Alpha/Omega *Infinite* ( DC/Vertigo comics ) tier 0 CRT

[Swanyee9t76]

After a month of research, I discovered a new character in DC that can be placed in the highest tier. "Alpha" is a short story featured in Mystery in Space (2012), published by DC Comics under the Vertigo imprint, and written by Nathan Edmondson. It is a one-shot comic that is not related to any of DC's other cosmologies.

It began with a single story about how grandpa almost passed away. When he passed away, the reality beside him warped and formed into one. When reality formed into one, an entity known as Alpha was emerged inside the nothingness. Alpha is the embodiment of everything and it's the beginning and again, he is everything and all things. Everything and all things are indulgence to break up the loneliness and burden of eternity. Both Alpha and Omega are divided by infinite to create a illusion of life and there's nothing beyond but himself. Alpha and Omega are one and It contains the rest of cosmology including himself. ( Mystery in space #full ). There are only few informations about him but however, some concepts in this comics are based on theological and philosophical analogies. Like Aristotle's theology of Primum Movens, where the god came from the place that is neither space, nor void, nor time and outside of everything. Hence whatever is there, is of such a nature as not to occupy any place, nor does time age it; nor is there any change in any of the things which lie beyond the outermost motion. In Mystery in the space comic, the concept lies the same. Alpha in his purest form exist as one where nothing beyond it including nothingness and everything.

Qualification Reasoning for Tier 0 of Infinite ( Alpha purest form ) and Requirements.

1. Primacy Qualification Requirements:

A Tier 0 cannot have anything above it, and nor can it have anything more fundamental than it. Consequently, it cannot be conditioned by anything other than its own nature (In other words, it cannot be conditioned at all).
As far as demonstration goes, it suffices to observe that "superiority" of the ordinary kind may come in a variety of ways. Firstly through physical and material things, such as mass and spacetime. Secondly, through natures and ontologies, or as it were essences, and this is the case with 1-A and above – To jump from one "level" of 1-A to another is, as it were, to shift from one essence (One ontological delimitation or set of such delimitations) to another.

Both are inapplicable to a Tier 0, as it transcends both physical multiplicity and ontological multiplicity. Since its "lack of differentiation" is not just internal, but also external, there can be nothing surpassing it, as that would imply there actually is differentiation above it, which is contradictory.

1.1 Qualification reasons for Primacy :

Alpha, in his most unadulterated and essential form, was described as boundless and everlasting, a notion affirmed by Omega. Interestingly, Omega himself, in his purest form, was deemed an illusion in relation to Alpha. Furthermore, it was unequivocally declared that Infinity was the sole and absolute entity, transcending all else, encompassing both Alpha and Omega. Nothing exists beyond it; Infinity stands as the ultimate unknowable entity, beyond which there is no further existence or concept. Ultimately, Alpha is the only oneness entity perceived by Omega as " There's only you ".

2. Unity Qualification Requirements:

Bluntly speaking, there cannot be multiple Tier 0 beings. Since it transcends all ontological divisions, it is not coherent to conceive of many Tier 0s separately existing "alongside" each other, so that one doesn't, so to speak, touch the other. This would entail that each of the beings in question is differentiated from the others by something it has, and the others don't, and vice-versa, which contradicts the premise of the tier to begin with. Since it is already not "a" being, much less can there be many beings of that same tier.

There can, however, be distinction within Tier 0 if these distinctions don't introduce a variety of essences and substances in isolation and self-exclusion from each other. For example, if there are two characters A and B, and both are one and the same being/essence/substance, not being separate from each other even in their distinction. Bear in mind that such things must be stated to be the case, or at minimum have reasonable points of inference.

2.1 Qualification reasons for Unity :

As previously mentioned in the Primacy section, Alpha, in his most distilled form, was understood as an embodiment of oneness and infinite existence, transcending all things. Despite common assertions such as 'Alpha does not know Omega' or claims that 'they are opposites,' these ideas hold no real merit. In truth, Alpha and Omega are not separate entities but are instead facets of the same ultimate essence, which manifests as the illusion of existence itself. This notion aligns seamlessly with Ultima’s analogy, where characters A and B are fundamentally one and the same, merely different expressions of the same underlying being or essence.

