Are we allowed to make profiles for crossover gamaes like Multiversus

[Dalesean027]

That's about it

 

[XitSign]

Feels like we reask this question a lot...

From how I've understood it, only as long as the crossover has it's own feats and plot to work with, and the characters are divergent thanks to that from their main canons.

 

[Dalesean027]

Feels like we reask this question a lot...

From how I've understood it, only as long as the crossover has it's own feats and plot to work with, and the characters are divergent thanks to that from their main canons.

Welp in terms of Multiverses it's rather weak storywise, the game had no overarching plot aside from them being transported from their worlds by currently unknown outside force and fighting across the worlds of characters involved in the seried so I'm not sure if that'd enough but there are certainly feats in the game itself and plenty of abilities

 

[Dalesean027]

I'd assume it could still work since brawlhalla has its own profiles

 

[XitSign]

The difference is that Brawlhalla has it's own original cast. We tend to be a lot stricter when it's a game that's only crossover material.

Should we be? That's up to your personal feelings on it, but that's been the general take I've gotten from what we've allowed VS rejected. I don't know much about Multiversus yet, but it seems like it might have an uphill battle to get on the Wiki currently.

 

[Dalesean027]

The difference is that Brawlhalla has it's own original cast. We tend to be a lot stricter when it's a game that's only crossover material.

That's fair although it's not 100% strictly crossover they do have right now an original fighter within the game while definitely the one standing out in a game that's otherwise almost all crossover there still is original stuff

Should we be? That's up to your personal feelings on it, but that's been the general take I've gotten from what we've allowed VS rejected. I don't know much about Multiversus yet, but it seems like it might have an uphill battle to get on the Wiki currently.

Hm alrighty then I suppose I'll let staff be the one's to determine this and see where it goes, I know shit like smash gets it hard in terms of crossover profiles so I'm well aware of how hard it is with that.

 

[XitSign]

That's fair although it's not 100% strictly crossover they do have right now an original fighter within the game while definitely the one standing out in a game that's otherwise almost all crossover there still is original stuff

I was unaware there was an original character. They should be 100% in the clear, that's one of the exceptions listed on the crossover page, so as long as they have feats to scale to I don't think anyone will object to their profile at least. It's the other characters that might be more of a debate. Depends what feats and evidence can be brought to the table.

I wish you luck and also for another crossover profile standards revision

 

[Dalesean027]

I was unaware there was an original character. They should be 100% in the clear, that's one of the exceptions listed on the crossover page, so as long as they have feats to scale to I don't think anyone will object to their profile at least.

Alright thanks for the help

It's the other characters that might be more of a debate. Depends what feats and evidence can be brought to the table.

we'll see then lol

I wish you luck and also for another crossover profile standards revision

Much appreciated and that kinda thing will need more than just me to change for sure

 

[Chariot190]

I'd say at the moment, no. But I also feel that a lot is gonna be added to the game over time and they'll probably half-ass together some type of sufficient story and plot that might end up being good enough.

You could make a profile for the original dudes tho like that green pokemon thing, original characters from cross-over games exempt from the "be different enough" rule, given they're literally OC and thus already unique.

 

[Dalesean027]

I'd say at the moment, no. But I also feel that a lot is gonna be added to the game over time and they'll probably half-ass together some type of sufficient story and plot that might end up being good enough.

You could make a profile for the original dudes tho like that green pokemon thing, original characters from cross-over games exempt from the "be different enough" rule, given they're literally OC and thus already unique.

Yeah I don't doubt it'll end up like a fortnite sorta thing with it's own fleshed out evolving story rather than just the initial story premise, lol we're literally getting Rick and Morty and lebron in the next week and on the 8th

But I can certainly start with Reindog the best feats from the game will currently likely amount to wall and small building levels but at least the characters have gotten plenty of abilities individually as well

 

[Confluctor]

Isn't it like smash Bros? In that case, probably should be fine

 

[Dalesean027]

Isn't it like smash Bros? In that case, probably should be fine

Yeah basically it's another platform fighter and alright if it's fine to do calcs and make profiles then that's great

 

[Confluctor]

I would recommend waiting a bit to see if others have issues with it. But seeing how smash (which has crossover files) is around, don't see issues with this.

