fusion without having to drain the Omnitrix any more so) when it comes to that. Base Aggregor is enough to take out Galapagus though.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Yeah OS stuff is weird (I personally see it as only applying to his fusion sort of, like he became the fusion without having to drain the Omnitrix any more so) when it comes to that.

Ok.

Base Aggregor is enough to take out Galapagus though.

It still doesn’t make sense considering Aggregor pretty much one shot Galapagus with an ability that should be 10x weaker than usual.
10x is not consistent unless it applies to something else that isn’t strength.

OP seems okay.

Nothing changed tho? Adding AP via absorption is something against the rules which is why this thread was made in the first place.

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think about Zamasu's comment above, @Firestorm808 ?

 

[Greenshifter]

It still doesn’t make sense considering Aggregor pretty much one shot Galapagus with an ability that should be 10x weaker than usual.
10x is not consistent unless it applies to something else that isn’t strength.

Nothing changed tho? Adding AP via absorption is something against the rules which is why this thread was made in the first place

Are you arguing against stacking AP because their absorption is inconsistent in the sense that he gets too much power from the people he absorbs? If anything Ultimate Kevin should be way higher then rather than Ultimate Aggregor getting downgraded.

Like osmosions absorb all of one’s DNA, mana, abilities and power as stated on their pages. So it’s way superior to your ordinary absorption. Also where even is the supposed rule Scorpion mentions?

 

[Firestorm808]

What do you think about Zamasu's comment above, @Firestorm808 ?

I looked at the pages below, and I couldn't find our rules regarding the matter. Is it stated on a different page?

Absorption

Absorption is the ability to absorb something - whether it is energy or other living beings - and use it for one's self. This ability has many potential applications and forms; Biological Absorption: The user can absorb other living beings into their own body, often breaking them down into...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Power Absorption

Power Absorption is a combination of Power Mimicry and Nullification, not just copying the abilities of others, but stealing them for one's own use, stripping the original bearer of their powers while gaining access to more. This may not be accomplished through literal absorption, but it can be...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Are you arguing against stacking AP because their absorption is inconsistent in the sense that he gets too much power from the people he absorbs? If anything Ultimate Kevin should be way higher then rather than Ultimate Aggregor getting downgraded.

Whether I’m for or against it doesn’t matter. The point of this thread was to find evidence that it’s 8-B.

This was the reason it was brought up in the first place.

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here exactly?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

So what should we do here exactly?

Tbh, I have no idea.

 

[Newendigo]

Right now I do not know of any scene where aggregor says he absorbed 1/10th,

Kevin and Aggregor are both Osmosian species and when Kevin absorbed Ben's alien powers Ben confrimed he got only 1/10th.

I really wouldn't take the 1/10 statement too seriously to be considered a real multiplier, as Zamasu already stated, Kevin can keep up with Ben even with mere copies of his powers.

Ben happens to be better due to skill and ingeniuty, not direct strength. Is shown in that very episode that while non-transformed he is able to come up with an strategy to beat the top champion of that space coliseum by combining all the traits of Kevin's transformation.

 

[Antvasima]

Tbh, I have no idea.

Does anybody else here know? Is there any point to this thread remaining open?

 

[Firestorm808]

I looked at the pages below, and I couldn't find our rules regarding the matter. Is it stated on a different page?

Absorption

Absorption is the ability to absorb something - whether it is energy or other living beings - and use it for one's self. This ability has many potential applications and forms; Biological Absorption: The user can absorb other living beings into their own body, often breaking them down into...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Power Absorption

Power Absorption is a combination of Power Mimicry and Nullification, not just copying the abilities of others, but stealing them for one's own use, stripping the original bearer of their powers while gaining access to more. This may not be accomplished through literal absorption, but it can be...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Greenshifter]

I mean Aggregor still says he's gonna get all their power and I don't see a rule stating that additive increases aren't allowed so a note on the page should be good enough Ig?

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here exactly?

 

[Firestorm808]

Unless someone can point out the existing rules for this matter, I don't see the issue of the additive increases.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Idk ask more staff members. Because there was a huge farce in a vs thread about Aggregor being 8-B. So if he remains 8-B, especially when a CRT was made without displaying new evidence, then we’ll wind up here again.

Sane thing happened to Alex Mercer on him getting downgraded.

 

[Antvasima]

Idk ask more staff members. Because there was a huge farce in a vs thread about Aggregor being 8-B. So if he remains 8-B, especially when a CRT was made without displaying new evidence, then we’ll wind up here again.

Sane thing happened to Alex Mercer on him getting downgraded.

@Armorchompy @UchihaSlayer96 @Maverick_Zero_X @LordTracer

Would any of you be willing to help out here please?

 

[DemonicDude]

Thread still needs conclusion is AP stacking all 5 aliens allowed ? if yes then I will make a note and mention this on his profile if not we need to solve this

 

[Firestorm808]

@Antvasima If there are no currently existing rules regarding the matter, I ask that a separate thread be made to make and add them to their respective pages.

 

[DemonicDude]

Important:

1. Can we please go to main Ben 10 page and write a note
   Note: 8-C aliens like Eye Guy attack potency is __ value and High 8-C aliens like Humungousaur are __ value.
   most verses like Fairy Tail has them mentioned on their page like this.
2. Can someone also make proper tabblers like these on main Verse page for Ben 10 too.

 

[Greenshifter]

@Antvasima If there are no currently existing rules regarding the matter, I ask that a separate thread be made to make and add them to their respective pages.

I don’t know why we need rules for this tbh. At best this is just always valid and at worst it’s case-by-case.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@Antvasima If there are no currently existing rules regarding the matter, I ask that a separate thread be made to make and add them to their respective pages.

Yes. I few years back one of my favorites got downgraded for the same reason. Making a thread for clarification is a good idea.