3. Qualification requirements for Immutability :

A Tier 0 is utterly transcendent over any system of differences, divisions and inequalities. As such, it is not capable of change. Change is nothing but the progression from one state to another, which inherently signifies a division between the states in question (That is: Being in a certain state, at the exclusion of another). If a character is genuinely mutable, that means there exist divisions and inequalities in its level of existence, and therefore it is automatically disqualified from 0. Unless the change in question is somehow illusory, not reflecting anything in reality.

As a consequence, a character cannot "become" Tier 0 in the sense of filling up a spot that wasn't there before (In other words: "There wasn't any Absolute before. Now there is"). This condition does not admit of loopholes: "This character technically came to be at Point X, but afterwards it retroactively always existed" is not an admissible way to bypass it. Naturally, then, a Tier 0 cannot have come into existence in a sequence where it first does not exist, and then exists.

However, it is possible to "become" Tier 0 in cosmologies where all beings are simply identical to the already-existing Tier 0 at the core (Usually, due to any reality apart from it being ultimately illusory). In such cases, it would not be an ordinary apotheosis so much as a "shedding" of all individuating characteristics, and therefore a return to the source.

Furthermore, due to being immutable and beyond qualities such as time, causality and other orders of events, a Tier 0 cannot do things sequentially or in reaction to something. Since even something as simple as changing its mind or its mood would be a change, such things would disqualify one from being Tier 0. From the perspective of another character, its power may have effects at differing points in time, but for the Tier 0, all of those would have always been the case, as all possible events are created to happen as such from eternity.

Bear in mind, however, that a character merely being described as taking actions is not necessarily a disqualifier for Tier 0, so long as it's made clear by background context that it is not supposed to be literally performing sequential operations from its own perspective.

3.1 Qualification reasons for Immutability :

The analogy of Alpha and Omega was based on repeating nature where Alpha, in an effort to alleviate the solitude of his infinite will, continuously creates reality and fragments a small aspect of himself to break the isolation. Each time purest form succumbs to loneliness, it willingly erases his memories, embodying himself as both the fabric of reality and reincarnating as a mortal human. This cyclical process explains Omega's remark, "This happens every time. Soon, you will remember everything," signifying that Alpha's forgetfulness is temporary and inevitable. The cycle, therefore, is destined to repeat perpetually—an eternal recurrence, reflecting the inexorable nature of existence itself, where creation and reincarnation follow a timeless, unbroken pattern. Which is unchanging nature and oneness doesn't mess with this eternal cycle but it' manifestations Alpha and Omega.


Infinity, or oneness, has never been defined as absolute in any particular moment—whether now or in the past. Rather, creation continuously manifests through Alpha, who transforms into Omega at the end, only to become creation once more in a recurring cycle. It is crucial to understand that both Alpha and Omega are described as illusions, mere reflections of oneness or infinity. They are not truly distinct but intended to represent the same underlying essence. In this context, infinity or oneness seamlessly embodies the nature of the unmoved mover—an eternal force that remains unchanged, yet gives rise to all motion and existence

The appearance of all things was meant to be an illusion of oneness where he created all of these to break the loneliness of his eternal oneness nature. Which perfectly fit with this requirement.

4. Qualification requirements for Indivisibility :

Needless to say: Division in a Tier 0 is inadmissible. There is no such thing as a "fragment" of a Tier 0 in a literal sense, and neither is there such a thing as "Half the power of a Tier 0", or anything similar. It cannot be "broken down" into more basic component parts, and neither is it possible for multiple characters to fuse in a way that the product of their powers (Even if greater than the sum of its parts) yields a Tier 0

Furthermore: While lower tiers permit a division between a character's statistics and the nature of their existence (e.g. A character can have 1-A power but be physically 3-D), such a division is not possible in a Tier 0. However, a loophole of sorts is present if a character is, in some way, fully backed up by one. For example, if a character has the full favor of a Tier 0, who blesses and empowers them to be protected from all harm. Alternatively, a character could also be an avatar, or incarnation, of a Tier 0.