 

[Dalesean027]

I would recommend waiting a bit to see if others have issues with it. But seeing how smash (which has crossover files) is around, don't see issues with this.

Yeah I'll wait for a few more staff to find this and give opinions, it may be a crossover game but it's pulling from itself when it comes to feats, abilities aside from those that are ofc iconic to characters for the most part, and it's not taking characters from like a particular point or specifc like comic, or show in a series it's just the characters in a general sense

 

[RamizDayii]

These are the problems that come to my mind for now, but of course these things do not prevent the creation of profiles. I just said what we should pay attention to. If a user wants to create profiles of a game like this, I would like him to prove that the universe to be profiled is consistent on these issues so that there is no discussion of pis and outlier in one of the two topics.
But there is a problem like this: Although we will consider these characters in a different profile specific to this game. But in the story mode, they can make a superhuman level character equal to a god-level character in order to satisfy the fans of each character. For example, Isaac vs Zeus. Although we don't use these characters in canon form, this situation is something like a 5 year old kid fighting with Prime Mike Tyson.
These are the problems that come to my mind for now, but of course these things do not prevent the creation of profiles. I just said what we should pay attention to. If a user wants to create profiles of a game like this, I would like him to prove that the universe to be profiled is consistent on these issues so that there is no discussion of pis and outlier in one of the two topics.

 

[Dalesean027]

These are the problems that come to my mind for now, but of course these things do not prevent the creation of profiles. I just said what we should pay attention to. If a user wants to create profiles of a game like this, I would like him to prove that the universe to be profiled is consistent on these issues so that there is no discussion of pis and outlier in one of the two topics.
But there is a problem like this: Although we will consider these characters in a different profile specific to this game. But in the story mode, they can make a superhuman level character equal to a god-level character in order to satisfy the fans of each character. For example, Isaac vs Zeus. Although we don't use these characters in canon form, this situation is something like a 5 year old kid fighting with Prime Mike Tyson.
These are the problems that come to my mind for now, but of course these things do not prevent the creation of profiles. I just said what we should pay attention to. If a user wants to create profiles of a game like this, I would like him to prove that the universe to be profiled is consistent on these issues so that there is no discussion of pis and outlier in one of the two topics.

I mean as I said the story for the game is pretty bare bones and doesn't really have room for PIS and again

it may be a crossover game but it's pulling from itself when it comes to feats, abilities aside from those that are ofc iconic to characters for the most part, and it's not taking characters from like a particular point or specifc like comic, or show in a series it's just the characters in a general sense

It's not actually the kind of crossover like say spiderman ps4 fighting the comics superior spiderman in spidergeddon, these are all their own general versions of characters for the game not connected to anything specifc outside of it so there shouldn't be any problems there

But in the story mode, they can make a superhuman level character equal to a god-level character in order to satisfy the fans of each character. For example, Isaac vs Zeus. Although we don't use these characters in canon form, this situation is something like a 5 year old kid fighting with Prime Mike Tyson.

There's no worry for this as for what I've said above and that there aren't any god tier characters as far as the game goes since everyone can fight everyone and there's no further interpretation or feats that could potentially be much higher than anything than the rest of the cast it shouldn't pose a problem

 

[Dalesean027]

That said these concerns would likely require further looking at if later seasons of the game down if they do end up handling things say like fortnite with a more fleshed out season by season story and these things do come up but as of now that's not a thing

 

[RamizDayii]

I mean as I said the story for the game is pretty bare bones and doesn't really have room for PIS and again

It's not actually the kind of crossover like say spiderman ps4 fighting the comics superior spiderman in spidergeddon, these are all their own general versions of characters for the game not connected to anything specifc outside of it so there shouldn't be any problems there

There's no worry for this as for what I've said above and that there aren't any god tier characters as far as the game goes since everyone can fight everyone and there's no further interpretation or feats that could potentially be much higher than anything than the rest of the cast it shouldn't pose a problem

I've already talked about games of this genre in general, not Multiversity related. If there are no problems mentioned above, I don't see any reason for us to create Multiversity profiles. As a user above said, we already have many universes in the same theme, such as Super Smash Bros.

