Arjuna Alter vs Oma-Zio

[Everything12]

Do you have evidence that the Type 8 can return someone from 4D Conceptual Erasure? Or any type of Erasure that isn't Causality based? and Souga has never used that Plot Manip, it's OOC for him to use it, while 4D Conceptual Erasure I very in character for Altjuna to start with.

 

[MagiSinbad]

Cant Oma-Zio just access to Gaia's infinite knowledges with Xtreme's power to instant analyzes Ajurna and uses his Plot Manipulation right away ? Seeing Woz was able to access the "Real World" memories, i suppose Oma can do the same with Nasuverse's Gaia ?

 

[Everything12]

Also OOC, in verse what is Oma Zi-O in character moves, what did he do with his power in the Movie when he faced his alternate self with them?

 

[Akreious]

Do you have evidence that the Type 8 can return someone from 4D Conceptual Erasure? Or any type of Erasure that isn't Causality based? and Souga has never used that Plot Manip, it's OOC for him to use it, while 4D Conceptual Erasure I very in character for Altjuna to start with.

This is Main Timeline Sougo. His only fight involved him 1-shotting his enemy and his only other feat is Retconning the entire series. You argument of "It's OOC for him to do it" makes ZERO sense because his "IC" basically involves him walking over his enemy and making it so his own history never happened.

And also, no you're performing a huge NLF. YOU prove that this "4D Conceptual Erasure" can somehow affect far more than what it's ever shown. Unless this Conceptual Erasure can somehow erase the memories of everyone who's ever known Sougo ever, Sougo can and will come back. Again, as noted, it likely wouldn't be the ABSOLUTE SAME Sougo- but it will think, talk and walk just like Sougo- AKA for this battle, Sougo would not be put down.

Also OOC, in verse what is Oma Zi-O in character moves, what did he do with his power in the Movie when he faced his alternate self with them?

I have 0 idea what you're talking about here. Future Oma Zi-O was always inherently constrained because he didn't want to kill his past self while modern Oma Zi-O never fought future Oma Zi-O.

If you're talking about Another Oma Zi-O, that isn't canon.

 

[Faiz_Atiq_Jalaluddin]

Cant Oma-Zio just access to Gaia's infinite knowledges with Xtreme's power to instant analyzes Ajurna and uses his Plot Manipulation right away ? Seeing Woz was able to access the "Real World" memories, i suppose Oma can do the same with Nasuverse's Gaia ?

I actually forget about kamen rider W ability to connect to gaia. Well we figure out what he can do with gaia.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Wait you want Sougo to Plot Manip on Arjunalter?

That's a massive NLF for something on a non-2-A Scale (Be it Low 2-C or 2-B) to work on a 2-A guy.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Said 2-A guy is merely a 3D being with 2-A AP, especially since he has No resistance to plot manip.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Even when Plot Manipulation is explicitly described as a subpower of Reality Warping?

Cool. A 3D being with resistance to High 1-A Reality Warping can get baseline plothaxxed.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Yes.

Does Arjuna has High 1-A resistance?

No, then he ain't resist it.

 

[Everything12]

He has 2-A Reality Warping resistance though.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Apparently if it's not explicit Plot hax, even if it's High 1-A, it doesn't matter.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Except Plot manip is more like a stronger version of Fate manip than an actual RW.

And what makes it 2-A again?

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Apparently if it's not explicit Plot hax, even if it's High 1-A, it doesn't matter.

Dude, I'm talking about Arjuna, which is just a 3-D guy with no resistance to plot hax. If Zio plothax is 4-D, the it will affects Juna just fine.

High 1-A being or a lower with High 1-A resistance is obviously wouldn't be affected. Like, I shouldn't even elaborate it due how obvious it is.

 

[MagiSinbad]

@Akreious The stage play is totally canon, well, canon to Over Quartzer continuaty since it's the direct sequel. But hell, Another Oma-Zio is still vastly inferior to Sougos, and given how both of our Maou has Xtreme's analysis ability, there's no reason for both of them to uses their heavy powers on him.

@Faiz It's a very useful ability. And it's not totally out of character for Sougo to uses it, given how it will give him the advantage over the enemy and give him the best method to deal without killing them.

@Diinou well, i kinda expected for everyone to consider it's Massive NLF, because in it's nature, it is.

Like in a story, you can stop time of whole multiverse, the plot still move on. You can destroys the whole multiverse along with all causalities and concepts that made up of it, but the plot still move on. You can destroys all dimensions, but the plot of the story still move on.

In a story, the reality doesnt emcompass the plot, it's the other way around. And everything happen in a story because the plot say it does

This is NLF as hell and i know it is. But then again, i can only think of the verses that define how much the plots encompass their verses can define how limited the Plot Manipulation is.