To add to the above: Keep in mind that "oneness" in the context of a Tier 0 has a fairly specific meaning, which is transcendence over all differentiation and all particularity. A Tier 0 is not a blob of some mysterious energy, nor a pool of cosmic "stuff" in which all things are gathered and melted together. As such, statements of being "All-in-One," "Undifferentiated," "Indistinct," etcetera, are not automatic qualifiers without further context.

A useful illustration of this can be made by using the 1-A tier as a comparison: Take a character who is superior to all spatial things by being above space and devoid of it, which is to say it is beyond the differentiation between points in a mathematical structure. It is spatially undifferentiated, since it lacks any space to differentiate in the first place. On the other hand, a common notion in a variety of settings is the idea of the universe being created or shaped out of some indistinct "raw material" predating the ordering and structure of reality. Both are, in a sense, undifferentiated with regards to spacetime, but in very different ways, and most importantly: The former is 1-A, the latter, not necessarily so.

Thus, although a perfect reproduction of a specific philosophical account of the concept is not needed for something to qualify, it is still required that it follows the general basis of the concept: Ontop of reasonably clear indications of superiority, it should refer to a fundamental state/condition underlying reality and its divisions, in no way conditioned by it nor relative to it in any way. In this context, statements of transcendence over duality, opposition, polarity, etcetera, are of course well-received.

However, statements of omnipotence are obviously of no worth and will not grant anything in particular. Though they might be useful in order to amend certain things given the correct context.

Furthermore, a valid question that some may have is with regards to the status of apophatic theology in relation to the above. Broadly speaking, apophaticism is closely related to the mechanics of Tier 0, insofar as existing beyond all divisions and separations entails an inability to be circumscribed by any singular concept. And historically, the two concepts have also walked hand-in-hand in one way or another. However, in order to qualify for 0 through apophatics.

1. The incomprehensibility of the character must not come from a contingent limitation of a lower being's intellect, which could conceivably be overcome through some manner of evolution (e.g. The way a 4-dimensional hypercube is incomprehensible to our 3-dimensional brains), but from the fundamental nature of the character. To wit:

2. The incomprehensibility in question, obviously, must be correlated to the "power" or "magnitude" of the character. It is perfectly possible for an object to be without any properties (For a strict definition of "property") and yet not be superior to these properties at all. See bare particulars for an example in philosophy. As such, something being stated to be "unknowable," "undefinable," and similar is not grounds for Tier 0 on its own.


3. The incomprehensibility in question must be due to the character fundamentally surpassing the very qualities that would serve as the object of intellection to begin with. Therefore, the statements must not be hyperbolic statements that only serve to underscore how mighty the character is, but must be serious statements on their ontology. Refer back to the quote provided above.

Do note, however, that this transcendent nature does not mean that there cannot be true statements about such a character, but only that it is beyond the ontological features signified by such predicates, inasmuch as said features exist in the framework of dualities and differences.[note 9] In that vein, more exaggerated accounts are to be treated, as it were, as excess fat: They extend the concept into extremities that are perhaps rightly deemed absurd, but ultimately don't contradict the basic sufficient conditions for the tier.[note 10]

Finally: As seen above, a number of terms in our everyday vocabulary are, strictly speaking, misnomers when applied to such characters. However, as most writers are human beings, it would be unreasonable to assume they are always speaking in strict philosophical terms when featuring these concepts in their works. As such, mere usage of inadequate verbiage does not automatically disqualify a character, though it might, of course, need justification or amendment by the background context of the character in question, depending on the severity of the inappropriateness.

4.1 Qualification requirements for Indivisibility :

Before you proceed with reading this, please be aware that information regarding Alpha's true form, also known as "The Infinite," is extremely limited. Given that this material is derived from a one-shot comic, the details provided may be repetitive or rehashed throughout. Consequently, any insights into Alpha's true nature are likely to appear in multiple iterations, lacking the depth that might be found in more extensive narratives. Keep this in mind as you explore the available content.

- Although It never mentioned everything being half part of Infinite or something similar, Alpha and Omega was stated be an illusion of Infinite's will.