 

[Dalesean027]

As a user above said, we already have many universes in the same theme, such as Super Smash Bros.

Eh but in the case of smash bros as said before they have profiles, just like brawlhalla as well which even has profiles for a Rayman whose a crossover character and if I'm not meeting any issues with the stuff you said above isn't that grounds that it's acceptable to be able to create profiles rather than not?

These characters have their own scaling and abilities, that differs from their original verse versions and unlike games that are "like smash" in regards to crossovers smash is an offical title made to be taken as it is not like a unofficial fan crossover project or Multiversus should be no different as an official title? If anything that makes it more valid

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Onesided crossovers officially take place within one continuity, but not the other. Given that some characters may be parodies of their original counterparts, they could potentially get a separate profile scaling from the other verse based on their importance to the story.

One example is the version of Dante in Shin Megami Tensei, who is based on his Devil May Cry counterpart, with the same name and appearance, but a slightly altered story to fit in more with the Shin Megami Tensei verse. However, the character in question may not be used to scale to the Devil May Cry cast.

4) Franchises which contain non-canonical spin-offs/movies/videogames, et cetera, each with their own continuities and feats, yet not to the extent that Marvel and DC Comics do, should only be allowed profiles for notable original characters from said spin-offs, and not alternate versions of canonical characters, unless they are very prominent and notable.

The characters in Multiversus are not distinct enough to warrant giving them a separate profile. Shaggy receiving supernatural powers upon entering the battlefield or the Iron Giant aspiring to be like Superman is not enough to consider them radically altered and distinguished versions of their original versions.

The only character in Multiversus that could warrant a page is Reindog, an original character. But even then, Reindog would fall into that stupid hole Brawlhalla is in where every character relies on one or two statements from a single paragraph of lore because the game is a party title and does not have a fully-fledged story mode like Super Smash Bros. Ultimate or the Marvel vs. Capcom series.

 

[Dalesean027]

The characters in Multiversus are not distinct enough to warrant giving them a separate profile. Shaggy receiving supernatural powers upon entering the battlefield or the Iron Giant aspiring to be like Superman is not enough to consider them radically altered and distinguished versions of their original versions

The characters literally have new abilities and hax that they're originals don't it's more than just shaggy getting some powers or iron giant aspiring to be superman

About every character in the series have abilities that alter stats or or have some other kinda hax on top of their own series iconic abilities and have their own character oriented perks that alter other shit they can do with their abilities so I'm not seeing how it's not distinct enough?

Yeah they aren't visually distinct and they're moreso general of the characters history and lorewise, aside from fitting inside the general premise of the games world, but having their own new feats and new variety of abilities and hax should warrant something.

 

[Dalesean027]

I'll just use finn as a example AP stuff aside the dude now has teleportation, several ways to perform of attack reflection, shockwave creation, durability negation, and can increase his speed several times, and create shields that negate projectiles

That's aside from specifc character altering perks and general perks that grant their own stuff

 

[Nullflowerblush]

having their own new feats and new variety of abilities and hax should warrant something

Yeah. A passing glance.

About every character in the series have abilities that alter stats or or have some other kinda hax on top of their own series iconic abilities and have their own character oriented perks that alter other shit they can do with their abilities so I'm not seeing how it's not distinct enough?

Game mechanics (i.e., perks) and additional abilities that only serve to supplement the gameplay exclusively do not make a crossover character distinct enough to warrant their own pages. This is the same reason we do not have a "Bill (Dead by Daylight)" page or pages for any character from the Super Smash Bros. series who has not had an especially prominent role in the series that characterizes them in a way that distinguishes them from their mainline counterparts.

 

[Dalesean027]

Game mechanics (i.e., perks) and additional abilities that only serve to supplement the gameplay exclusively do not make a crossover character distinct enough to warrant their own pages. This is the same reason we do not have a "Bill (Dead by Daylight)" page or pages for any character from the Super Smash Bros. series who has not had an especially prominent role in the series that characterizes them in a way that distinguishes them from their mainline counterparts.

