Abraxas upgrade?

[Soratoum]

On this scan, you can see that Roma, Franklin and Valeria are discussing Abraxas and Eternity. They said that Eternity made sure that there is Galactus in every reality, and on this scan, you can see that the same Eternity is helpless against Abraxas and his power.

Should Abraxas be upgraded to High 1-B, like Multi-Eternity, since it was Multiversal Eternity that Abraxas fought against, and because it was Multi-Eternity, who made sure that there is Galactus in every reality, since it's impossible for universal Eternity to be that powerful?

 

[DMB_1]

I don't know, but I just want to point out that he should be renamed to "Abraxas (Marvel Comics)" since Abraxas is the name of an ancient deity which adventually transpired into the Gnoticism's Demiurge.

 

[Antvasima]

@Soratoum

Possibly yes, but you need to ask Matthew Schroeder and Sandman31 to comment here.

@DMB 1

I will check how many pages that would need to have their links to the Abraxas page updated first.

 

[Antvasima]

@DMB 1

I have fixed it. There was only one page that needed to have its link updated.

 

[Soratoum]

Alright. I just asked them.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'm fine with High 1-B Abraxas, or at least 2-A.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Would at least 2-A possibly high 1-B be a safe middle ground?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

" 2-A , possibly High 1-B " Abraxas should be good ... Or just straight up " High 1-B ". I believe a few people request tier 1 Abraxas before... So this I do not mind whatsoever.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not mind if somebody upgrades him and the Ultimate Nullifier to High 1-B.

Good explanations would be required though.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I'll dig through to find something to help with the reasoning. Wow.... High 1-B UN & Abraxas... What a time to be alive.

 

[Sandman31]

I think UN could be High 1-B

Not sure about Abraxas

 

[Antvasima]

Why one but not the other? Didn't it take the Nullifier recreating Multi-Eternity to get rid of Abraxas?

 

[Sandman31]

1) I mean that doesn't really tell us anything about his power. It could just be immortality, or the most likely explanation is because Abraxas is a part of Eternity. So you need to recreate Eternity to defeat him.

2) He needed the UN to destroy the multiverse

3) He was searching for the UN because it can kill him

4) Abraxas didn't fight Eternity

 

[Antvasima]

That is true. So what rating should we more appropriately give him?

 

[Sandman31]

Keep it as it is for now. I'll wait for the OP and Seed

 

[Soratoum]

Here. So should UN be upgraded to High 1-B on Galactus' profile? And also, if Abraxas needed UN to do all of that, he should have a different key with "High 1-B" tier on it; like this

Tier: At least 2-C (likely 2-A) | High 1-B

Key: Base | Ultimate Nullifier

Thoughts?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

So will the infinity gauntlet also be High 1B?

 

[Antvasima]

I don't know about the Gauntlet. Deflecting the Nullifier may be an outlier. Each Gauntlet only gives absolute power within a single universe, and doesn't work outside of it.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Didn`t the gauntlet power reach the beyonder realm?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I agree about the gauntlet. Although it did stomp doctor strange once

 

[Overlord775]

I don't know about the Gauntlet. Deflecting the Nullifier may be an outlier. Each Gauntlet only gives absolute power within a single universe, and doesn't work outside of it.

By that logic the Infinity Gauntlet wouldn't even be 2-A

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we can scale it from the entities it has defeated, but the Nullifier was not remotely established to be of multiversal scale back in 1992.

 

[Antvasima]

That said, it did slow down Doctor Doom empowered by the Molecule Man, so that might be scalable.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

He wasn't stated to just be a part of Eternity, he is his anti-thesis, his direct counterpart. Why would Full Eternity go through so much trouble to seal him using every iteration of Galactus across all reality if he was equal to only a Aspect of Eternity ?

@Setsuna Honestly the Infinity Gauntlet was retconned to only Universal Level. The Cosmics he fought were unfortunately retconned to only be Aspects. The only thing that was not retconned was the UN. I am also unsure about scaling to Molecule Man, but Thanos did make a remark that the IG made him a god similar to Doom, and Doom considered him using it a legitimate threat.

@Setsuna When that feat was done, The Beyonders' Realm was simply within the Negative Zone supposedly.

 

[Xantospoc]

The infinity Gaunlet seems, ridiculously enough, an High 1-B device for a mere low 2-C range.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

The infinity Gaunlet seems, ridiculously enough, an High 1-B device for a mere low 2-C range.