- This entity does not conform to any ontological framework, as Alpha and Omega already symbolize Nothingness and Everything, respectively. The Infinite transcends these concepts, existing beyond all things, including the very notions of nothingness and everythingness themselves. It stands as the only true existence beyond all boundaries, defying any attempt to confine it within conventional philosophical structures..

- Although it never mention infinite as " oneness " or something similar, It was stated that everything is an illusion and he is the only one that isn't bounded by illusion.

- The phrases "beyond duality" or "transcending duality" are never explicitly mentioned, yet it is clear that Alpha (in its manifestation) is described as embodying everything and nothing, simultaneously both male and female. Alpha (Manifestation) exists as a response to alleviate the eternal solitude of the Infinite, a being that transcends all known opposites. In this way, Alpha serves as both a reflection and a companion to the boundless nature of the Infinite, bridging the dualities inherent in existence.

Ultimately, Alpha represents all that exists—everything that IS—encompassing all existence and leaving nothing beyond its reach. Since Alpha embodies the totality of all that exists, there can be no "was" or "will be" outside of its domain, as it permeates every facet of existence. Alpha is within and part of everything, saturating the entire concept of being. There is nothing outside of its presence, no boundary or limit that can contain it, for Alpha is the essence of existence itself.

In conclusion :

Infinite ( Alpha's true form ) would be tier 0 and this is more than enough to count it as tier 0.

Bear in mind, this is edited crt since previous one seems to be lack of qualifications and reasons for Alpha/Omega or Infinite being tier 0.

 

[Swanyee9t76]

Bump

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

It began with a single story about how grandpa almost passed away. When he passed away, the reality beside him warped and formed into one.

"Warped and formed into One" meaning it was not "One" before, there is a change here

When reality formed into one, an entity known as Alpha was emerged inside the nothingness.

Here

• The character is depicted as having a "shape" inside a black space[nothingness], rather then encompassing that nothingness
• There is another character besides him, distinct from him in shape and features, that he does not encompass
• They both can "move"
• They both can "think" inasmuch as questioning "What is this place"[meaning he do not know everything] and the rest of the convo, this is not possible for a tier0

Alpha is the embodiment of everything and it's the beginning

Again, the fact that "Alpha" and "Omega" are distinct beings, and Alpha initially was not aware of who "Omega" is. And Omega said "It starts again", which means that "Everything" here is changing for them, but that should not be possible for a tier 0 since a tier 0 itself encompasses all of "Time", in the sense that everything is an eternally "now" for it. It "starting again" is an indication of change, however, and thus another anti-feat.

and again, he is everything and all things.

He can "Feel" things, he can feel horror and "pain", another anti-feat

Everything and all things are indulgence to break up the loneliness and burden of eternity. Both Alpha and Omega are divided by infinite to create a illusion of life and there's nothing beyond but himself.

"Divide yourself"... and again, the very depiction. Even if you argue that he truly knows everything and it is just him "forgetting" it, whether by will or not, that itself is also an anti-feat once again.

Alpha and Omega are one and It contains the rest of cosmology including himself.

A few points

• They are shown to be "joining"?
• He wants to "forget" everything...

So, in conclusion.... yeah, this has a BUNCH of anti-feats from the very scans that act as evidence of it being tier 0. I thus hard disagree. It feels like this CRT just ignored all the "it cannot be tier 0" material from the scans completely and just tried to focus on the "similarities with tier 0" stuff.

 

[Swanyee9t76]

"Warped and formed into One" meaning it was not "One" before, there is a change here

Yea nope, Omega directly said that Everything is Alpha and Alpha is Source of it. Which directly means everything emerged from Alpha and Omega also stated multiple times that Alpha is the Source of all things. [1] [2] " you are the Alpha, You are the beginning, you are the all things ".

There's a reason why I said " emerged into one " because Alpha create the reality and his small aspect to break the loneliness of his will, everytime he feels lonely, he forget everything and Alpha ( the blue guy ) formed himself as reality and reincarnate as a human. That's why Omega said " This happen everytime. Soon, you will remember everything. This essentially means that the cycle will persist indefinitely, repeating itself over and over, just as it has consistently done throughout history.