The perks sure their actual combat abilites and gear the characters have in general can't just be explained as game mechanics

 

[Dalesean027]

I'll just use finn as a example AP stuff aside the dude now has teleportation, several ways to perform of attack reflection, shockwave creation, durability negation, and can increase his speed several times, and create shields that negate projectiles

This for example

 

[Nullflowerblush]

At their core, the characters in Multiversus are virtually identical to their mainline counterparts. Shaggy is good ol' Shaggy, through and through, even with his new abilities; Batman is the Caped Crusader and defender of Gotham City whose "dedication, willpower, and intelligence [has] helped him stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the universe’s greatest heroes"; Tom and Jerry are still wacky and zany and constantly at each other's throats, etc., etc. — do you get it?

 

[Dalesean027]

At their core, the characters in Multiversus are virtually identical to their mainline counterparts. Shaggy is good ol' Shaggy, through and through, even with his new abilities; Batman is the Caped Crusader and defender of Gotham City whose "dedication, willpower, and intelligence [has] helped him stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the universe’s greatest heroes"; Tom and Jerry are still wacky and zany and constantly at each other's throats, etc., etc. — do you get it?

That's been understood I've literally said in that sense they're generally the same as well in their backgrounds outside of how they all fit into games premise

That's then when you look at "what do they have that makes them differ from his main counterparts" things such as new abilities and skills, do they fight differently, etc.

Dude like thanos in fortnite has a profile, same with Stormbreaker and thor because they have their own feats and abilities that fit into the games they've crossed into interacting in some way with a new original world and series that has it's own original characters and scaling

 

[Dalesean027]

So far Confluctor has gave approval but I'll ask more staff to give opinins so we can get this sorted appropriately

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Playing Devil's advocate, Thanos in Fortnite isn't Thanos but a transformed version of the Looper when equipped with the Infinity Gauntlet. His abilities are based on his appearance in the MCU, but those abilities are technically attached to an original character. Stormbreaker and Captain America's Shield do not meet the same criteria, though. In that case, they should be removed.

new abilities and skills

Do they have any prominent role in anything besides gameplay? At the very least, the Infinity War and Endgame LTM in Fortnite actually had their own isolated stories, even if rather inconsequential. What does Multiversus have? The game isn't even out of closed beta yet.

 

[Dalesean027]

Playing Devil's advocate, Thanos in Fortnite isn't Thanos but a transformed version of the Looper when equipped with the Infinity Gauntlet. His abilities are based on his appearance in the MCU, but those abilities are technically attached to an original character. Stormbreaker and Captain America's Shield do not meet the same criteria, though. In that case, they should be removed.

That's fair

Do they have any prominent role in anything besides gameplay? At the very least, the Infinity War and Endgame LTM in Fortnite actually had their own isolated stories, even if rather inconsequential. What does Multiversus have? The game isn't even out of closed beta yet.

Actually yes in a way in the Cinematic trailer which gives the story premise of the game and shows the characters being taken from the world's and battling has them using the abilities we see they possess in game and plus characters do also sport character specifc dialogue in game that also supports the trailer stuff like shaggy and batman knowing each other and having dialogue there for stuff like being friends or being on a team (i forget the specifc dialogue between them) so yeah seeing how that's one of the only things giving us the story for the game's world as of right now I'd say that should atand fo something


Edit: not sure if this amounts to anything but even going to the games official website and viewing character profiles, which sources who the characters are and their first media appearance and series, shows they're some of their notable new abilities, whether that means anything since it's also listed on a source outside of gameplay I don't know but I'll mention it regardless

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Apart from Smash we also have Nicktoons profiles:

Danny Phantom (Nicktoons)

Danny Phantom is one of the main protagonist throughout all 4 Nicktoons games. He is a human-ghost hybrid superhero who protects his world from danger. In Nicktoons Unite, He is chosen by Jimmy Neutron to help the later defeat the Syndicate, a group of villains who threaten to take over the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

Hi! I finally have an account on this page, and I just wanted to comment that I personally support this idea for profiles.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Apart from Smash we also have Nicktoons profiles:

Danny Phantom (Nicktoons)

Danny Phantom is one of the main protagonist throughout all 4 Nicktoons games. He is a human-ghost hybrid superhero who protects his world from danger. In Nicktoons Unite, He is chosen by Jimmy Neutron to help the later defeat the Syndicate, a group of villains who threaten to take over the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The Nicktoons games have their own storylines as far as I'm aware though I wouldn't know the details well. I also don't know the details regarding Multiversus, so the most I can say is that character profiles should be possible if the characters in question are distinctive enough as different versions.