That's just my opinion, not really an auguament :v

 

[Everything12]

The 2-A resistance comes from the Authorities of gods, the powers of the gods which not only allow them to do their 2-A feats but also resist the 2-A powers of other lower gods, Altjuna has the combined Authorities of the 300 Million Gods of the Indian Pantheon he absorbed.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Our diff is not that.

We're different in thinking Reality Warping resist = Resist most of its subpowers too

You think it doesn't. And I think it does.

 

[Faiz_Atiq_Jalaluddin]

Do you have evidence that the Type 8 can return someone from 4D Conceptual Erasure? Or any type of Erasure that isn't Causality based? and Souga has never used that Plot Manip, it's OOC for him to use it, while 4D Conceptual Erasure I very in character for Altjuna to start with.

What do you mean ooc him to use plot manip, we saw him become oma zio in the final of the series in fit of rage , of course he don't use plot manip when the only in his mind at that time is to beat the the living crap of swartz.

Also what do you mean be 4D , because as far i remember when people say about 3D the talk about space,mass and other stuff but when they talk about 4D they talk about time I'm not angry i just want to know what do you mean by 4D

Also here how they type 8 work: In the movie hesei generation forever if i remember corectly . The main villain of that movie name tid go to the "real world" that like our world that look at kamen rider as only as a kid show. His plan is destroyed the kamen rider franchise to effectively erased them from existence . So after some time traveling tid manage to erased the kamen rider by making the entire franchise never existed efectively erased they existence by making the concept of hesei kamen rider never exist. But of course that never stay long because there happen to be a boy who are a singurality point that really like kamen rider and still remember about them so the rider end up coming back into existence even though they never exist in the first place and they end up defeating tid in the end.

Bottom line is that they can still come back even though they never even exist in the first place if someone still remember them.

 

[MagiSinbad]

Before we continues, i want to ask : If you guy say Plot manipulation is not gonna work, then what exactly is Oma-Zio's wincon ? His opponent is a 2-A being with alot of abilities better than him, so i participate this thread with the idea that Plot Manipulation would be his wincon. If you guy think PM doesnt work then what can Oma-Zio do to win ?

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

The 2-A resistance comes from the Authorities of gods, the powers of the gods which not only allow them to do their 2-A feats but also resist the 2-A powers of other lower gods, Altjuna has the combined Authorities of the 300 Million Gods of the Indian Pantheon he absorbed.

None of the Nasuverse Authority are remotely close to 2-A on scale.

People like Kama and Saver are merely described as "God of Universal scale" on their profile, which is nowhere near 2-A (Even their range are nowhere near 2-A). And Arjuna and the majority of Nasuverse big guns are scale to them (which from I heard, scaling FGO to CCC was pretty controversial).

Nasuverse 2-A came from the Moon Cell stuffs.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

No.

In fact all Authorities work on a 2-A scale.

BB's Skill "Ten Crowns", which allows her to seize control of the Far Side of the Moon, was stated to be a "Nation-building Authority" by Tamamo, and stated in her FGO Profile to be on par to a God's Authority.

It's also stated in the Mats that "The one who swallowed up the Mooncell" (BB) has reached a level called "Authority"

 

[Faiz_Atiq_Jalaluddin]

wait Moon Cell , didn't thing happend in CCC are in virtual world . So ALL this time we comparing real world and virtual world . This two world are different with the virtual world state of reality can be change with a simple programing. Also in CCC they never say they affected the real world , only the Moon cell.

 

[Faiz_Atiq_Jalaluddin]

No.
In fact all Authorities work on a 2-A scale.

BB's Skill "Ten Crowns", which allows her to seize control of the Far Side of the Moon, was stated to be a "Nation-building Authority" by Tamamo, and stated in her FGO Profile to be on par to a God's Authority.

It's also stated in the Mats that "The one who swallowed up the Mooncell" (BB) has reached a level called "Authority"

Gods have Authority (µ¿®Þâ¢, Kennō?) over the world, allowing for world construction, event shifting, time-flow manipulation, kingdom-building, and other such powers of that level.

here the main problem they only have authority over the world in other word on gaia/earth and not the whole universe the one that got universal scale are Bodhisattva and even they only govern solar system

Bodhisattva[1]
Bodhisattva are gods of cosmic proportions, easily capable of governing the solar system and are not owned by Gaia.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Again with the "SE.RA.PH. isn't real" thing?

It isn't just a Virtual World. It's another world composed of Spirit Particles (Spiritron) And works more like a whole new reality. Wizards put digitize/conceptualize their souls to enter there, as it's composed of Spiritrons, a way for soul to manifeast.

In fact, Nasuverse peeps got to 2-A because of this. Because the Mooncell contains an infinite simulation of futures. And it was agreed those futures are in fact real tinelines.


Regarding your second reply, notice "Nation-building Authority"? Yeah. It's name says Nation-building. Yet it was used to take over a multiversal structure, and takes a power comparable to a multiversal entity to counter. Also, being called a god on a universal scale doesn't limit you at universal.