• The character is depicted as having a "shape" inside a black space[nothingness], rather then encompassing that nothingness
• There is another character besides him, distinct from him in shape and features, that he does not encompass
• They both can "move"
• They both can "think" inasmuch as questioning "What is this place"[meaning he do not know everything] and the rest of the convo, this is not possible for a tier0

Seems like there are tons of misconceptions in ur quote.

- I concur with the notion that Alpha represents 'something' rather than 'nothing.' However, the title 'Alpha/Omega' was intentional, as both Alpha and Omega—symbolized by the blue man and pink woman—are manifestations of the same true form, which is inherently nameless. When Alpha entered the void and remarked 'nothingness?', it affirmed that he still existed as 'something.' The narrative surrounding Omega reinforces this, emphasizing that " it is only nothingness until you create something. ” as soon as Alpha/Omega reincarnated and re-created reality, he confess himself that he is nothing and everything at same time. But u have to understand that, it was just a manifestation since Alpha and Omega are one and Alpha was divided by infinity which basically means the pure state/true essence > Omega/Alpha. Even Alpha/Omega him/herself represent both non-existence and existence so, the purest state of it would be deeper.

- seems like ur ignoring the last panel, it directly said they are one Omega is Alpha and Alpha is Omega and it divided from infinity to break the weight of it loneliness and Alpha/Omega does encompass all things. It stated multiple times.

- true they both can move because they formed as something which is nothing and everything.

- yea they both can think and the only one who wonder the location is Alpha but as soon as the statement confirmed that they are same with different aware divided from infinity/purest state.

Again, the fact that "Alpha" and "Omega" are distinct beings, and Alpha initially was not aware of who "Omega" is. And Omega said "It starts again", which means that "Everything" here is changing for them, but that should not be possible for a tier 0 since a tier 0 itself encompasses all of "Time", in the sense that everything is an eternally "now" for it. It "starting again" is an indication of change, however, and thus another anti-feat.

naturally yes they both aren't same but for some stuff, they are same. As, Omega represents as a reminder of Alpha when all existence become Alpha again. The last two panel disprove ur statement which Omega and Alpha being purely different, where Alpha and Omega are one. I will not elaborate about how the cycle of Omega and Alpha became again as I already elaborate before. It does encompass everything since Alpha/Omega represent as Nothing and Everything at same time and Alpha/Omega is small aspect of infinity/purest state and it directly mentioned that " There's no existence beyond you " which disqualify all of ur statements.

He can "Feel" things, he can feel horror and "pain", another anti-feat

"Divide yourself"... and again, the very depiction. Even if you argue that he truly knows everything and it is just him "forgetting" it, whether by will or not, that itself is also an anti-feat once again.

it's just some part of him since Omega doesn't feel anything like him.

Divide ur self is actually refers to how they both was divided from infinity as a form. Since the word of " You " represent as both Omega and Alpha. The point of " Forgetting " doesn't work since Alpha was forgetting himself who he was but after he realized that Omega and Alpha are already one so one side was forgetting and one side was remembering as always.

A few points

• They are shown to be "joining"?
• He wants to "forget" everything...

- no never shown anything like that and they are always one, Omega is just a other side of Alpha to remind that he was everything.

- because he want to breakup the weight of his own loneliness, it's metaphorically sense that it seems like he doesn't want to control everything with purpose, instead, he just want to enjoy essense of nature.

So, in conclusion.... yeah, this has a BUNCH of anti-feats from the very scans that act as evidence of it being tier 0. I thus hard disagree. It feels like this CRT just ignored all the "it cannot be tier 0" material from the scans completely and just tried to focus on the "similarities with tier 0" stuff.

nope and nope I don't see any anti-feats here and they are just tons of head-canons and misconceptions of your. As I already point out everything u point.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Don’t see 0 at all.

 

[Swanyee9t76]

Don’t see 0 at all.

any thought?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

any thought?

Yes, put me for disagree.

 

[Swanyee9t76]

Yes, put me for disagree.

Disagreeing with reasons would be more constructive.

 

[Swanyee9t76]

Bump

 

[Swanyee9t76]

Bump

 

[Swanyee9t76]

@Elizio33 @Ultima_Reality any thought?