 

[Ayewale]

At their core, the characters in Multiversus are virtually identical to their mainline counterparts. Shaggy is good ol' Shaggy, through and through, even with his new abilities...

This is a bit of a necro but this is really, really odd. If Shaggy being effectively a god in a crossover isn't distinct enough from his original to be a profile every single crossover profile in the wiki should be blown. He's honestly one of the few characters in crossovers that's actually really different from their OGs.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

"really"
No, not really.

Shaggy has powers. That is all. If there were a story mode to supplement this, then he would have a case.

 

[Jibz]

Welp in terms of Multiverses it's rather weak storywise, the game had no overarching plot aside from them being transported from their worlds by currently unknown outside force and fighting across the worlds of characters involved in the seried so I'm not sure if that'd enough but there are certainly feats in the game itself and plenty of abilities

Fortnite does the exact same thing but i dont think we scale those characters to their comic counterparts

 

[Ayewale]

"really"
No, not really.

Shaggy has powers. That is all. If there were a story mode to supplement this, then he would have a case.

Have you played the game??

 

[Dalesean027]

"really"
No, not really.

Shaggy has powers. That is all. If there were a story mode to supplement this, then he would have a case.

There is the story Cinematic story trailer which I've already told you is referenced in the game with characters having had their own past and interactions together and even some characters from different universe's already having met before or having batman and shaggy having lines referencing events in the trailer, also as said prior it also covers some attacks you see that characters performing in their moves list in game showing that they do actually have new attacks and hax that aren't just only shown in gameplay but in the cinematic as well

 

[Nullflowerblush]

their own past

"Their own past"? Y'mean, from their original franchises?

interactions together

even some characters from different universe's already having met before or having batman and shaggy having lines referencing events in the trailer

A game trailer.

By that logic, every third party Survivor in Dead by Daylight deserves their own profile. They all come with their own unique Perks, and they all have their own unique bios. Why not give 'em a shot, too? Allowing Multiversus variants of characters onto the Wiki at the present sets an awfully lenient and completely inane precedence for what is too derivative and what is distinct enough. Does Brawlhalla Rayman get a shot next? What about Super Smash Bros.' Steve? At least Mortal Kombat guest characters get their own Arcade Mode endings.

they do actually have new attacks and hax that aren't just only shown in gameplay but in the cinematic as well

The fighters are characterized exactly as they are characterized in their original franchises, and any differences between their mainline counterpart and their Multiversus counterpart are negligible at best. Shaggy has powers based on his portrayal in memes and Velma can shout corporeal words? That is certainly an interesting way to insert the two into a combat environment!

 

[Dalesean027]

Does Brawlhalla Rayman get a shot next?

Lol yes he has his own profile

By that logic, every third party Survivor in Dead by Daylight deserves their own profile. They all come with their own unique Perks, and they all have their own unique bios.

Perks are gameplay mechanics as you've said and I've already dropped them focusing on their actual attacks and hax that are native to them in their moveset and their swappable specials

A game trailer.

Cinematic trailer which you know shows the story of a game it's literally what they're used for and it's what WB uses to give context to the game so you can't say it's not valid

The fighters are characterized exactly as they are characterized in their original franchises, and any differences between their mainline counterpart and their Multiversus counterpart are negligible at best. Shaggy has powers based on his portrayal in memes and Velma can shout corporeal words? That is certainly an interesting way to insert the two into a combat environment!

Ignoring the actual story shit and interactions, Scorpion obviously isn't original cast in injustice so using him as a means to discredit the interactions in game that call backs to thier own history in the game and trailers isn't the same as if it was Joker and Reverse flash or something since they both exist in the same story and could interact realistically in the world the game presents the DLC characters don't fit into that and none of the characters here are DLC in multiversus