2A with low2C range is already ridiclous

 

[Xantospoc]

Just checked. The Beyonder Realm was affected here

http://i.imgur.com/sNbypHH.jpg

HOWEVER, There is no implication in any story I could find that the Beyond-Realm was in the Negative Zone

https://***************.to/Comic/Marvel-Two-In-One/Issue-63?id=63427

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I see.... Great. Affecting a outerversal realm.... Boi did this get complicated.

It was stated in another comic, the one involving Kubik & his fight with Beyonder.

 

[Sandman31]

Why would Full Eternity go through so much trouble to seal him using every iteration of Galactus across all reality if he was equal to only a Aspect of Eternity ?

Because of Eternity's nature and Abraxas as his Anti-thesis. Eternity has trouble dealing with his opposites like Abraxas and Mikaboshi whom he cant harm because of their nature. It doesnt always have to be power

Before you say "But Mikaboshi is High 1-B". Yeah, after he absorbed universes, the gods, satan etc.Plus he actually has a High 1-B feat

Abraxas doesnt have any High 1-B feats at all. In fact him needing the UN to destroy the multiverse makes me doubt him being High 1-B even more

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Alright then. Only the UN gets upgraded as of now until someone makes better evidence of it.... I can go with that.

 

[Soratoum]

'Tf is this?

 

[Sandman31]

I don't know about the Gauntlet. Deflecting the Nullifier may be an outlier. Each Gauntlet only gives absolute power within a single universe, and doesn't work outside of it.

Well if you're talking about the Magus deflecting the UN then there's some factors that has been overlooked. One is that the effectiveness of the Ultimate Nullifier is heavily dependent on the concentration and mind of the user, so its possible that the UN was much less effective when it was used by Quasar that when it was used by Galactus. Magus also had 5 cosmic cubes aside from the Gauntlet.

Also, there's some contradiction with the UN. The 2004 and 2006 bio of Abraxas said it only recreated the universe, Galactus 2004 bio also it only recreated the universe as well though it was stated to be capable of recreating and recreating the multiverse in the comics itself so I guess a "High 1-B" or"2-A likely High 1-B"

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the handbooks tend to be unreliable and filled with retcons, but I agree that the Nullifier is generally only treated as being able to destroy universes in the hands of anybody other than Galactus, so deflecting it shouldn't scale to the Gauntlet.

It would be good if somebody could create a profile for the Nullifier with a variable tier between Low 2-C and High 1-B depending on the user.

I also agree with you about Abraxas btw.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Are you forgetting Reed Richards used it to recreate the Multiverse & re-create Multi-Eternity ? It's literally right in Abraxas Arc.

 

[Sandman31]

Well, that doesnt really contradict what I said above that the effectiveness of UN varies depending on the concentrarion, mindset and intellect of the user.

It make sense because Reed is one of the smartest guy in Marvel

 

[Antvasima]

Again, it depends on the user and story how powerful the Nullifier has been portrayed. It is a similar situation to The Spectre.

 

[Profound_Euphoria]

Just checked. The Beyonder Realm was affected here
http://i.imgur.com/sNbypHH.jpg

HOWEVER, There is no implication in any story I could find that the Beyond-Realm was in the Negative Zone

https://***************.to/Comic/Marvel-Two-In-One/Issue-63?id=63427

Well I think the implications come from Warlock and the infinity watch (where thanos affected the beyond) comics coming out after The Beyonder's retcon where the home of the beyonders was treated as just something within the negative zone stated by the shaper of worlds (cosmic cube being)

https://imgur.com/a/MkL9MrU

Also, I don't think its right to scale the IG to the UN. First, Eternity himself knew that the affects of the IG would have done nothing to his true self.

https://imgur.com/a/ESLikBZ

Also, in the same story where Magus beat the UN with the gauntlet, he himself, got stomped by a mere fusion of eternity and infinity https://imgur.com/a/sH9csrX

I don't think Scailing the IG to that level is justified.

The UN didn't have any feats at that level in this era where people are tying to scale the IG from, which goes against what actually happened in infinity war (Magus losing to eternity/infinity) and warlock infinity watch (eternity showing the gauntlet's power would not have any affect on his true self) and practically every showing of the IG at this time

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Maybe we should have Two keys to address the retcons of the IG perhaps since it's so significant: Like we do with Post-Retcon Beyonder.

 

[Shivansh_Garg]

The gauntlet serves as an extension of will/user's belief and is limited by user's imagination. As such its power varies from one wielder to another. That said, I completely agree with Sandman's evaluation, the Ultimate Nullifier requires immense focus, especially on the target. Reed's focus was obviously far better than Wendell's

As for where they gauntlet stands, it doesn't has any established power level, but instead there would be 'Thanos with the Gauntlet' or Magus with the Gauntlet or T'Challa with the Gauntlet, etc.